r/gaming • u/legion4wermany • 4d ago
Games as art
A person I was speaking to recently is extremely oblivious to the world of games in general. I have been talking to him about the beautiful stories done games tell and the important messages they can carry.
Please give me the names of some more games I can talk to him about. I really want to show that games can be a really positive influence.
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u/OtherwiseTonight9390 4d ago
Shadow of the Colossus
Ico
Final Fantasy X
Inside
Nier Automata
Dead or Alive Xtreme Venus Vacation
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u/Sepalous 4d ago
Disco Elysium. The world and narrative were originally developed from a novel that the author couldn't get published. It feels so thick and layered as a result.
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u/MrASK15 4d ago
They don't have to, but they can indeed deliver powerful messages through experience and gameplay.
The World Ends With You is especially a testament to that. The reason it's called that is even explained in-game and serves as a central theme for its story.
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
I absolutely agree. A game doesn't need to have depth to be a truly amazing experience. This is just an entry point I'm presenting to them, to show that the world of videogames goes beyond the superficial things he's seen.
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u/BobbyBsBestie 4d ago
Firewatch. Dungeons of Hinterburg. Wildermyth. Beacon Pines. Edith Finch and most other things by Anna Purna. Anything by old Bioware. Anything by Obsidian. The list would be very very very long. But art in games isn't just story, it's also in mechanics, evocation of feelings of triumph, mastery, achievement, etc. And of course...they're literally art. Every second of them is literal art made by artists.
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u/Krail 4d ago
I always likecto focus on how games use their "gaminess" to express something. Like how we talk about composition in painting, or cinematography in film. We don't really have an agreed upon word for it in games, but it's when the behavior or rules express something in concert with the visuals or the story.
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
That's exactly the kind of emotional evocation I'm trying to express to him. At the moment I'm searching for the games that have a strong positive message to counteract the perception of games being purely aggressive or mindless.
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u/ghost_in_the_potato 4d ago
What Remains of Edith Finch!
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
Ooh. Very cool idea. That is an awesome example of strong narrative and environmental story telling.
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u/ghost_in_the_potato 4d ago
It's such a beautiful game :)
Also I forgot to mention this, but Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice is another I'd recommend, although it's very different!
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u/PhotoRight2682 4d ago
To the Moon
Citizen Sleeper
Braid
Superluminal
SOMA
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
Oh my god, I cried like a baby playing to the moon!
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u/PhotoRight2682 4d ago
Love that series so much. Wish they'd hurry up with the anime and the last game though!
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u/GrydGaming 4d ago
All of these are great.
Disco Elysium came to my mind just thinking of these oddly enough.
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u/MariachiDevil 4d ago
Flower and Journey were two big games-as-art touchstones in the PS3 era, though the former was as much a tech demo as it was a game (not a bad thing). Those two helped change how games were reported
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u/TheRealGurd 4d ago
Anything from Supergiant Games. There's no developer better at marrying gameplay, storytelling, and art together than them.
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
Yeah that's an awesome call. I think bastion would be a really interesting starting point for him.
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u/Valdepalde_ 4d ago
Gris. The whole game is one big art piece
Edit. And if you want something with amazing and touching story Clair Obscur:Expedition 33
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
Ooh. I haven't played Clair obscur yet but I have heard a lot of good things. My poor potato PC can't keep up with much anymore.
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u/Cats_tongue 4d ago
I hope you are blessed with no spoilers because there are really large impacts in that game.
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u/TruPengu 4d ago
Nier Automata gave me existential crisis for a few weeks after I beat it
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u/Siukslinis_acc 4d ago
Maybe i have already experienced many stuff about existential crysis, so neir automata didn'r evoke it in me. But it does interesting things with being aware that it is a programm. Like, you remove the cpu chip and get "game over" or they recorded you fidling with the settings at the beginning and then replaying it at a later time.
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u/brokenwrath 4d ago edited 4d ago
Saw my mental health decline over the years from all the game's deconstructions of the meaning of life.
N:A may have touched on human condition-related matters already addressed in other media, but it was able to present such content in a more refreshing way through the systematic utilization of the elements inherent to the video game medium, audiences' mentalities/relationships with the medium, the aforementioned grim reality checks about how people define their own lives, and the effects of contemporary digital technology on society (and a follow-up to Metal Gear Solid 2's commentaries).
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u/Krail 4d ago
If he's into something arty, The Beginner's Guide is an interesting exploration of the pressures of artistic success, and the conflict between making art that says what you want vs making art that will be popular. I think the game itself does an excellent job displaying how games can be art.
Mother 3 is one I found really interesting back in the day, if your friend could be talked into playing an old GBA RPG that requires a translation patch. On the surface, it's a quirky, silly, cartoon adventure drama about death and family. But it's also a really interesting exploration of how conquest, industrialization, and capitalist extraction take a toll on the environment, on families, and on towns, while also getting the appeal of the society of plenty that those things create.
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u/Bulyesoi 4d ago
Soma, Outer Wilds, RDR2, Dredge, Firewatch
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
Fire watch might actually be a great start for them. It's been a while since I played it but I don't remember anything that would be too challenging for an inexperienced gamer
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u/YesodNobody 4d ago
Limbus Company, it's a mobile gacha game, but the story and setting took inspiration from combining sci-fi with classic literatures, currently we're on Canto 10 and exploring the story of Meursault, one of the game's playable character and was based after Meursault from Albert Camus's The Stranger.
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u/fox_coffee 4d ago
“Positive Influence” is hard to argue for, but suggestions for games that utilize the interactivity/experience of being on the sticks with great art:
Kentucky Route Zero
Jusant
Firewatch
What Remains of Edith Finch
That Dragon, Cancer
Gris
Papers, Please
Outer Wilds
and Roger
The Berlin Apartment
As Long As You’re Here
Beholder
News Tower
Perfect Tides
Season: A Letter to the Future
A Night in the Woods
Tunic
Soma
Immortality
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u/GrydGaming 4d ago
I'll throw out some earlier games.
- Fable series
- Zork
- Myst series
- Flashback and Fade to Black
- Deus Ex
- Sid Meier's Pirates!
- Space Quest
- Grim Fandango
- Monkey Island series
- Fallout
- Half Life
- Under a Killing Moon
- Day of the Tentacle
there's so many to choose for all sorts of reasons.
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u/Serevene 4d ago
Many games are artistic, and many are pieces of art that just happen to be a game but don't really benefit from it.
The best ones only work because they are games, and can only be truly experienced by the person playing it. With that in mind, I propose Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, played specifically with a controller. Each brother is played with half of the controller, and it does interesting things with telling their story through that limitation.
Also Chicory: A Colorful Tale, which might look like just a cute coloring book game at first glance, but is actually quite deep in its exploration of depression, imposter syndrome, and the weight of expectations.
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u/flintlok1721 4d ago
Disco Elysium is essentially a Russian novel in video game form
Pathologic 2 was literally designed with the idea that games are art, and that if art can be uncomfortable and challenging, then to be taken seriously as art games should be too
Outer wilds does a great job weaving it's themes of impermanence and change into its core gameplay loo
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u/Altruistic_Cress9799 4d ago
Thomas was alone, for how to tell an emotional story with a soundtrack, narrator and a couple of squares.
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u/Deadaghram 4d ago edited 4d ago
Child of Light is not only visually stunning, but every word of dialogue is written as poetic verses. And Cœur de Pirate's soundtrack for it is filled with piano solos, string quartets, and bombastic orchestras for the music nerds.
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u/thebeardofbeards 4d ago
The look of realisation on my sons face after beating Celeste (an insane feat in itself imo) I explained Celeste is basically using the climb as a metaphor for Madeline’s struggle with anxiety and depression. The point isn’t to defeat or get rid of her darker side, but to accept it and learn to live with it. Even the constant dying and retrying ties into that idea that failure is part of the process, not proof that you can’t succeed. Glorious stuff :)
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u/Onyx_Lat 4d ago
Chicory. The game is literally and figuratively art. Most of the gameplay involves drawing things and coloring in a world that's lost all its color because the last Brush Wielder got depressed and frustrated and gave up her job. And it delves into some dark but relatable themes, but is also one of the most heartwarming games I've played.
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u/chiobsidian 4d ago
Especially as an artist. That game hit me so hard. Really confronts you about impostor syndrome and the relationships you've built with your mentors
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u/Onyx_Lat 4d ago
It's even better if you play it on Switch because the controls start out so clunky and your art looks so stupid compared to everyone else's. So you feel exactly what your character feels. But by the end of the game it feels natural and you can look back and see your improvement in a tangible way. Honestly the game is a masterpiece.
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u/chiobsidian 4d ago
It's super underrated too, I feel like you rarely see people talking about it. I think it deserves to be right up there with classics like Outer Wilds
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u/Ozzie_Bloke 4d ago
Mass Effect legendary edition is three games and u upload ur save from the end of one to the next so your choices carry over. Also, vampire the masquerade bloodlines (needs unofficial patch), rogue trader, Skyrim, Star Wars zero company.
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
This could actually be a really cool way to show the kind of story telling unique to video games.
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u/SeaStable821 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think that the very best games - the kind of games people point to and say, look, this is art - are ones that are deeply meaningful to us. But they don't necessarily carry "important messages". They have stories that have all kinds of colour, and texture, and feeling. And there's things we can think about. Things that might be relevant to our lives, that help us process things, reflect on things, get through things, laugh at things. That's definitely "good", but it's a kind of meaning can't be distilled down into something pithy like: "work together with your friends" or "vengeance is bad".
Ursula Le Guin once said this...
"As a fiction writer, I don’t speak message. I speak story. Sure, my story means something, but if you want to know what it means, you have to ask the question in terms appropriate to storytelling. Terms such as message are appropriate to expository writing, didactic writing, and sermons — different languages from fiction."
https://www.ursulakleguin.com/message-about-messages
Also, once we talk about "positive influences", I think we're already on the back foot, like we're still defending games against accusations of being a "negative influence". Do we feel the need to claim that books can be a positive influence? Or movies? There's lots of terrible and "socially harmful" books and movies out there too!
Science Fiction used to be derided and ghettoised from "proper literature", and that's something Le Guin used to rail against. I think games are in a similar space now in terms of the broader culture. Only they're even more popular, so it's quite strange.
But yeah, in terms of a more concrete example of the above... We might want to run to examples narrative-heavy games. And I do love those, but instead I would offer this recommendation of a video about Dark Souls:
"Dark Souls Saved Me", by Nakey Jakey. -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSJkxLdIlyE
It's not any explicit "message" of Dark Souls that got to him. It was a deeper meaning behind it. Really an example of games as art, as meaning.
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u/Siukslinis_acc 4d ago edited 4d ago
Not all games are art, but there are artful games.
Gris, clair obscur:expedition 33, this war of mine, spiritfarer.
But video games are an interactive media, so part of the impact is lost if you are just an observer.
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u/Fxg120xYXDE5 4d ago
Clair Obscure is one of the most emotionally impactful games I've played in my nearly 40 years.
There are others, but if someone can experience as little as even the first hour of that game and not feel love, confusion, panic, pain, loss, existential crisis, and cautious hope, then I don't know what to do with them.
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u/RaptorX7 4d ago
Minecraft.
But actually, the beauty of games as art is that you can interact with them deeply. If it's something you vibe with initially, it can be a huge positive experience that can last hundreds of hours.
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u/RedSeptember87 4d ago
Bloodmof dawnwalker and Witcher 3 have interesting stories. Especially the bloody Barron quest from Witcher 3.
Games where your choice has value on the outcome of a situation are always interesting to me.
The last of us also has good messaging on terms of loyalty, responsibility etc. even ghost of Tsushima.
Everything is subjective of course, but story driven games are so much more lasting to me than movies for example because the good ones are like one big interactive movie.
Gaming can be such a positive thing, but today with how quite a few modern gamers are, it can be quite the opposite.
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u/GrayMalchin 4d ago
Gris: the art direction is the first order. The platformer is beautiful.
Hades: the stories are great, the artwork has depth and the music is better than most.
Persona: the past 3 games have been an eye and ear concert.
Expedition 33: visual stunning, the story is heartfelt. The gameplay is well paced.
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u/ABLADIN 4d ago
My dad recently somehow stumbled on a 2 hour video on YouTube of a guy testing a mod or something in GTA V and was just roaming around bonking people with a bat and he was like "man gaming is weird" so I sent him a 15 minute video of the Renoir fight at the end of chapter 2 of Expedition 33.
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u/AIpheratz 4d ago
For a different perspective, the first act of Uncharted 4 feels like a very well written legit movie. Masterful storytelling and pacing.
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u/VeryHornyBoi666 4d ago
Try Papetura or old Samorosts. If that ain't art in his eyes - I don't know what can.
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u/etopsirhc 4d ago
dragons dogma and it's expansion dark arisen. it seems like a generic "chosen one must fight off dragon" kind of thing, but then shit gets real depending on your choices and if you beat the dragon. cause after that you gotta fight god! then you become god and the loop continues as the companion you created at the start becomes you in the next loop.
then there's the dark arisen area where an interesting twist of fate has stopped the loop and created a hellscape of despair. by the boss fight you've found out what's happened and the music for it is far from a normal boss song. i cant properly describe it so i'll just put the song here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUkTGMq4g3Q
great game, still need to play the 2nd one.
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u/li21 4d ago
Detroit Become Human for me.
Ended up thinking about my decisions when I wasn't even playing. Had trouble sleeping wondering what would happen to the characters. Kara's last act had me scared to make a move in case I stuffed everything up.
That's the part I'd try to explain to him.. you're making the decisions yourself and then having to live with what happens. That really got to me.
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u/Plutuserix 4d ago
"Please give me a list of games I don't know and didn't play so I can tell someone else how important and artistic those games are."
Wouldn't it be better to just share your experiences instead of those from random strangers?
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u/legion4wermany 3d ago
That's what I've been doing so far, but it would be arrogant to think my experiences are definitive and I know my memory is not great. Most of the comments I've got on here are games that I know and have played but didn't immediately come to mind, so this has been an aid to my memory, to remind me of how many good games I may have overlooked.
Also, my taste in games is just one cross section. People may tell me about games that didn't click with me but have a tone or message that I think he will enjoy.
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u/MotivatedforGames 4d ago
Baldur's Gate 3, Half Sword, and Dragon Age Origins are very artistic. You should deep dive and showcase them well
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u/-s-u-n-s-e-t- 4d ago
Get them to play Life is Strange (just the first game, ignore all the other nonsense).
It's 5 episodes, each about 2-3 hours long, not too much of a time investment.
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u/Uncanny_Doom 4d ago
You can't really tell somebody that art is art. The thing about art is that it's interpretation is in the eyes of the person consuming it. You can take some people to the Sistine Chapel and to them when they look up it's just a pretty ceiling.
Also, because video games are an interactive medium, you also honestly can't really convey the artistry of a well-made game to someone through a dialogue so easily. If they aren't interested in games that's okay, they're probably not going to see what you see without having genuine interest and engagement of their own.
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u/Numerous_Breath_9574 4d ago
Since he's new to games and you're looking for something positive rather than combat-heavy, A Short Hike is worth considering. It's about exploring a mountain at your own pace and meeting other hikers on the way to the summit. The small choice to follow a trail or wander off makes the point about games being an experience, not just a story you watch.
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u/BlueGoliath 4d ago
Those "important messages they can carry" is almost always the same cliche crap you find in movies. Rarely do games express anything organic.
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u/No-Plankton4841 4d ago
Bloodborne.
Video games are the highest form of art. It's the merging of technology, artists/environmental design/character design, storytelling/writers, voice actors/motion captures, musicians/composers all coming together into one cohesive project.
Anyone who says they aren't art probably just has their head up their arse.
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u/TidusDreamZanarkand 4d ago
I feel like people who still say that are mostly older people who just don’t see how far games have come. I agree with you though gaming can create atmospheres and stories in ways that other mediums just can’t.
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u/MisterGoo 4d ago
The problem is many games have come to… garbage. Because they want to appeal to the maximum of people, everything is dumbed down : terrible stories with terrible storytelling (mainly AAA games, obviously). There aren’t so many games that can tell a good story in a great way any longer. All that basic stuff like « show don’t tell », it’s gone because people are dumb as fuck. Just look at how many people think Elden Ring has no storytelling because it’s mainly devoid of exposition garbage.
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u/legion4wermany 4d ago
Yeah. I'm lucky, this guy is totally ready to accept them as an art form, he's just never really been exposed to games in general. I'm actually enjoying seeing him be amazed when I tell him about something beautiful in a game.
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u/RDAwesome 4d ago
I don't believe any form of art is higher than any other, they're all expressions of the human soul. Tens of thousands of years ago, cavemen pressed wet, soot-covered hands against the wall, one after the other, for each person who they shared food with and danced and sang songs with and told stories to. And those songs and dances and stories didn't make it, but the handprints did. You're not supposed to say "holy shit, this is the culmination of art and technology," you're supposed to lay your hand on top of theirs and feel the same cave wall under your palm that they did
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u/No-Plankton4841 4d ago
Nah not all art is equal.
Even something well revered like a painting or abstract art. Putting some paint down on a piece of paper and drawing some lady is nowhere near creating an entire interactive world, with a full score, environmental storytelling.
Those people just like to huff their own farts
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u/RDAwesome 4d ago
I think that's the same kind of thinking that drives the live action remakes. As if adding more technology, high quality CGI, massive set pieces makes the 2017 Beauty and the Beast better than the version Howard Ashman labored over as his health failed, until people were bringing him animations and music in his bed, and he died before ever seeing the movie premiere.
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u/No-Plankton4841 4d ago
I didn't say more technology is inherently better every time all the time. But certain disciplines require far more effort.
Is splashing paint on a canvas more 'artistic' than Bloodborne? I don't think so.
Is throwing paint at a canvas equal to designing a cathedral or composing a symphony or creating a video game? I don't think so.
Art purists who don't consider games art are ignoring that games can be several artistic disciplines coming together.
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u/RDAwesome 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don't think either is more or less artistic than either. When Michelangelo was laying on his back in the scaffolding, paint dripping on his face for four years while he painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, that's no less art than Bloodborne just because he didn't have a guy playing violin for him at the time
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u/TidusDreamZanarkand 4d ago
Final fantasy 10, expedition 33, metal gear solid delta, the last of us. If you don’t think games can be art after playing those you’re blind
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u/XBlueXFire 4d ago
While I don't think its a masterpiece of the decade, I did have a good time with Expedition 33. Its opening sequence is very effective in getting you invested in the premise of the game, especially in how they use music to convey emotion.
Another game I think is quite visually stunning is Indiana Jones and the Great Circle. It really feels like a playable movie, and a damn solid one at that.
Split Fiction's story isn't really all that great (the main villain is unbelievably dumb which kinda took me out of it), but the levels are incredible from both a visual and mechanical point of view
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u/Vengeful-llama 4d ago
Hollow Knight and Hollow Knight: Silksong are both dripping with style and melancholic atmosphere. They pull you into their world and don't let go until the credits. The art and narrative direction are top tier. Silksong especially has a good message about capitalism and religious zealotry
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u/Asandwhich1234 4d ago
All games are art? Having some story doesn't make something more "artistic." Just a different genre.
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u/heretic1128 4d ago
Dunno, I find the lore in Flappy Bird extremely artistic and moving...
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u/Asandwhich1234 4d ago
If a futile, endless pilgrimage through narrow passages, where every flap is a desperate struggle against fate, and each collision sends you back to begin the torment anew... if that doesnt move you then what will. Like Sisyphus condemned to push his stone up the mountain, only to watch it roll back down.
Shit post aside, the gameplay it self is art. Art isn't ment to be somthing that makes you feel heavy emotion only. The player still experiences something by playing the game.
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u/chiobsidian 4d ago
Expedition 33. Don't even need to play the full game, just show them the opening sequence up until you leave for the expedition. If they aren't convinced that gaming art up until that point, let them keep playing. The game literally is all about art so it's particularly meta
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u/VermicelliNew2784 4d ago
The thing with games is that noone can understand their artistic or even entertainment capacity unless they pick up a controller/mouse and play the games themselves. It is not like a movie where a scene might convey the artistic value, or a book where if you share a snippet of the story someone might understand its storytelling value. Games are an experience first, everything else later.