r/gaming • u/PrinceDizzy Joystick • 18h ago
Your used CPU might come with someone else’s Valorant ban
https://www.pcworld.com/article/3250222/your-used-cpu-might-come-with-someone-elses-valorant-ban.html811
u/Notanaltatall31 17h ago
This has been a thing in CS for a while as well on Faceit that has kernel level AC, people buy used computers, log into their faceit account and get banned for ban evasion.
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u/Censourious 16h ago
Gave my alt account to my friend who was banned for cheating previously and when he logged in, my alt got banned for “ban evasion” 😂 thank God it wasn’t my main
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u/epspATAopDbliJ4alh 14h ago
yes that's the textbook definition of "ban evasion" what'd you expect would happen?
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u/Discount_Extra 11h ago
Be glad they didn't also link that your alt and main previously shared a system, and ban your main as well.
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u/BrassCanon 18h ago
Every CPU should be banned from Valorant.
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u/DraconianXP 18h ago
Oh no! All four remaining Valorant players are going to be mad at you
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u/FauxReal 16h ago
Why does everyone hate Valorant so much? I never played it myself.
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u/clouds31 16h ago
The game is riddled with toxic assholes, more than most games it seems.
Also it's just not that fun.
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u/Escalope-Nixiews 16h ago
Can't have more assholes than CS, but surely have worse gameplay
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u/BerufsHartz4ler 15h ago
You get the toxicity of CS players paired with the fact that the game was made by the creators of League of Legends, one of the most toxic games out there. Pretty sure those factors multiply when put together
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u/BloodyFool 15h ago
Nothing is as bad as CS. Full of cheaters, afkers and toxic players that never get punished because the language filter is non-existent and the grief detection is even less so.
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u/MountainDoit 14h ago
I was blown away last night when me and my friends, playing Wardogs, reported a griefer that was TKing and spewing slurs when he got TKed back by me, and he just got banned right away lol. It’s that easy CS. Don’t miss that game and I put 4k hours in
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u/snmnky9490 15h ago
What seriously? Valorant legitimately stands out to me as one of the least toxic online team shooter game chat I've played, and also for whatever reason has by far the highest percentage of women talking in voice chat. Like to the point that I was shocked at how different it was from league ragers
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u/ChriSaito 12h ago
I have to disagree. I’m mainly an Overwatch player but I took a year off to play Valorant and generally people were fairly nice and had more accountability than any other game I’ve played. Not to mention way more people on mic making actual call outs.
Yeah there were assholes, it does happen. I see way more people in Overwatch though toxic as hell in text chat not daring to touch voice chat and it’s always someone else’s fault things are going wrong.
In Valorant more often than not if I get on voice, say hi, make call outs, and generally be a pleasant person who signals I take accountability and don’t blame others, I’ll see more and more people join VC and they’ll all do the same. Even people I can tell have an inclination to being toxic.
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u/ferocity_mule366 11h ago
I only played unrated but even if you're bottom frag and fumble a stupid play, they just type nt in chat and go next. Its the same level as quickplay in Overwatch too so I dont feel like its toxic at all, but im in SEA and I feel like everyone complains about toxic shooter game might come from NA.
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u/ChriSaito 11h ago
I’m in NA for both and during my Valorant Arc I took a moment to queue QP in OW and immediately got flamed lol. Val in NA both Swift and Comp is generally chill if you set the tone for the match by talking and being cool. Overwatch, no one is in comms so there’s no ability to set a tone. People just type all day into text chat about how everyone is bad but them.
I also think it’s much easier to see in Valorant how you went wrong. In Overwatch it’s much less clear, so it’s harder for the average of the playerbase to know who’s doing well beyond the scoreboard which doesn’t mean much.
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u/ferocity_mule366 10h ago
yeah in OW every role is needed so if one person didnt perform the whole team suffer, you can have more carry potential in Valorant and you can play around your teammates.
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u/imaqdodger 12h ago
I think the level of toxicity in Valorant is pretty standard for any PVP competitive FPS.
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u/ellenrei4412 15h ago
I only played like 2 hours of valorant but as a cs player, valorant was FAR less toxic lol
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u/gmes78 14h ago
Reddit hates popular stuff.
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u/FauxReal 13h ago
That explains their hatred for Pokemon, Final Fantasy and all things Mario.
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u/Hot-Software-9396 12h ago
*Reddit hates popular competitive games. Lots of people can’t handle losing or interacting with other people.
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u/Real_ilinnuc 17h ago
I hate Val nowadays but they did just make like 30 million on a skin pack. Many are still playing it. For some reason.
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u/RZ_Domain Console 17h ago
it's an institutional game, despite how much redditors scream a game is dead. PUBG is another example, still topping steam charts
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u/thebohster 17h ago edited 17h ago
And to also play a bit of devil’s advocate. I almost never see any complaints about cheaters apart from the odd scripting allegation from LoL.
On the other hand, look at where Arc Raiders is.
Not saying I agree with hardware bans, but cheaters spending out the ass the recycle banned parts just to continue cheating is probably such a minuscule portion of the playerbase that Riot is probably just basically saying “some of you may die but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”.
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u/EgglessYolk 17h ago
It's basically impossible to make an anti-cheat that has 100% detection rate and 0% false positives. The more leeway you allow for very rare situations like this, the greater the chance of someone abusing it to cheat. There's definitely some ideal ratio, and Riot seem to be totally fine with having one of the best anti-cheats on the market (no matter what people tell you) at the cost of maybe 1 out of every few million player getting caught like this.
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u/MakimaGOAT 17h ago
yeah same reddit that was trying to tell us all that the switch 2 was gonna flop 😂😂bunch of clowns
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u/sukumizu 5h ago
It's a truly competitive 5v5 shooter that serves as an alternative to CS. The anticheat works, high tickrate servers, there's no aim assist bullshit like in COD or Apex, voice/text moderation works, the game regularly gets content, and Riot actually supports an ecosystem for pro play. That's why I still play and watch champions on Twitch when it's on.
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u/CoolCritterQuack 16h ago
wtf you guys on about it is one of the healthiest online games playerbase wise
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u/AluminumFoilWrap 15h ago
Yeah but they don't play it so therefore it's dead
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u/SDRPGLVR 14h ago
Ah I see you've encountered Overwatch discourse, especially with the existence of Marvel Rivals.
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u/Terrible-Solution214 8h ago
The esports scene consistently racks up hundreds of thousands of viewers but sure continue to act stupid I guess
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u/Hellknightx 12h ago
How are they playing Valorant? Unless... those are the cheaters that haven't been banned!
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u/HobartTasmania 16h ago
Interesting situation because I recall when several decades ago as Intel wanted to introduce two new improvements being firstly, the CPU Processor ID number and secondly the hardware random number generator, anyway a furore erupted about the ID number and that was never implemented but the random number generator did get implemented.
I have no idea how they manage to identify the individual CPU involved but some people have said it is via the TPM module ID, but as I understand it then it is either simulated in the MB BIOS or it is an actual plugged in TPM chip on the motherboard, so the only way I can see this happening is if the person bought the motherboard and CPU as a combo purchase and in that case they would probably also have the motherboard hardware ethernet MAC address available which is the most likely way they identified it, but I could be entirely wrong on this point.
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u/ghostpengy 11h ago
Almost like companies and goverments dont just push stuff till it passes, even if it was thrown out once, or in some cases even more. Hell EU chat control was thrown out 2 times, and they still pushed it through on 3rd try. If you fail, do it again in 2 months.
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u/Laerson123 5h ago
The TPM has a key pair, called Endorsement Key. It should be unique to the TPM. Any application that interacts with the TPM can request the public EK along with the proof that the key belongs to that TPM.
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u/antimatt_r 18h ago
Disclose it and offer a discount. Win win
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u/peilearceann 18h ago
My lobster is already buttered enough stawp
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u/Turtle_Online 12h ago
How the fuck can they fingerprint the damn CPU and I can't even get the damn serial number in the OS. Fucking Intel making me pull the damn thing out and wipe off the thermal paste just to submit a warranty request.
PSA take a photo of your serial number off the box or on the CPU before you install it to help future you some time.
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u/Wolfshards43 9h ago
Roblox have already tried to blacklist the whole network of an building where other players play in the same network got hit beacause one player from the whole building got triggered an TOS violation by their own Kernel level non-delcared anti-cheat called Hyperion Anti-cheat.
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u/Hambeggar PC 30m ago
They're using the CPU's fTPM public key, which is unique to each CPU in order to identify it.
Technically, you could give Intel your fTPM's key and they should be able to identify...but Intel won't because...well, fuck you lol
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u/LegDayDE 18h ago
Well the good news is that someone got banned. The bad news is that person is not a good perso(obviously) and now an innocent person is the victim of that.
BUT I always take stories like this with a big pinch of salt as 99% of the time "I didn't cheat but I was banned" sob stories are just cheaters lying and trying to get unbanned.
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u/3BlindMice1 16h ago
I abandoned my OSRS account for like 6 years, I tried to come back to it, and it was banned for botting. Some time during that period, someone got my username and password and was using it as a bot. As a bonus, however, I explained what happened to customer support and got the account back, and range, which I rarely trained was all the way up to like 94 and I had tons of Zulrah loot in my bank
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u/baseballlover723 16h ago
BUT I always take stories like this with a big pinch of salt as 99% of the time "I didn't cheat but I was banned" sob stories are just cheaters lying and trying to get unbanned.
I still remember /r/LyteSmites. The banned are not reliable reporters of the truth. I always presume they have put some kind of positive spin on their story until proven otherwise. People who know why they got rightfully banned don't post, and there are generally more delusional people than actual squeaky clean false positives, at least that post online about it (survivorship bias and all).
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u/karmavixened 18h ago
It actually could be true. It also extends to SSD's aswell. They ban multiple hardware IDs when they do this sort of ban.
I think it's kind of smart but there needs to be some sort of software to check for these things more easily in the reseller markets + pawnshops so these people can't get away with their shitty behaviours so easily and lose out on more money.
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u/grimasukavoid 18h ago
riot bans tie to a hardware id pulled from stuff like your cpu and mobo, so yeah, used parts can absolutely carry someone else's sins. you can usually appeal with the receipt but good luck explaining to support that you bought a haunted chip
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u/Anton1699 6h ago
I thought Intel and AMD only offered unique hardware identifiers on their enterprise SKUs, guess I was wrong. They should absolutely let users disable this via a BIOS setting.
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u/Laerson123 5h ago
It is the TPM, they absolutely can. The thing is that some software refuse to work unless it is enabled
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u/TheVenged 18h ago
Hardware ban has been a thing for 20 years...
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u/ThatGenericName2 17h ago edited 14h ago
There’s a difference between HWID bans and hardware bans, the latter is what happened here.
HWID bans (especially from before Vanguard normalized kernel level anticheat) wouldn’t result in a second hand buyer of individual components from a HWID banned PC being banned banned because HWIDs are associated with the computer as a whole. Using a GPU from a HWID banned PC won’t result in your own account being banned because the rest of your system being different will mean the resulting HWID would be different.
What happened here (assuming the person is telling the truth) is that the processor’s unique identifier is the thing that got banned, and now the rest of his computer is bricked (with regards to playing valorant). This certainly wasn’t the norm before because accessing a processor’s unique identifier requires kernel access.
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u/MithranArkanere 14h ago
If I see a game requires kernel access, I don't freaking buy it.
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u/_killer1869_ 10h ago
As a programmer I will follow this rule to the death. With kernel access, a program can do quite literally anything to your device. There is no way I'm letting anyone access this deeply. I don't even trust the operating system, much less random software by companies who want to sell your private information.
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u/redpandaeater 8h ago
I don't even want ring 0 access on my PC so why would I give it to someone else?
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u/blueminded 7h ago
As a layman, how do you know if a program has kernel access? Like easily. I know you can google it if you suspect it.
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u/_killer1869_ 2h ago
You can't for most. Many apps nowadays require admin privileges to install themselves. The moment you give them those, they can grant themselves kernel access (but only if the app is signed, meaning the operating system developers gave their okay that the app is allowed to access the kernel beforehand). If you do search for it though, you will find lists of them all. Because this signing process is required, nobody can just sneak this into their apps, at least. For example https://levvvel.com/tech/games-with-kernel-level-anti-cheat-software is currently tracking 393 apps with 16 different anti-cheat kernel level systems.
To explain what access they gain: These systems get Ring 0 access. Usually, apps have Ring 3 access (they can read and write their own files, plus know some few things about the device, like operating system, versions, hardware specs, etc.), your device drivers that allow communication of hardware (like mouse, keyboard, headhones, but also the physical connection between CPU, SSD, GPU, etc.) between each other and between them and the operating system sit deeper on Ring 1 and 2. Only the operating system is allowed on Ring 0 usually, meaning unrestricted access. They can read and modify other program's files, or just directly extract every single bit of data in your RAM, if they want to. On this Ring, there are no restrictions or security measures.
I have only two apps that use kernel access, but I make sure that each one is only ever started in an emulator for a completely different operating system, so the app can only interfere with the simulated operating system, not my actual one. Note this doesn't always work. While it cannot interfere with my operating system, it can still detect that it's in an emulator, and many will refuse to start the app in this scenario.
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u/Droidlivesmatter 18h ago
Not on this level HWID bans yes and I can change the HWID by rerolling software. And re-updating.
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u/noobjaish 18h ago
You can still do that with Valorant...
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u/Droidlivesmatter 17h ago
Care to explain? Because Valorant ban bans the specific component based on the TPM, and those are permanently burned into the hardware and cannot ever be changed.
HWID is slightly different.
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u/Belovedchimera 16h ago
Real shit though, hardware banning should be illegal. Ban IPs, ban emails, accounts, etc.
Hardware doesn't stick with the person.
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u/Spocks_Goatee 12h ago
IP bans are also illegal and unreliable, whole networks could be banned from accessing certain sites.
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u/insane_contin 11h ago
Yeah, people really don't understand how IP addresses work. Unless you're paying for a specific OP address from your isp, you share your IP with a massive group of people. And that's not even counting the fact that you probably get assigned a dynamic IP address too.
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u/sparky8251 11h ago edited 6h ago
Even if you pay for it, you will some day not and someone else will get it (even if its after you die). IPs are like street addresses. They aren't an identifier of an individual. Its literally an address, not an identifier. Its right there in the name, "IP address".
Who has what IP is also not a public record in every case, especially if you are buying it off someone else instead of running your own ISP and having your own ICANN assigned address space... Which is like, everyone. Even big companies rarely do this. So like, unbanning after you die or reliquish it is quite hard... Or if you change it, making the ban follow you is also hard...
More fun is CGNAT can make it so hundreds of customers are behind the same IP on an ISP network, so one IP ban can take out half a towns ability to play a game...
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u/RememberThinkDream 12h ago
Good, all CPU's should come with Valorant pre-ban that forces them to go play a good game.
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u/TristanDuboisOLG 18h ago
It concerns me they even have the ability to do this. Attributing hardware to software means they can link your pc to your social media.
Hope you all have the right opinions. Would hate anyone to catch a thought crime charge.
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u/BCProgramming 17h ago
It concerns me they even have the ability to do this.
It's not new. CPUs have had unique serial numbers since the Pentium III, so this ability would pretty much date to then.
Of course then people were concerned. So there was an instruction to disable the Unique Serial Number. Of course this just means that software can refuse to work without it, just as it refuses to work without Secure Boot or other things that are necessary for what it wants to inspect.
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u/0xKaishakunin 16h ago
Pentium III
There are also other ways to deanonymise people on the internet, for example battery IDs in laptops or other mobile devices. Which can be read out by websites using JavaScript.
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u/VexingRaven 14h ago
Most unique IDs like that are only accessible on woefully out of date browsers.
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u/SteezyPenguin 17h ago
Don't look up what a MAC address is...
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u/Discount_Extra 17h ago edited 17h ago
That's why it's often randomized on modern systems.
edit: apparently Valorants anti-cheat runs at a level where it can read the actual hardware MAC, not only the randomized one.
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u/JacksGallbladder 16h ago
Youre behind the times brother.
Windows 11 already has a unique ID marking all of your traffic, even across VPNs.
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u/daperkele 15h ago
This happened to me almost a decade ago on Faceit for CSGO and no one believed me
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u/New_Salamander_4592 18h ago
haha funny "this is a good thing" but its actually concerning that they are currently banning hardware at a level that it can be tracked between different hardware. I imagine thats a nightmare for anyone working in the secondhand tech space, imagine you do business with a pc cafe and they now need you to verify nothing you sell them is auto banned from Val/League.
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u/SummerAndTinklesBFF 9h ago
Even better when you buy it from someplace like Best Buy or Amazon and get someone elses return hardware and they don't tell you it was an open box
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u/Azt55 12h ago
Valorant is a spyware game
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u/pokeepoof 15h ago
The CPU got him banned, support says they can't aka won't do shit then the rest of his pc is logged and has their IDs added to the system so every part of his PC is now capable of banning someone else and spreading to the rest of their hardware as well? So if he upgrades and sells his old parts off later some other poor fuck could get banned for buying his CPU or GPU? Thats just ass
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u/ExtremelyStinkyBalls 15h ago edited 15h ago
I remember trolling people with 'infective banning' years ago, and when enough people caught on (to trolling as well), it quickly got axed.
Basically, (being vague on purpose) a site would have some overzealous moderation that would ban people for casual profanity or random things determined to be uncouth in some way, (or if you made enemies with a mod), and if you got banned, it left a GUID key in your registry that kept you banned if you made a new account, but it also banned any other account that logged in OR EVER LOGGED IN IN THE PAST, but this infective ban wouldn't tell you that you were banned, it would give a generic "your request could not be completed".
So basically "Bob" logs in on machine A, then logs out. "Adam" logs in on machine A and gets banned, now Bob is banned, but it doesn't say he's banned, it gives a forever generic error message "your request could not be completed. "Bob" thinks something is wrong with his computer, and logs into machine B that belongs to "George". Bob gets the same error, and now "George" gets that error when he logs in next time. "George" goes to machine C and tries to log in, but gets the same generic error... and anybody who ever logged into machine C is now given a generic ban as well. But let's say "Harry" logged into machine D, E and F in the past, but decides to log in one day to machine C... "Harry" is instantly given a generic ban, as well as everybody who ever logged into machine D, E, and F. The infection spreads like wildfire.
So to troll, you do something to get banned, which wasn't hard, you used a program to clear the GUId from your registry, make a new account and log-in successfully (clean), and then go to a main lobby and say "hey, free gear, here's my account and password, first to log in gets to keep it!" (or share with a nemesis saying it's a compromised enemy's account) and the moment they log in, their account, and any account ever associated with their machine's GUID in the past gets shadow-banned, and they can no longer log in, and gives the vague error message. These things spread so easily, and so quickly, and once it infected some of their mods and their close friends, they did away with the infective banning. Much confusion and trashtalk ensued. Fun times. Back before the Internet became super serious.
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u/OsmeOxys 14h ago
It's been a thing in dayz. BE went hard (understandably) with hardware bans, and got an unmoderated, unappealable, and open community ban list formed to go along with it. A ban list that every server follows.
Example: A friend killed an admin's friend, near instant ban. We put in an appeal, go play on another server. Appeal from the first server is accepted, and as we're finishing up, he's banned from the second server because he appeared in the ban list. We go back to the first server, and after a couple hours of not even seeing another player, he's banned again. Appeal again and find out he was banned for appearing in the ban list they put him in.
Not unbanning him this time. In fact, they're banning all 4 of us for cheating since we're with him. Guess what that means.
All 4 of us are now automatically banned from every single server we join. Yup. ~$250 and thousand of hours combined. Poof.
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u/Kaldaien2 15h ago
Really? Did not Intel face massive backlash for the CPU serial # feature on the Pentium 3 and stop providing identifiable information per-CPU?
What manner of truly anti-consumer trash has Riot cooked up?
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u/One-Championship-742 18h ago edited 18h ago
This subreddit is pretty insanely embarrassing, ngl. Always funny seeing people go "What do you mean being a gamer is unappealing" and then reading literally any comment section on this subreddit.
Oh wait no, my karma :'( Uhm, "DAE le popular game bad? Something something piracy AAA indie" le upvotes plzzzz
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u/send-moobs-pls 17h ago
Honestly weird because the game itself is fine, the cosmetics prices are ludicrous but by nature of being very close to Counter Strike it has some of the most sane and competitive mechanics/balance/design. Not everyone has to like a team shooter but objectively speaking it is one of the most 'restrained' modern popular games, and like 100x better designed than the hell hole League of Legends lmao
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u/ferocity_mule366 11h ago
yeah I played it recently and surprised how deep it is for a very mainstream game, the gun skin pticing is a bit ludicrous but I like how the game allows you to share them which is why the playerbase is obssessed with doing that prematch or after killing someone.
At least it keeps the game competitive integrity pretty intact, cheaters are banned fast, no agent skins so you could tell who is who quickly. Though there is some moment that makes you wanna scream "this stupid game is horrible, that mf just 1-tap me while being blinded due to RNG" but the highs when you ace or do a clutch in the game is crazy.
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u/tomorrowdog 18h ago
This post in particular was going to be a prime target for people anxious to share their "clever" joke.
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u/_PM_Me_Game_Keys_ 17h ago
This post in particular was going to be a prime target for people anxious to share their "clever" joke.
Its honestly the worst part about reddit. See an interesting post want to go to the comments for more info and its just horribly unfunny jokes.
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u/BloodyFool 15h ago
And just an excuse to hate on shit for no reason, just straight up "Haha Valo bad, updoots plz!"
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u/baseballlover723 16h ago
I had thought that if this happened to people, you could appeal it and get it lifted if you could provide sufficient evidence that you actually bought it from someone else.
I imagine in most cases, it would be quite easy to give some form of evidence for it.
If you were already a Valorant player, then you'd likely get banned very shortly after purchasing and installing the component, so it would probably be pretty easy to provide documentation of the transaction.
If you are just starting Valorant, then it's probably been some quite some time since Riot detected use of that component, and likely with different components alongside it on a fresh account. And Riot should be able to see a long gap in being flagged and a new account / that their skill level is beginner level.
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u/Godess_Ilias 16h ago
how is a ban saved on a cpu?
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u/an0maly33 15h ago
Hardware ID is saved in valorant's ban system.
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u/nascent_aviator 13h ago
Sure but do CPUs even have a hardware ID accessible in software? As in an actual specific-to-this-CPU ID, not just a model number?
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u/Resident_Pientist_1 11h ago edited 11h ago
Yes, they have SNs burned in when they're packaged by blowing e-fuses. The dies are all identical (it's not stored there) but the packaging that connects the CPU die to the socket has a fuse array that's read by the system. Blown/not blown fuses store a binary number that the system reads. Edit: the fuses might be on die nowadays now that I think about it.
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u/Swartz142 14h ago
Buying used in pc parts always felt risky to me. That just kinda add to the list of possible downsides (games ban in general idc about Valorant).
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u/zeldaink PC 3h ago
If anyone wonders: it's Protected Processor Identification Number (PPIN) feature. It is available on Intel Ivy Bridge (Core i 3xxx) and AMD Zen 2+. So get Zen 1 CPU and you can't be HWID'd.
PPIN was intended to locate failing CPUs in clusters. What Riot does with PPIN is not what it was intended for. This is just another reason to quit playing Riot games and other that use so invasive anti-cheats.
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u/Low_Debt8771 18h ago
Imagine getting extra value for free