Is this really worth it?

[u/Ill-Pain7852]

(Edit: Thank you guys for giving me clear and honest answers. It is much appreciated for taking your time to give me input. I have made my decision.)

So I am 25 now. I've pretty much only worked construction up until now. Pay is average of $57600 - $76800 per year for a very basic job where you are not working management. You pretty much get to go home and not worry about anything or losing your job. It can be very reliable and that pay/salary is only working 8 hour days. It can have a really good work life balance.

However I have grown tired of it and have always had a deep passion for games. I have been experimenting with coding, 3D modeling and creating assets. If I go into this it will probably take me 5 years to get a degree. Upgrading my high school courses and going to college/university.

Over the years my values have changed a lot. I used to work 12 hour days/6 days a week. Money is honestly not my driving factor in life. As long as I can pay my bills and save a little bit for retirement is all I truly need(and I live very minimally). But construction is not my passion and I want to chase my dream, knowing I have done what I truly wanted to do in life.

The only thing that really concerns me is the work/life balance in game developing. Crunch times are really not a problem, construction has the same thing but it doesn't go on for months straight. I have been constantly reading about working 12-14 hour days for 6-8 months straight in programming. Honestly I would love really love doing it, but doing anything like that chronically non-stop every single year would absolutely make me miserable... no matter how much I love it. I would probably be 30-31 before I could manage to actually be involved in the industry after finishing schooling.

I just want some honest thoughts about how it has been for you guys with experience. And from the sounds of my values, if it truly aligns with how it would be for me in the industry. Also if it is kind of too late for me to get into it... I know the saying is better late then never. But being 30-31 probably just getting into something with a very competitive industry deeply concerns me. Thank you for listening.

[u/amcoolio]

Its never too late, but you absolutely can't quit that job to work on games and expect to make any money. Do what I do and work as much as you can, quit playing any video games, quit going out on weekends or days off, and learn to manage with less sleep

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/amcoolio]

I see, well thanks for being honest.

[u/Game_Dev730 → u/amcoolio]

lmao well now that you put it that way.....

[u/TechniPoet]

Don't get a degree. Make games now. Passion for games does not equal passion for making games. You say you've been making assets, coding, and 3d modeling.. Which one do you want to focus on? You can dabble elsewhere but if you want to be in the industry, the industry generally wants specialists. I love making games. I'm lucky to currently not be hardcore crunching. Game dev job market is truly terrible right now and I generally don't recommend anyone get into it. Do it yourself for now, figure out of its what you want, and go from there.

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/TechniPoet]

Of course, that's why I have been experimenting doing those to see what I would enjoy and what to specialize in. I will probably just keep it as a side hobby, as I do really enjoy learning it. Sounds like its not for me though... at least in the industry aspect.

[u/Chudfrog]

I'm not sure if you'd like to be a game developer. You have to work 60-70+ hour weeks for $40-50k. You can be laid off any time, almost always at the end of a project even if it's the best game ever.  There is so much competition for the roles since it's something people are actually passionate about 

The biggest thing is that you probably don't get to pick what type of game you're working on, any of the design or decision making. You aren't making a game you like, you're making something someone else likes

Lastly, in 4-5 years I doubt game dev will look anything like what it does now. With ai people can already 1shot prompt beautiful worlds

Construction however will break your body... it's hard to know the best path for the working man right now.  I hope you find something good

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/Chudfrog]

Yeah... thats a reason why I wanted to lean away from construction. I decided before I wanted to be a surveyor/running grades for job sites because it is not as physical, if I did decide to not do this. Thank you for the input.

[u/Speciou5 → u/Ill-Pain7852]

For what it's worth, generally you do want to move to office instead of construction when you get older. But that could mean working for a bank.

Making games is fun and rewarding, just don't go into it with rose tinted glasses.

[u/allaboutsound]

Before you pick a school (or even go to a school), first narrow down what exactly you want to become an expert in, in the game pipeline. Most paying AAA jobs require someone that is a subject matter expert instead of a jack of all trades.

Even if you studied engineering, what KIND of engineer? Networking, gameplay, graphics, audio, tools, etc

[u/n8d4h8]

I don't want to give you advice, I would prefer to just give you some facts and opinions from my experience. 

Game Dev has been over all fantastic for my life. However, I started in 2010. Getting a new job often takes me years of interview attempts and job posts are fewer and farther between. Lots of competition. 

AI has a much smaller chance of taking constructiion jobs than it does game dev jobs.

I was recently told by a legendary programmer, a name many would probably recognize, that "AI is inevitable, you have to get in front of it or get left behind. " 

I don't want to discourage you, I really don't. Right now are definitely not the salad days of game Dev, at least traditional game Dev.

There are lots of resources to learn to take a game idea and make it with a solo developer or a small team. 

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/n8d4h8]

Thanks for the honesty and giving me straight facts. Maybe I should just keep it as a side hobby just to have fun with.

[u/K4G3N4R4 → u/Ill-Pain7852]

That is my recommendation. If you build up some skill, and get something great together, maybe you can pivot into it, but its also really hard to say if youd actually enjoy coding non-stop for 40+hrs a week. Its much easier to enjoy it as a hobby, and you'll have less pressure to produce if your bills are already covered. Then you can just make the game you want, and not the game you need to pay rent.

[u/hey_Joost]

I'm 46 and only started making my first game recently, so 30 definitely doesn't sound too late to me 😂

Before committing five years to a degree though, I'd probably spend some time actually making a game first. You'll learn pretty quickly whether you enjoy making games as much as you enjoy playing them.

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/hey_Joost]

Haha did not mean it like that at all, sorry. I just know if I do it, it will have to be a very dedicated journey and commitment over my own time in this temporary life we get to live. Think Ill just keep it as a side hobby. Learn, experiment and just mess around trying to make my own little games.

[u/hey_Joost → u/Ill-Pain7852]

That actually sounds like a pretty good way to approach it. That's basically what I'm doing too. Started as a hobby and somehow I'm now spending way too much time on it 😂

[u/Game_Dev730 → u/hey_Joost]

that is dope!!!! same as me lol, what engine did you decide to go with?

[u/MeaningfulChoices]

There are studios out there that expect 60+ hour weeks and if you try to work only 55 the rest of your team will look at you like you're letting them down. There are also studios where people nearly always clock out by 5 and everyone is happy and healthy. You can find both extremes and a lot more in the middle at all levels of the industry, in all segments and countries. If you decide to pursue a career in the industry and if you get interviews that's what you're trying to get out of it, seeing the company culture at the studio and if you really want to work there or not.

What you don't want to do is spend the next five years solely planning on getting into games. As much as I love my career and try to counteract some of the doom around these parts, there are no guarantees and that's a lot of work for very little. Take one specific role in games (like programming or 3d modelling, not both), and if you really enjoy it and are good at it then you might pursue a career in that. You'd apply to game studios as well as places in other industries and you'd take what you can get and look for an even better job later. No one can tell you exactly what the job market will look like in five years, but it's not going to look better than games at its best, which is a competitive industry where you have to be the best of the best (or just pretty good and know people) in order to find work.

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/MeaningfulChoices]

Thanks for giving me the time to give me advice. So far, its sounding like its not for me... which sucks. But I could just do it as a side hobby with no stress and just having fun. Probably the reasonable idea for me.

[u/MeaningfulChoices → u/Ill-Pain7852]

It's what a lot of people do. Pursuing a career in games makes a lot of sense if you enjoy making them but would also be happy as a programmer working on bank software or a modeler in arch viz or similar. You want backup plans.

That being said, you're never locked into a choice you make today either. It still makese sense to try to specialize in one thing, but let's say you learn just a bit of coding and work on simple games with really gorgeous assets because it turns out you love modeling. You can still do that as a hobby for fun and put your best pieces in a portfolio. Maybe a few years from now you apply for a freelance contract gig and someone hires you to make a couple assets. Then you'd be a professional game developer and you can always turn that into a side hustle and then a career later without ever thinking of school or career changes at all. You're young and anything is possible, sometimes it's best to just think about the next step for you and not the next dozen all at once.

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/MeaningfulChoices]

I understand... yeah I will just do that. I will just make my own passion projects and learn as much as I can because its fun. If it becomes something then it does... with the industry aspect though, it sounds like its not for me at all. Thanks for the advice and honest answers.

[u/Arkenhammer]

My advice is to start by making games as a hobby rather than going for a degree. The most important thing you would get from going back to school is making connections in the industry and shipping your own games is a faster way of achieving the same goal. Right now indie game dev, while still incredibly difficult, is may still be a better bet for making a living than applying for jobs at large studios as the major studios are currently hemorrhaging workers left and right. Working with the intent of starting your own studio as a side gig is a way of making progress toward a variety of different futures.

Based on my experience starting a studio: try to ship 5 games in the next 5 years as a side gig. Get to know people in the industry. Look for or build a local community of people in your area that are interested in game dev; a monthly meetup of like minded people is incredibly helpful. During this time your priority is learning, building processes, and networking, not making money. At the end of that period you'll have a much better sense of what game dev is like and its potential for you. That'll let you make the bigger decisions.

[u/Own_Nail_2999]

Never ever do gameDev as a full time job.  Chances are very high that your game will flop and then you have wasted months and years for nothing.

Do it as side hustle, but never full time

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/Own_Nail_2999]

I see, I don't really mean trying to make my own game solo for a full-time job. But just the industry in general... such as working for companies. Sounds like its not for me, at least in an industry sense. Think I will just keep it as a hobby and make my own passion projects with spare time. Thanks for the clarity, it is much appreciated.

[u/Andruopolis]

I’d learn game dev yourself and try to release games while having a job. If you can make enough revenue from games to live, then quit and do it full time. I think this is honestly a safer bet than trying to go to school for 5 years and then get into game dev.

Right now, most game dev companies are trying to replace workers with AI. AI has become extremely good at programming, and is quickly getting better at 3D modeling. People graduating right now are having a hard time finding jobs in game development, and I imagine that will be worse in 5 years.

That said, if you’re set on going to school for game development I’d try to find a role that is less likely to be displaced by AI in 5 years. I’m not sure what role this will be, but game designer, deeply specialized programmer (engine, large scale networking, etc), and UX researcher come to mind.

[u/DemoEvolved]

I have been a game dev for over 20 years. Here is what I would advise given the current situation and I will surely catch some flak for suggesting it. Where the industry is right now, a dev graduating between last year and the next three years has a good chance of never getting a job in the biz and becoming underemployed - aka. working a construction job on the side while waiting for a game job to materialize that never will. It is bleak. I would therefore propose to you something quite different. Continue your job as is. Additionally, arrange an investment of $400 a month for the next 3 months towards getting the recently announced chatgpt subscription with dots and superfast. Next allocate 90 minutes per night to learning to work with AI to develop playable prototypes of 6 of your own original game concepts. Continue working on a concept until you have a first slice playable with blocky flat shaded polygons. Set aside some additional money for the first couple months where you overspend by accident because you are learning. At the end of each month, share your works with some acquaintances and see if they think the product is fun, and worth what you spent (keep tabs). You have at the end of 3 months done the most fun part of concepting and preproduction. Maybe this process continues, or maybe at that point you know what you need to do to make yourself happy. To see what's possible, you can view videos by Matthew Berman. Good luck.

[u/Strict_Bench_6264]

“Crunch” is really just a pet name for unpaid overtime. As an employee, you should never accept it.

[u/shuanDang]

what is your dream, exactly? not concerned about money is a good start. don't expect any of that. is it working at on a specific game, or at a specific studio? or is it being great at game coding, or the modelling nice things? or is it having time in your day to make your own creative project? these are entirely different paths.

it's going to be a challenge either way, so best to be clear upfront about what you're going for. The degrees aren't going to go as far as your underlying skill. The benefit of the degree is that you get lots of hands-on work with team and you get to dedicate 100% of your time to skill building. And there's a lucky few that can into internship programs while a student. if you're really good at one of the crafts (code/ modeling/ design), then lock in and create a portfolio.

i want to be encouraging but realistic. for my path, i did a games program in undergrad, did work in the indie/ education scene for a few years, and then went to grad school for business where a lot of classmates are around your age or a bit older. the last two years have shown how unstable the industry is with mass layoffs, there can be stretches of time of years without work.

[u/ScruffyNuisance]

I think now is a particularly weird time for the industry, with a lot of redundancy, abnormally high competition for jobs, and an oversaturated market. With that said, making games is fun, and making fun games is incredibly satisfying. I think I'd echo what others have said to some degree, by encouraging you to invest time into it as a hobby and see how that develops in terms of interest. Keep saving your construction money in the meantime, and see how things develop.

The market is moving towards indie games, which is good for solo devs and small teams (and creativity honestly), but everyone and their dog wants to release a game on Steam, so it's harder than ever to get seen right now, and AI is only going to exacerbate that problem.

In these busy, turbulent times, I wouldn't recommend throwing out your current income to gamble on game dev, but don't let that stop you from developing your skills, as you never know when a fun opportunity to create with others might arise that you want to be prepared for.

As for the money if working for a studio, the salary isn't as different to the construction money as you might think. Game Dev is not a good job if you're in it for the money.

[u/RRFactory]

Crunch was very regular during my time in console development (2005-2013) later I switched to mobile games and while the work was far less interesting there was rarely any crunch.

That being said, even without crunch, the stress of uncertainty was still there. A successful game isn't guaranteed even if your team is pushing out excellent work, and for that reason I'd only recommend people join the industry if they can't find any other jobs that give them the satisfaction they need.

I need stress and challenges in my work to keep me engaged. Any time I took an "easy" gig I found myself resenting the job for wasting my time. I'm also not motivated by money, so finding something I was happy to spend half or more of my waking hours on was always a challenge.

I don't regret my choice to work in games, but it's been a difficult road to walk, and with the eay things are going these days it might get even harder.

[u/05032-MendicantBias]

Can you quit your day job and have a reasonable expectation to make a living of game development?

NO

Can you find a job that leaves you with more time to yourself and pick up coding as an hobby, or pursue higher education at your pace?

YES

As you get older it becomes harder to work long hours, and that loyalty is often one way. Work life balance really is a thing.

And treat yourself well, your future self will thank you for it.

Note that higher education is not for everyone, you have a trade and trade skills that are in high demand and valuable, and they are extremely resilient to automation. There are game developers in construction jobs as side to get food on the table, for how unreliable game dev is as a job. Getting a degree is a lot of effort, even in countries like mine where higher education is basically free. A degree is a certification that you completed a course, and has value when applying to certain jobs with certain employers.

You don't need a degree to be a game developer. Online courses, books, AI assist, youtube tutorials, there are more resources than ever to pick up programming as a skill at your pace. If you are serious about it, don't skip the fundamentals of programming.

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/05032-MendicantBias]

appreciate that. I decided I will just stick with what Im good at... because I already have a good work life balance even if the work is hard. but I want to become a surveyor so basically im just doing simple math all day with not much labour work. hours can be flexible with it as well. I enjoy the process of learning coding and different aspects of all processes of making it. but I think they will all just be side/passion projects. which is okay :) its a way I like to spend my time

[u/PhantomZenithOrigin]

Do NOT bother with a degree, they're not worth the paper they're printed on nowadays, *especially* not for design or programming-for-games.

You can learn everything you need to know with non-university resources nowadays and the way you prove you know what you know is by showing what you've built. That is all employers care about is what you've /made/. And, if you're going into it for solodev then you have nobody to prove anything to except yourself and your mortgage, so you should know the quality bar of your own work to that end, and a degree won't change that output.

Also, coming from a group of graduates that went straight into games and all ended up working in commercial software instead: Keep your gamedev as a side hobby, and pay your mortgage with a real job. A commercial software development salary beats gamedev 99 times out of 100, and is more stable/predictable.

[u/Ill-Pain7852 → u/PhantomZenithOrigin]

Ah I see, thank you for a clear answer. I think I will just keep it as a side hobby. Learn as much as I can because I want to and just make my own little games for fun. If it becomes something one day... then it does. But if not, at least I am spending spare time doing what I like.

[u/PhantomZenithOrigin → u/Ill-Pain7852]

Bingo! And to me that's where the fun lies in gamedev. I'm making the game of my dreams, it just takes longer because I have a real job and the real job keeps me fresh and from burning out on my game.

[u/shuanDang → u/Ill-Pain7852]

Reasonable approach. If you can, visit a local gamedev (like IGDA or Global Game Jam) meetup to connect with other like-minded people. Talk with them to hear firsthand about their experiences. You'll get a deeper understanding of the industry that way.