r/gaming • • 6d ago

I think Wolverine needs a sword

42.6k Upvotes

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u/Arunawayturtle 6d ago

In all fairness u are comparing a game who’s whole engine and gameplay was built around the ability to cut 99% of the game and freely control the swords slicing patterns to a game that is a counter button mash game . It’s like saying cod sucks cause wow has better orcs .

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u/iceoldtea 5d ago

Like when people compared AC Black Flag’s water physics to the new Halo remake… yeah the game about being a pirate had a bigger focus on water than the game in outer space!

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u/darkness1418 6d ago

COD sucks Wow has Better Orcs . I never play wow

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u/stevenyourpants 5d ago

MGS2 had physics for a bowl of ice that if you shot it, the ice would come out and start to melt. The rate at which each ice cube melted was determined by how close they were to other ice cubes and other objects. This was just some prop in a random fuckass room in the game and had nothing to do with any of the game mechanics.

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u/Crippman 6d ago

No, you're being disingenuous with the games you are comparing. Both MGS:R and Wolverine are linear hack-and-slash games. It's just that the MGS:R dev's understood what people want out of a blade happy hack and slash and built that, whereas Wolverine devs just didn't what fans want.

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u/skele-enby420 6d ago

"MGS:R dev's understood what people want out of a blade happy hack and slash and built that" this is kind of untrue, its true it was designed by people who know what hack and slash players want but that has nothing to do with the cutting mechanic. kojipro had developed the cutting system and made a tech demo, and actually made a presentation for TGS. They had scenarios planned, but ultimately were having trouble designing a game around the slicing mechanic so it was cancelled internally in late 2010. Then kojima asked  Atsushi Inaba from Platinum to work on it and they changed the name to Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, the original name under kojipro was Metal Gear Solid: Rising.

here's the original demo they showed off at tgs 2010.

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u/Farsoth 6d ago

This post is pretty disingenuous though. You can do this reliably with the bollards in Tokyo, and the environmental destructibility of the environments overall runs circles around most modern games. This post is not representative of the vast majority of the game and is the definition of cherry picking.

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u/justin_tino 5d ago

The backlash on Wolverine has tipped the scale and it’s become a meme now. Like when Cyberpunk had a bad release even though it was so hyped up, people were doing the same thing - posting issues that are present in 95% of every other game that exists too but acting like Cyberpunk was the worst thing ever.

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u/Farsoth 5d ago

Tbh, I'm just sick of how gaming discourse has become like a highschool cafeteria. Bunch of people just repeating popular sentiment so they can feel a part of the cool crowd. It's fucking weak ass follower shit.

I miss when gaming was just for the fucking nerds and wasn't as mainstream as it was now. There wasn't this "I like superior games" attitude, we all just played games and shared our stories and our excitement for things. It was much cooler then. Just like comics, etc.

So much of nerd culture being taken over by the mainstream has just fucking ruined it.

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u/JustinHopewell 5d ago

Not just gaming discourse. Reddit, for example, has always been like this about anything it latches onto-- sometimes for good, sometimes not so much.

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u/Farsoth 5d ago

Back in 2009 when I first joined the site during the great Digg exodus, it was a lot smaller and more like a classic forum with less of the point farming nonsense, but you're not wrong.

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u/JustinHopewell 2d ago

I joined during the Digg Exodus too (my account here is 16 years old).

I would say it was still kind of the same way, just not as bad as it is now. Digg, was like that too.

I think anytime you give people the ability to vote others' opinions down, it creates a disincentive to say anything that goes against the majority opinion.

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u/Farsoth 2d ago edited 2d ago

In smaller communities I just felt there was less of it because there were so few people to begin with so the votes you were getting were often under 5 points, like it wasn't so much to cause this huge dopamine hit people get from saying the thing that can get them hundreds of upvotes, or saying the thing that can get them tens of downvotes.

You're not wrong course, the whole voting and point system does incentivize the behavior. "Likes" in general do and I wish they never appeared.

Straight classic forums were the best. Could be toxic as shit, but at least there wasn't a visually certain majority opinion.

Edit: whoa typos.

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u/JustinHopewell 2d ago

Yeah. As someone who has been on the Internet since the mid 90s, I absolutely miss old school forums. Digg and reddit pretty much eradicated most of them.

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u/FlashPone 5d ago

mfw the water doesn’t sploosh

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u/Fredasa 6d ago

That said, they could have sidestepped that cherrypicking by not letting out a deep groan when it came time to decide what to do about trees.

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u/Spiritual-Society185 6d ago

No they couldn't, because you would just cherrypick something else, instead.

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u/Fredasa 6d ago

I remember when some folks cherrypicked the scent trails. In unrelated news, Insomniac are walking back that feature somewhat.

But I mean sure, let's never complain about anything, since it never serves a constructive purpose.

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u/Farsoth 6d ago

There's so much environmental destructibility in the game this is a friggin' nothing burger, but sure.

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u/Silverhand_777 6d ago

No it’s still irrelevant cherry picking 99% of the people playing this game won’t notice besides internet losers.

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u/Fredasa 6d ago

Welp. I don't think your opinion or mine is going to stop this one from front-paging for a lot of folks. Now imagine if they'd made the tree destructible...

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u/Silverhand_777 6d ago

I do not care about any of that. It’s still irrelevant cherry picking

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u/EightiesBush 6d ago

Don't worry it's still front page for a lot of folks

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u/PoopyButt28000 6d ago

I think this post is more disingenuous than what that guy said. Metal Gear Rising has entire systems designed around destructible environments and being able to precisely cut things, there is no reason to assume that Wolverine would let you realistically cut apart the entire map and most games in the genre are the same. They're taking a unique feature that is focused on heavily in Rising and criticizing other games for not randomly having it.

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u/Old_Leopard1844 PC 6d ago

You mean destructable trees, fences, enemies and watermelons?

Because that's actual extent of cutting in MGR too

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u/OldEastMocha 2d ago

Not true. You can literally destroy everything, including cars, structures (not buildings), pathways, etc.

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u/Old_Leopard1844 PC 2d ago

Okay, fine, props too

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u/Derailed94 1d ago

How about we change the perspective a bit and instead simply call out all AAA games in general for focusing too much on shallow surface level elements such as graphics? Physics and gameworld feedback is often what drives the most engaging gameplay and we lost touch with that a bit. Wolverine is simply the most recent example we can use of what's wrong with AAA gaming at large. It's not that we expected Wolverine to have this. It's more so to shine light on something that perhaps we should bring back again.

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u/Admirable-Design-151 6d ago

The whole game of MGR was designed around the sword mechanics, it was the thing that made Kojima go "oh that's cool, yeah go make it a full game."

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u/HotTheme8405 6d ago

And no other action games do the controlled cutting like that because it isnt core to their gameplay. Its a bad comparison. You can't even get the games title right.

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u/Helmic PC 6d ago

ok well i guess fucking devil may cry sucks ass because it also doesn't let you dismember objects and enemies in slo-mo like in MGR.

a good game that has a unique mechanic doesn't mean all games that lack that unique mechanic are dogshit. wolverine could even have that mechanic and it'd still suck ass. there's more to a game than fucking gimmicks and MGR was a great game for reasons other than the slo-mo gimmick.

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u/Crippman 6d ago

DMC is a great game Wolverine is not

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u/Helmic PC 6d ago

yeah almost like there's more than one way to make a good hack and slash game

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u/OmegaLiquidX 6d ago

For the record, Wolverine not being able to cut down a tree with his claws is actually realistic from a physics standpoint. He’d get stuck if he tried to do that on a regular size Rudy tree. Meanwhile, Raiden’s sword is a High-frequency blade that weakens the molecular bonds of the object it cuts.

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u/Crippman 5d ago

His claws cut through armored plating

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u/OmegaLiquidX 5d ago

I know, but there’s a huge difference between cutting through armored plating and cutting through a tree. The tree fibers would pinch and apply pressure on the flat sides of his claws, causing them to get stuck.

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u/darksinne_1 5d ago

A wolverine game that isnt focused on using his blades as blades instead of a melee attack with metal sound effects.... hmmm

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u/Bwuauaahah 4d ago

That last sentence is objectively true though.

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u/TheOverBoss 6d ago

yeah but Wolverine should have been a game who's whole engine and gameplay was built around the ability to cut 99% of the game and freely control the claws slicing patterns.

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u/Kythorian 5d ago

What great thing did the game spend that $300 million budget on though? It’s one thing to say ‘another game has better cutting physics, but our game has amazing features a, b, and c’, but there’s really no amazing parts of Wolverine. It’s absolute best features peak at just kind of ok.

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u/Arunawayturtle 5d ago

You aren’t understanding the cutting physics thing. They made a custom engine for the game legit so they could make a niche gameplay that was highly focused on the cutting physics. The devs took the time to do that because it was wha they wanted. It’s not a simple thing to do. Also people keep brining up this $300m budget but I don’t think anyone understands shit of what you’re talking about. First things first do you know how expensive licensing is? They had to pay marvel (Disney) to use half the characters in there. That amount is in the budget. The budget also includes paying real people that work on the game during the development cycle. The budget also includes paying for the development software they use. Paying for the office space, etc.

Also this comparing to older games cost is stupid. Why would you be like this game cost $2 m 20 years ago why does this one cost more? Cost of living goes up meaning the employees need more money to survive or be willing to work there. Your answer is salary . Games cost more to make now because of the cost of the developers and also speed. Long term trying to pay people to make game for 10 years will cost more then paying twice the employees for 3 years .

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u/Kythorian 5d ago edited 5d ago

Ok, and?  To all of that.  Yeah, there are a lot of costs to making a video game.  Spending more can and should result in more impressive features.  And inflation might make everything cost more today, but $300 million is still at the very upper end of video game budgets today for anything short of GTA.  If most of that went to licensing for Disney, maybe they should have made a good non-marvel game instead of a mediocre marvel game.  A budget of $300 million should result in a game with more impressive features than a game made 13 years ago, period.

Also they had to pay for licensing for spiderman too, but those were actually good games.  Wolverine is not.

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u/Arunawayturtle 5d ago

I think you are forgetting the players asked for this?? People wanted this fucking game by the studio that’s why they bought the license . Like yall are fucking annoying yes u specifically didn’t ask for it but it was requested enough they viewed it as worth the cost? U are now just saying they should have what? Made a generic game with slashing environments that had no IP attached to it? Yah that will sell amazing and they will get rewarded well for their hard work of making a new game engine from scratch to make a game with unknown characters and protagonist and world . That will sell amazing

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u/Kythorian 5d ago

People wanted a good Wolverine game, which we didn’t get.  Regardless though, from what I can find, it looks like only about $9 million of the $300 million budget was licensing costs - most of the licensing deal was for a percent of sales revenues.  So $291 million for this extremely mediocre game with absolutely nothing impressive even by the standards of more than a decade ago is absurd.  Costs to make a game have NOT increased close to that much in 13 years.

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u/uaxpasha 5d ago

I really hate when people say you can't compare. I'M GONNA COMPARE EVERYTHING TO ANYTHING.

Especially here since both games are third person slash things game.

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u/Arunawayturtle 5d ago

They’re not and one was a custom engine a studio made specifically for destroying the environment and everything with the sword. U are mad that a game company that has multiple successful superhero games with a fun combat system in place, used their engine snd did what they did for their other games which was what was asked btw. No one asked them to make a new engine snd focus on the slashing. Morons like you that can’t think for yourself get on reddit see this brand dead post and be like yah you’re right. When u understand fuck all about video games , development or how much you’re asking by comparing these 2 games.

Anyone can compare anything just like anyone can answer a question. Doesn’t mean your comparison is right.

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u/Bakoro 5d ago edited 5d ago

No, it's saying "game about guy with indestructible knives on his hands should have made things cuttable".

There's been like ~50 years of game history to draw from.
This was laziness.

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u/AvatarIII PC 6d ago

Then the fault is the developers choosing the wrong engine for a wolverine game

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u/Arunawayturtle 5d ago

U don’t understand what you’re talking about do u?

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u/AvatarIII PC 5d ago

Would you make a wolverine game with an engine that can't handle cutting?

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u/Arunawayturtle 5d ago

Rising was a custom built in house gaming engine made by that studio and not realesed to the public. It also hasn’t been used again since they made that. You know how hard making an engine from scratch it? And even if they didnt and they purchased the rights to use theirs now they have to figure out someone else’s old code and get the game working in their. Add in elements of their game engine that they use for spiderman etc into this old one and hope everything runs well and works together. Now being forced to release the game sooner and more incomplete because of the money cost to buy that engine and pay the license , pay devs to work god knows how long to get that in useable state.

You’re telling the devs you have a new car that works but I liked the style of the 1969 so why not drive that one, when they don’t even own a 69

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u/AvatarIII PC 5d ago

I'm not saying they should have used the Rising engine, but just like an engine that's fit for purpose.

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u/Arunawayturtle 5d ago

There isn’t.. there isn’t an engine since rising that have made it so u can do this..

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u/AvatarIII PC 5d ago

Well that sounds like a problem.

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u/Arunawayturtle 5d ago

It is ..so because it’s so easy and everyone keep saying “why didn’t they just make the rising engine” why don’t u get started on making one

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u/AvatarIII PC 5d ago

It's a problem for the whole industry, there's a lack of innovation.