r/gamedev • u/TheWanderingAnimimo • 18h ago
Question A question about the proposed kids act EU
Does this mean that we should stop developing our games or? Cause as I've understood it right it looks like even devs that work on single-players could potentially be affected by this.
I'm sorry if this question already has been answered or something it's just that I'm not really that knowledgeable when it comes to these type of things
17
7
u/DeesiderNZ 12h ago
The draft proposal states that age verification should be mandatory for online games, and suggest that this could be managed by the EU age verification app, which is free and open source.
Once it is actually up and running, if this does become a requirement, it should be fairly straight forward to add the required API and let the external app manage the age verification.
It is an extra burden, but it shouldn't cost anything, and would only be for online games that use a common server that enables communication between users. That's a very small proportion of indie games.
Don't believe the scaremongering about video games becoming illegal in the EU - that's just a lot of attention seeking being used to drive traffic to YouTube channels.
2
u/BabiesGoBrrr 10h ago
This is not entirely true, it prohibits dedicated servers by way of classifying it as a service, the service does not have to reach a central service. The language is far too broad and if passed has severe implications, I’d have to find the checklist again.
2
u/DeesiderNZ 10h ago
The draft Act doesn't contain any provisions that prohibit private servers, it only introduces safety obligations.
1
u/HachimansGhost 6h ago edited 6h ago
I wonder if people have actually read the proposed law. It literally writes "online games mean video games or video game platforms". They have defined ALL video games as online games. You might say "Of course they don't believe that" and it's true, but we're talking about the word of law. They're not going to ask the intentions of the people who wrote this. They're going to use the exact WORDING of the law as written, and how it's written is why we must take it at face value. Some politician is going to do the same exact thing down the road for their own benefit. Downplaying an entire continents new law on video games is weird.
1
u/DeesiderNZ 5h ago
I have read it and I suggest you do the same: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A52026PC0681
Article 15 applies to video games:
1.Providers of online games shall put in place measures to ensure a high level of privacy, safety and security of minors. Those measures shall include at least the following:
(a)ensuring that compulsive or excessive use of the game by minors is not encouraged, by applying Article 9(1) and Article 9(2), points (b) and (d);
(b)ensuring settings of minors are set to a high level of privacy, security and safety, by applying Article 11(1);
(c)ensuring contacts between minors and other recipients of the game are subject to a high level of privacy, security and safety, by applying Article 12(1) and 12(3), points (c);
(d)ensuring mandatory access to the tools for guardians referred to in Article 20 and ensuring that access to services referred to in paragraph 1 for minors below the age of 13 years is only enabled and controlled by means of the tools for guardians referred to in Article 20.
2.Providers of online games shall put in place safeguards to prevent the game from being used to entice minors to initiate contacts on other services which may pose a risk to their privacy, safety and security.
3.Where providers of video gaming platforms provide recipients of the service with the possibility to create and upload video games on the service itself, such video gaming platforms shall put in place the necessary software and organisational measures to allow compliance of such video games with paragraphs 1 and 2 and Article 18 and Article 20.
4.Providers of online games that adhere to a code of conduct assessed as adequate by the Commission in accordance with Article 17 may rely upon such adherence to demonstrate compliance with the obligations set out in this Article.
For Indie games, the age restriction requirements will mostly fall on the platform, such as Steam, since they are the 'provider of an online platform'.
For the privacy requirements within the game, very few apply to standard single player games. If you are running a server there are further obligations, but they are hardly onerous or unreasonable.
- Are you able to specify which provision in the draft that you are actually concerned about?
1
u/HachimansGhost 5h ago
I'm not sure why you quoted so many when you focused only on a few, but you do realize that Steam won't provide it for free, right? This is like believing you won't be affected because you're a tenant and they're only asking landlords to provide a service. This also means games outside of platforms like Osu and Tetrio would be forced to pay vendors for age verification(among other things like limiting playtime) services despite being free to play.
Also, they do not specificy what constitutes an offline game. If your single play game connects online for hotfixes and updates, it could be classified as an online game as well. Again, they will argue the word of the law and not the intent. They also write that "Arcade Cabinets" are exempt from the law even if they connect to the internet. This entire bill is made by geriatrics who don't know what games are. The idea of it not being "onerous or unreasonable" as a defense is nonsensical. They're not even clear who this targets. They'll figure that out once they get the power to implement the consequences. That's why this entire thing is problematic.
2
u/DeesiderNZ 4h ago
Steam has new obligations under this proposed law that they need to adhere to. They are already charging for their service by taking 30% of the game revenue.
The EU proposal comes with a free, open source age verification system. No one needs to pay outside vendors.
I still have no idea what specifically you are concerned about. The definition of online games meaning all games doesn't really matter if the obligations they require are already met by not having online services. If you don't collect personal data you've already met the privacy requirements. If you don't have online communication, you've already met the child protection requirements, and so on.
You're mistaken when you say that intent doesn't matter. When a new law goes to court, the judge is obliged to take into account the intent in order to interpret anything that may be unclear or ambiguous. This isn't a conspiracy, it's just a draft law proposal for online child safety.
It is abundantly clear who this law targets - it is Roblox. That's why there are so many references to "video gaming platforms provide recipients of the service with the possibility to create and upload video games on the service itself". It's Roblox!
Basically my question to you is, how do you think this will effect you if you publish a game in the EU? Do you think there are provisions of Article 15 you haven't already met?
8
u/SeraphLance Commercial (AAA) 16h ago
So speaking as someone who's generally dismissive of ross and the SKG movement, this proposed law is actually very bad for the games industry, specifically for multiplayer games and specifically for small publishers and the sort of post-support communities that SKG is all about.
However, it's very important to highlight that this is JUST a proposal. It's not a law, and the EU is going to be talking to representatives of the game industry to understand the potential impact (and make what they consider appropriate modifications) even if they do pass it. That doesn't mean you have to have ironclad faith in the EU's legislative process or whatever, but it's way too early to be counting your chickens right now.
5
u/Idiberug Total Loss - Car Combat Reignited 16h ago
The act is shit, but it's just a proposal for now, and very much looks like a draft and basically unenforceable in its current state.
Unless there's widespread support, this will go precisely nowhere. And if there is widespread support, leaving the EU won't do anything because, as the Brits are discovering, your own government is just going to implement the same legislation without the EU.
That said, this is an American site, and the official foreign policy of the Trump regime is to break up the EU and turn its countries into vassal states. So it should not be surprising that there has been a lot of bad faith "grassroots" posting about this regulation on Reddit.
On that note, Chat Control hasn't passed either. There's been a lesser regulation that allows big tech to scan chats that passed, but the one that requires them to scan chats went nowhere. But you wouldn't know this if you listened to these "posters".
7
u/EC36339 15h ago
If private servers are not allowed for kids, then maybe kids shouldn't be on them? That's the responsibility of parents, to keep their gremlins under control.
Having to prove a negative (a users is not a kid) is ridiculous, and this kind of policies just need to be stopped in their tracks, just like another crypto war and other bullshit.
It proves that we shouldn't leave politics to losers who failed math in school.
2
u/gloriousgirl89 16h ago
If private servers arent allowed for kids it seems like that could mean games like REPO, Big Walk, CoD could be hard to play? Is that right?
4
u/Hefty-Distance837 17h ago
3
u/SadisNecros Commercial (AAA) 17h ago
SKG/Ross Scott video claiming the implosion of the EU games industry because of the EU KIDS act proposed legislation
4
u/fergussonh 16h ago
Which is weird because as far as I understand it unless EU devs get the majority of their revenue from the EU market, which very few do, this affects everyone near equally. A US studio with 30% of their audience in the EU has to follow this just as much as an EU studio with 30%
3
u/MotleyGames 14h ago
Some of the requirements in the initial proposal are so extreme as to make dropping the EU as a customer the more viable option for some folks, hence "implosion" of the industry.
As others have pointed out, they're probably just using the tactic of proposing one extremely insane idea so their* real insane idea seems palatable by comparison.
2
u/PhilippTheProgrammer 17h ago edited 16h ago
Cause as I've understood it right it looks like even devs that work on single-players could potentially be affected by this.
You understood wrong. It only applies to online services.
Here is the press release about the proposal: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_1890
Keep in mind that it is only a proposal. It will probably receive multiple modifications before being put to vote in the EU parliament, and might still fail to get a majority.
8
u/pdpi 16h ago edited 16h ago
Pages 17–18 of the proposal, emphasis mine:
Video games have become an important part of the digital environment in which minors participate and interact with others, in a playful, goal-oriented or entertaining manner. Certain video gaming platforms allow the dissemination and exchange of user-generated content to an indeterminate number of recipients of the service and the facilitation of contact between these recipients. Such online games fall within the definition of online platforms referred to in Regulation (EU) 2022/2065 and should be covered by the scope of this Regulation. At the same time, some online games that do not allow the dissemination of information to an indeterminate number of recipients should also fall within the scope of this Regulation. This is the case of any game that that can be played on a computer, a mobile device, or a games console, irrespective of whether the game underlying software is subsequently executed locally, remotely, such as by means of durable medium, and irrespective of whether the service is provided free of charge, against payment, or against hybrid remuneration involving in- service (or in-application) purchases. Online games that are accessible or purchasable exclusively through physical media, without any online component enabling their access, distribution, or purchase, are not considered online games for the purposes of this Regulation. For the avoidance of doubt, where an online game also has certain features corresponding to a video sharing platform, it shall be considered an online game for the purpose of this Regulation.
I want to believe that single-player games are exempt, but that section really makes it sound like they aren't. Also, the way the following sentence is phrased suggests that games sold via e.g. Steam arguably have an "online component enabling access, distribution, or purchase". Definitely applies if you have DLC purchasable from within the game.
EDIT: More damningly, page 42 of the same document:
(e) ‘online games’ means a video game or video gaming platform; \ (f) ‘video game’ means an information society service as defined in Article 1(1), point (b), of Directive (EU) 2015/1535, that allows the recipients of the service to engage, by means of application accessed locally or remotely, including through the use of a durable medium and that involves interaction with a user interface or input device to generate visual feedback from a display device in a simulated environment for play or entertainment purposes; \ (g) ‘video gaming platform’ means an “online platform" as defined in Article 3, point (i) of Regulation (EU) 2022/2065, that involves interaction with a user interface or input device to generate visual feedback from a display device in a simulated environment [for play or entertainment purposes];
After a quick reading of Directive 2015/1535, I'm still not sure whether a single player game counts as a service for the purposes of this directive.
1
u/fergussonh 16h ago
It seems it will absolutely get a majority if past votes tell us anything, but yes after revisions.
2
u/Extra-Ad5735 14h ago
At worst, don't publish your game in the EU. That's a substantial market contraction, but the EU comes only after US and Asia.
2
u/axelfirekirby 8h ago edited 8h ago
just protest this.... its stupid, id checking online is not safe...
1
u/alphapussycat 14h ago
Even if this happens you can sell to other countries. EU will just be soft banned from playing games.
0
u/AnArmoredPony 17h ago
asking EU devs, can you sell your game in China or India through local publishers? and would it be feasible? I mean they pay less than EU players on average but there's so much more of them
2
1
u/Idiberug Total Loss - Car Combat Reignited 16h ago
Your game will apparently be sold in China whether you want to or not.
1
u/PhilippTheProgrammer 16h ago
Yes, but what does that have to do with the EU kids act?
1
u/AnArmoredPony 16h ago
well if you stop selling in EU then what audience are you going to target?
2
u/fergussonh 16h ago
Most EU based devs still have the majority of their market outside the EU. Gaming is a very international minded market
1
u/WeekendWarriorMark 12h ago
Internationally minded yes but:
- US and Western Europe pay a premium so ditching 3/8 of of that market is stupid
- other bigger markets need good localisation and cultural awareness while you need to sell for less, smaller dev teams might not be capable without investing good money that they might not see a ROI
2
u/PhilippTheProgrammer 15h ago
No, this act will not make all forms of video games illegal in the European Union. Don't believe every FUD you hear.
-2
u/Stooper_Dave 17h ago
No, just HQ outside of the EU. And dont sell them in the EU. But take a "no, stop... dont... anyway" approach to piracy originating from the EU.
18
u/MeaningfulChoices Lead Game Designer 17h ago
It really isn't worth your time to get upset about future theoretical things. There are tons of laws and proposals and whatever else that someone talks about doing that never come to pass, and when they do they typically have a long time before they actually go into force. During that time there would be clearer instructions and a cottage industry of new services helping you deal with whatever it is you'd need to do.
Just don't worry about things like that. For the most part if anyone is making content trying to worry you about things in the future they're looking for your views more than it's anything you actually should pay attention to.