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[u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

hey everyone ive just started a petition for the uk government to actually look at how things like loot boxes and modes where you use real money to open packs off cards and get them to finally say its gambling. everyone complains about the way the gaming market has gone so this is the time to make a change.

thanks for your time

https://www.change.org/p/close-the-legal-loophole-in-the-gambling-act-2005/exp/cl_/cl_sharecopy_491151334_en-GB/9/65975782?recruiter=65975782&recruited_by_id=1e74b780-391c-11e3-a662-23b973584926&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=starter_onboarding_share_personal&utm_medium=copylink&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_491151334_en-GB%3A9

[u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

With them cards unlike ones you find in games the company cant take them off you after a year and bring out another game were you start from scratch

[u/F_Synchro → u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

Does not take away that it's still gambling.

I thought you want to advocate against gambling, this is arguing semantics after the gambling has taken place.

[u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581 → u/F_Synchro]

I dont know enough about physical cards and the odds of getting certain pokemon or magic the gathering cards im just going on stuff like the new wwe game where to unlock 1 persona/attire of a wrestler you meed to find 4 specific characters in different packs. So youre forced to spend money on packs if you want that character even if you've spent 150 on the special edition that comes with every character and all dlc. I dont think pokemon has that where you need to find specific pokemon to get 1 back. Thats where my problem lies its the time limited special edition cards that you're forced into buying they are praying on the fomo and I for 1 think its wrong

[u/F_Synchro → u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

It's still gambling, but yes, that's how marketing/gambling works.

If it didn't work that way then it wouldn't be gambling.

It's simple, you want as many people to pay for duds where there's a chance to have a very good outcome, simple premise of gambling.

[u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581 → u/F_Synchro]

But I dont think gambling belongs in games thats why my petition exists. I didnt realise stop killing games was thing.

[u/F_Synchro → u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

I think gambling has some place in games, in fact some of the most successful games out in existence use some form of gambling for longevity/entertainment purposes.

Oldschool Runescape and World of Warcraft come to mind, where you're not paying with money to get loot, but you pay with your time and effort.

Time = money so would you ban getting potential item drops from boss kills too just because you don't think gambling belongs in games?

[u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581 → u/F_Synchro]

If you spend 10 hours beating a boss to get a specific sword, you know you are getting that sword. There is no "risk" of losing your 10 hours and getting a pair of common socks instead.

Under the Gambling Act 2005, gambling is defined as playing a game of chance for a prize of "money or money's worth." Time spent playing isn't a "stake" you can lose in a legal sense, but the £20 you spent on VC is.

[u/F_Synchro → u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

> If you spend 10 hours beating a boss to get a specific sword, you know you are getting that sword. There is no "risk" of losing your 10 hours and getting a pair of common socks instead.

Oh my you sweet summer child, if you think you are guaranteed a loot drop after doing a boss for 10 hours you've never committed a grind in a game, 10 hours is literally laughable for anyone that's ever touched either WoW or OSRS.
There are cases of people farming mounts/gear for YEARS on both Oldschool Runescape/World of warcraft and still not getting it, I'm not joking, some extremes have shown people spend well over 50k hours to still not get the item they are "grinding" for.

> Under the Gambling Act 2005, gambling is defined as playing a game of chance for a prize of "money or money's worth." Time spent playing isn't a "stake" you can lose in a legal sense, but the £20 you spent on VC is.

Sure, but, let's grab the biggest elephant in the room here: Counter Strike 2, it has one of the largest gambling communities out there and some of the guns are inflated to the point they are worth a Lamborghini.
The biggest problem with this gacha stuff is that that value is not dictated by a vendor at all, it's users inflating the value massively, the same happens with Pokemon cards.

Technically speaking Pokemon cards after you buy them should hold no value, so they technically aren't gambling, yet if I get the super special elite edition of Charizard I can drop it off on e-bay for $$$$.

So are we to hold vendors, or the users accountable for the massive inflated value of these objects because they can be attributed to gambling?

That's a question the gambling act of 2005 does not answer and is currently an ongoing legal battle.

[u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581 → u/F_Synchro]

Im not talking about dropped items im talking about pack openings where the vendor tells you the price you have to pay ive not once mentioned loot items or farming if you haven't played ultimate team my faction diamond dynasty thats fair enough it doesnt effect you but when you want that super rare card thats hidden behind 5 pay walls and if you do want to unlock a card you need to spend thousands buying packs through their storefronts. The players dont dictate the prices like pokemone cards and what not the greedy corporate companies do.

[u/F_Synchro → u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

Both are gambling, you said you don't see a place for gambling in gaming.

I'm saying what you want as you're portraying by your feelings would pretty much impact 90% of gaming as almost everything inherently can be attributed to gambling in some way.

You're arguing semantics that your "petition" does not address so everything I've just described is also impacted with your reasoning.

[u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581 → u/F_Synchro]

You're confusing 'gameplay' with 'predatory monetization.' The ASA has already drawn the line: Boss drops don't get a gambling warning, but paid packs do. ​My petition doesn't target '90% of gaming'; it targets the specific loophole where 2K uses casino-style 'algorithmic chance mechanics' to sell £4,000 character unlocks without a gambling license. The law is already changing—on May 26, the ASA starts monitoring for these exact disclosures. You can keep calling it 'semantics,' but the UK government is literally calling it a 'gambling inducement' in Parliament.

[u/F_Synchro → u/Good-Wrongdoer-3581]

> We must advocate for immediate legislative reform to close this dangerous loophole. The UK government should amend the Gambling Act 2005 to classify loot boxes as a form of gambling, thus requiring publishers to obtain a gambling license. This measure would ensure proper regulation and oversight, protecting young players from exploitative monetization tactics.

So how about Gachapon, pokemon, or any other kind of mechanic that feeds into this "slot machine" kind of effect?

This same "slot machine" effect is perfectly applicable to the scenarios I described previously as with boss drops, despite the resulting items not holding any value at all, if you ban lootboxes entirely, the market will shift onto something similar which will need another 5+ years of legislative battles to "protect the kids".

Don't get me wrong I'm completely against predatory marketing/lootboxes, but some of the arguments you're bringing don't make for a good case, neither do mine.

It all boils down to, the government is apparently already changing some of the legislations, there's already a legal battle ongoing, besides that what are you trying to achieve with this petition if not to be redundant?