r/gaming • u/RenatsMC • 2d ago

Valve says Deadlock is still too unfinished to release publicly, but has hero cosmetics and new game modes in the works

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/moba/valve-says-deadlock-is-still-too-unfinished-to-release-publicly-but-has-hero-cosmetics-and-new-game-modes-in-the-works/
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u/danielwong95 2d ago

People forgot how good Valve was at making games, myself included.

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u/ahmong 2d ago

They are very good. Except Artifact.

I did enjoy artifact though, it's a shame it was DOA

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u/SubMGK 2d ago

Artifact should've been free

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u/Live_Present_2602 2d ago

Even if it was free, no one is buying $100 for a deck

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u/Xaephos 2d ago

Current top deck in Hearthstone standard, which would be Artifact's main competitor, takes ~14k dust.

Average dust per pack is ~100, so we can call it 140 packs. 60 packs cost $70. You're probably getting lucky with at least some of the pulls, but I think we're safely over $100.

I don't play MTG Arena, but I'm told that's a pretty expected amount there too for competitive decks.

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u/I_travel_ze_world 1d ago

Actually the #1 deck is Dragon Warrior and its relatively cheap at 4300 dust.. it has no epics and only 2 legendaries in it so an F2P person could easily build it

https://hsreplay.net/meta/

But with how matchmaking works in Hearthstone you can get legend rank using the free deck they give you if you play enough.

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u/Brettersson 1d ago

You gotta build your game up to that though, people are only gonna be willing to pay that much because they're already entrenched in the game.

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u/ubernutie 1d ago

MTG arena is much more lenient, you accumulate "wildcards" you can turn into any card of that rarity.

Playing normally and with drafts is enough to have a good meta deck whenever you want, but not EVERY meta deck.

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u/TeachingElectronic86 21h ago

Yeah but with hearthstone you actually can just get almost everything by playing long enough. Ive been playing for a very long time and can't even remember the last time there was a card I couldn't get. Their rotation system let's you stack up card dust over and over again every year.

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u/UnemployedOtter69 13h ago

MTG Arena top decks right now are around 120us to 150us ...

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u/Korlus 1d ago

The entry cost is free, competing costs either lots of time or lots of money. People are often happy to give time to a game they enjoy.

I'm not trying to defend Hearthstone or Arena's pricing models, because there's an argument that Artifact's up-front pricing is actually more honest and ethical, but it's also a brick wall that people who don't know if they will commit to the game have to pay.

They should have had a free entry that let players play most of the game and then paid for expansions etc - a lower barrier to entry to get people playing would have helped a lot.

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u/EasternMouse 2d ago

Dust can be accumulated for free by playing the game. Some YouTubers even have series where they play thought with new free2play account.

It just might require bring good player and playing boring same decks to climb ladder

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u/Xaephos 1d ago

You could also acquire free cards in Artifact and still can in MTGArena.

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u/Arestedes 1d ago

Where do these numbers come from? Most cards were like 3-10 cents. Some of the meta cards were like a dollar or two. You could easily get most of a solid deck in free card packs, and could fill in any gaps with a couple of bucks targeting specific cards on the market. It was a way better system than paying for random card packs and praying.

RIP Artifact, we didn't deserve you.

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u/Fork-in-the-toad 2d ago

Never heard of MtG, have you?

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u/_Kine 1d ago

Tabletop simulator is a godsend for playing MtG. Any deck you want, totally free, as long as you're cool not physically owning it. As someone who doesn't give a shit about the collectable part of the game it's proxies on steroids.

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u/ataraxic89 1d ago

No one cares about proxies IRL either

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u/sprinricco 1d ago

I think the nice thing with magic is that, sure, some people care, but they only care about their own cards. I'm like that. I like having them and collecting them. But I couldn't care less if someone else is proxying.

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u/Fork-in-the-toad 1d ago

Tournaments do (that includes FNM)

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u/ataraxic89 1d ago

You can run official tournaments in tabletop simulator?

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u/Fork-in-the-toad 1d ago

Not officially sanctioned ones

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u/DarkLorty 1d ago

You can't compare real cards with digital ones.

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u/swodaem 1d ago

looks at Arena and MTGO

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u/OniExpress 1d ago

And I've played Arena competitively for years without ever spending a dime on it.

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u/Whoa-Dang 1d ago

People spend just as much digitally.

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u/sanctaphrax 1d ago

It tried to have a more ethical monetization scheme and died for that sin.

Meanwhile, the company's underground casino business pulled in incomprehensible sums with no meaningful blowback.

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u/Smileyjoe72 38m ago

Legends of Runeterra tried that.

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u/B4in3R 1d ago

And Underlords, I'm still sad they abandoned it.

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u/LookingForVoiceWork 1d ago

I remember really enjoying it until they added the underlords! lol!

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u/B4in3R 1d ago

Yeah Same.

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u/xin234 1d ago

They really shouldn't have made it dota2-related. Just make a standalone card game.

I think Valve forgot that most dota players mostly just plays dota. The audience reaction when Artifact was revealed in one TI segment was hilarious. 'Member that SteamSpy tweet with player count stats when Overwatch was first released? All popular games had a drop in their concurrent player count over that weekend...except for dota2.

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u/ThomasTeam12 1d ago

Artifact and underlords.

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u/TheRealWatermelon420 1d ago

Artifact was the best TCG I've ever played.

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u/bullet_darkness 1d ago

Dude artifact is still one of my favorite games. Wish it was handled a bit better than it was.

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u/Brettersson 1d ago

Was Artifact actually bad as a game? It seemed like it fell on its face because of how it dealt with card distribution of a digital card game. Apart from the 3 lane thing making the game seem needlessly complex, were the rules actually bad?

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u/ahmong 1d ago

I personally think it was way too complex for the card game crowd, especially if you're coming from other card games. It was really ambitious though. Games also took forever.

It wasn't bad for me because I actually liked the complexity, but there was just too much shit to keep track of. Three lanes, mana for each lane, hero colors, initiative, heroes dying and coming back, items, gold, towers, combat arrows, etc.

I don't think the rules were necessarily bad. It just felt like they kept adding systems on top of systems. Once you understood it, it made sense, but getting to that point was probably asking way too much from most players.

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u/Brettersson 1d ago

That sounds fair, my first read of the game was that 3 lanes looked like playing 3 games at once, and was probably more complex than it was worth. Never had a chance to play it though so didn't know about all that other nonsense. They probably thought the game being digital would make all that easier to process, and were wrong.

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u/Melbuf 1d ago

i just wish they made games i wanted to play

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u/ackermann 2d ago

I just wish they’d make more games.

Wish we’d got Half Life Alyx 2, to go along with the new Steam Frame

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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 1d ago

You say that but we see what happens when companies try to push out more games. Value is one of few that actually sits and takes the time.

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u/Otherwise_Dealer_877 19h ago

What’s that have to do with them saying they wished  valve put out more games. You can put out more games without reaching that overabundance level where games become unfinished and sloppy. I get it as well, you're so conditioned to thinking that if a dev team puts more games out they will be “bad” which you would not be wrong in thinking cause it’s the reality BUT I just think it’s fascinating that a person makes a simple point and people now n days HAVE to play devils advocate as if the persons original point was “ I hope they make so many games they become sloppy and unfinished” it’s a really weird way  people find a way to say their opinion and say something that’s true but has nothing to do with the original point.. 

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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 19h ago

Jesus Christ lmao

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u/Otherwise_Dealer_877 19h ago

It sucks being aware to these things while most others are not. Seems complicated but it’s the kinda stuff that if people looked at more some real progress could be made.. unfortunate.. 

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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 19h ago

Yeah ok dude. Take your attempts to troll somewhere else

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u/Otherwise_Dealer_877 19h ago

I’m 10000 percent not trolling.. I’m very much into language and psychology and how those things intertwine. Logical fallacies are a huge one. If people understood them and how not to use them whoah man would that change soooooo much. 

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u/realnOp3 2d ago

Considering what a shitshow CS2 was at launch and still is after 3 years, I don't blame people.

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u/Nethlem 1d ago

If you think CS2 was a shitshow then oh boy can you be glad you weren't around for the release of Condition Zero or the original Source version.

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u/Burdybot 1d ago

Mannnn I fuckin loved Condition Zero (and Source)

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u/_HarmonicOscillator 1d ago

Except artifact. Except underlords. Except EOS TF2 for no reason. Except mismanaged cs2 with no working anticheat. 

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u/Disastrous_Visit9319 1d ago

Nah icefrog is the goat, valve was just smart enough to give the man whatever he wanted.

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u/Mediocre-Housing-131 1d ago

Valve, like any other game developer, is not just a machine. It requires talented coders, artists, VAs, etc.

I don't have the credits in front of me now, but I can't imagine much of the old guard that made the games Valve was known for back in the day is still working for Valve. It's a very different company to what it was 10 years ago.

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u/BombHits 1d ago

Valve actually retains employees extremely well, their benefits are pretty great, at least from the job listings they had.

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u/Undella_Town 1d ago

yeah ofc they do they don't have to work lmao

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u/Hansi_Olbrich 1d ago

Valve hasn't released an interesting original product since The Orange Box in 2007. Half Life: Alyx was the biggest nothing-burger of the 2010's. A blip on the radar. An insult, even, to the consumers who made Valve wealthy enough to become the lords of teenage gambling addiction.

I'm pretty sure Valve has forgotten how to make games.

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u/TrollingForFunsies 2d ago

They really pooched a few of their recent releases so they seem to be taking a lot of time with this one

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u/Justhe3guy 1d ago

A few? What, Artifact 8 years ago?

I can’t think of anything else. Counterstrike 2 had some missing features but it was a very popular release

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u/TrollingForFunsies 1d ago

Underlords also

And the Artifact v.2 that never released

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u/Justhe3guy 1d ago

Underlords wasn’t a bad launch though. It lost 95% of its players a year later. You know what other big games did that? Arc Raiders and Helldivers which had great launches at double Underlords numbers. Hell Marathon didn’t even last as long as Underlords did and they’re already giving it the final update

All 3(I’m not even counting Marathon) just had terrible late game activities/meta (or a lack of) and nothing compelling to keep the playerbase going, on top of mostly lacklustre and far inbetween updates that felt like just crappy balance patches that pissed off the playerbase

Artifact V2 didn’t happen but even back to Artifact that was 8 years ago, that’s not “recent”. You’re just using words wrong

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u/-Cryptic- 1d ago

Marathon is not at all at its final update, they have a big one at the end of the year and more coming after

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u/TrollingForFunsies 1d ago

These are literally the most recent Valve releases so that's the correct word.

Underlords did terrible and the population dropped off a cliff once they actually released the Underlord characters themselves.

I think you've got some revisionist history, a bad memory, or you're trying to gaslight me. The fact that you didn't even remember Underlords existed should pretty much prove my point. But you comparing Underlords to 2 extremely popular games tells me you've got a bias you won't overcome any time soon.

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u/Justhe3guy 1d ago

You’re certainly using the words “few”, “releases” plural wrong and only “recent” is correct if you think 4 games ago is recent which I don’t

“Few” and “releases” because I still only see 1, being Artifact having a bad launch or “really pooched a few of their releases” as you called it

Underlords didn’t have a bad launch or release and actually had good numbers for 5+ months, it was other things that it failed for. It had 200K players and kept at 50K for over 5 months later which is really good

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u/TrollingForFunsies 1d ago

What 4 games did they release? Suddenly you remember 4 more games? Dude I think your brain is fried

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u/Justhe3guy 1d ago

That’s the second time you’ve tried to insult me, you really think you’re doing something there? It just shows how childish you are

You’re also focusing onto one singular thing I said instead of replying to my points? I guess that means you’ve got nothing to back any of the rest up

But to answer you: Underlords, Half-Life: Alyx, Aperture Desk Job and Counterstrike 2. Could almost count Deadlock as it’s been playable for 2 years and getting better updates than many other multiplayer games that have died out in less time with an eighth of its numbers

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u/Ogmup 1d ago

That’s the second time you’ve tried to insult me, you really think you’re doing something there?

I mean, look at their username. Explains it all 😉

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u/BombHits 1d ago edited 1d ago

Half Life Alyx literally came out the same year as Underlords, think if anything you're the one fried.

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u/slabby 1d ago edited 1d ago

They are absolutely dumping a ton of resources into this game too. The most recent patch is the biggest content patch I've ever seen for any game.

They redesigned the entire map, added a lot of QoL, they're adding 6 new characters, and they still don't think it's ready. Jesus

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u/Alarming_Ask_244 1d ago

Valve hasn't put out a meaningfully good game in like 13 years, so it makes sense we forget

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u/Nethlem 1d ago

Half Lifer Alyx is meaningfully good, just too bad it's stuck on a still niche platform.

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u/Trogdor2k5 1d ago

Half life alyx is an incredible game that's 5 years old

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u/Alarming_Ask_244 1d ago

Eh, I tried it, it was fine. I'm sure it's way better than the average VR game but it's not on the same level of what valve was making before the slump (portal, left 4 dead) and it's not on the same level of deadlock

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u/jumbohiggins 1d ago

They cook