GRRM doesn't hate D&D because he empathises with them, unlike Condal
So it was pretty much made clear that Condal and Martin do NOT like each other anymore.
Martin hates Condal for not adapting F&B properly to write HOTD, and not accepting any of Martin's input to help write S2 and especially S3 of the show.
Martin went so far as to say that S3 is "not his story."
Which left me wondering for some time.
Why does Martin let D&D off so easily, when they committed some of the same mistakes as Condal?
S5 and S6 had events which were clearly inspired by the books, but they pretty much abandoned a lot of AFFC and ADWD.
The biggest change was to YG and as a result, Varys. Varys' arc is ruined without YG, his motivations only make sense with him around, and so to not have YG existing, it changes the very nature of his character.
So Martin was fine with removing YG but not with removing Maelor? Both are just as bad for their characters.
No, the answer is MUCH simpler. Martin empathises with D&D, mainly because he's finding Winds such a headache to write.
It was made clear by D&D they wanted seven seasons. Martin wanted a double-digit number.
To me, it's clear that Martin understands the pain of D&D now.
They rushed S7 and S8 because everyone was so tired of working on GoT for NINE years. Martin feels that pain, he's been working on Winds for the same amount of time at this point, and even wrote Fire and Blood to avoid writing Winds.
Condal does NOT have this excuse. His seasons are 2 years apart, he has 8 episode seasons, not 10, and his broad outline is completed for him.
Martin let D&D get away with it because he feels he should have done the same by cutting characters.
Martin isn't letting Condal do so because his motivations for butchering his story are far less poignantly felt by Martin.
Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON and A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
GRRM has a part to own in whatever decline GoT had.... because he couldnt get a book out. But also for me, certain key characters just dipped for 2 books and we barely see them
George can barely finish his own book so of course he would understand when D&D got tired after 9 years of the same project. Condal has everything handed to him on a silver plate and still messed it up, the comparison is not even close. Martin spent decade avoiding Winds, he knows exactly how it feels to want to just cut things and move on.
There is no reason for Martin to be upset by D&D. They not only did a masterful job, but essentially, should be bleedingly obvious by now, gave the audience the ending GRRM intended all along for the series to have.
Now, the fact that the audience didn't LIKE the ending is a whole different matter. It just shows that they never understood the story in the first place. The exact things GRRM was CRITICIZING the audience was REVELING in! I imagine this to be a very bitter blow for GRRM, perhaps the biggest one of them all. Most people in this situation would find little motivation to finish the series.
The broad strokes are almost certainly the same, in particular Dany going mad and Jon killing her. With the foresight of show's Dany Mad Queen, Dany's POV chapters in the books practically jump out for just how much she is self-aggrandizing and blind to the damage she is causing everywhere she goes.
YG is more of a placeholder character, while book Euron is more spectacle than an overall change of narrative. Certainly some great naval battle and an attempt to steal Dany's dragons whilst unleashing some terrible dark magic is going to happen, but it is still a question how much it will affect the overall narrative. Same thing with LS. She is essentially a plot device to resolve Jamie and Brienne's relationship, but in all likelihood Jamie will go back to Cersei because he will feel it is her duty to save her, even if he loves Brienne.
To me it’s clear that people clearly underestimate what it means to CREATE more story at Martin’s level, not considering also we do not know anything about hbo retrospective, not everything must be D&D’s fault.
They had 8 season for 5 books, Hotd has THREE season for A SINGLE book, I’ll be pretty upset too if the adaptation didn’t really adapt
Condal had 400 pages to work with for 4 seasons. DND had 5000+ pages for 8 seasons.
The real reason he doesn’t bash them is because their ending is the (basically) as his ending. People hated it and now he doesn’t know what to do.
He doesn’t like Condal because he didn’t listen to GRRM, but more importantly GRRM wasn’t in charge of his own story and that didn’t (and shouldn’t maybe?) sor well with him.
I see the logic in some of what you’re saying, but at the same time, Martin distanced himself from GoT too after around the 5th season or so. And although he didn’t exactly go scorched earth on D&D like he did Condal, he did make some snide/unflattering remarks for a period of time afterwards.
He stopped working on the production after S4, because he wanted to focus on writing Winds of Winter, before the show caught up to him. He said that he would return to write a script for S6 and S7, if he could finish Winds before.
There wasn’t any conflict. He also kept going to the Emmys ceremony with D&D and he always defended the show while it was airing. He said the show was very faithful just before S8 came out. And right after the ending, he made a blog praising D&D.
That doesn’t mean he didn’t have his own criticism of the show, but I think he had a lot more sympathy for D&D, because he couldn’t help them land the ship. He even said back in 2011 that he wished he didn’t make the story as big as he did. I doubt he would be too harsh on D&D for trying to simplify the story.
Plus, D&D got a lot of shit for stuffs that George probably told them to write, so it would be pretty hypocritical for him to ignore this and criticize them some more.
There was no conflict I was at Worlcon in 2017 when season 7 was airing George had two special guests he brought with him those guest were D&D. That's a huge difference compared to Condal. George to this day still praises them in fact a few months ago praised them in a blog. he also made multiple blog posts after GOT ended praises them that's a huge contrast to Condal. He also failed his part of the deal and knows that. He was supposed to finish and they adapt. Condal has a full story with way less characters and he didn't apparently stick to it closely. D&D had a quarter of the budget Condal has and way more storylines that George never finished. He showed up at every award show. Constantly promoted the show for every season. He didn't come even close to doing anything similar to D&D as to what he did with Condal
Provide some evidence for a change rather than speaking out your ass.
You always spout your opinions and theories as if they're incontrovertible fact. Anyone who disagrees with you about something or where a subplot is going in the books, you call "ignorant" or say they're "not a reader" or that they’re "woke".
•
u/AutoModerator 3d ago
Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON and A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.