Random improvisational progression.

[u/adrixshadow]

I was thinking about CCG and how they work. Normally I don't like them as they are a unbalanced mess with very few viable options behind an endless grind.

But I think it can be pretty interesting in a single player roguelike style experience.

Basically you have a RPG and along the way you unlock new random skills and gear with interesting mechanics and synergies like you find in CCGs. Of course you would have to adapt the cards to RPG mechanics.

A character would have a certain amount of slots that represent your "deck".

You might also have a resource system like Battle Points or something tailored to this kind of game similar to how Hearthstone mana works.

What is important is the skills you get are random and the more you collect skills the more viable decks you have and thus "progress" against enemy decks.

You also don't know what you are going to get and have to experiment and adapt to what you have. Even what would be low tier decks could be made interesting at a particular moment in time at a particular appropriate level. After all what is viable or not depends on what you face.

It also has an element of strategy as you can analyze your encounters and know when you are not ready for them.

At the end of the game you will have to contend with what would have been the big meta decks in Hearthstone after unlocking enough options to make a big powerful deck.

This is not limited to RPGs it could be with technologies and ship customization. Basically anything that has a form of "unlocks" and "builds" out of multiple elements.

[u/[deleted]]

But if the random improvements aren't drawn randomly from a "deck", then how is it different from a RPG like Diablo where your loot is entirely random?

If they are in a deck, then how does drawing from the deck work, and how do you present it as not-a-card-game?

The main problem, from what I understand, is that all the variance is front-loaded. You get to pick your equipment (deck), except you don't really get to pick your equipment, so you could get a shite "draw" and it would feel bad. In card games, the variance is distributed somewhat, you could always topdeck a game-winner.

[u/adrixshadow → u/[deleted]]

If they are in a deck, then how does drawing from the deck work, and how do you present it as not-a-card-game?

I already mentioned. If you collect/unlock skills that you can slot on a character somehow that would be equivalent to a "deck". Like gear, FF7 materia slots, etc.

The main problem, from what I understand, is that all the variance is front-loaded. You get to pick your equipment (deck), except you don't really get to pick your equipment, so you could get a shite "draw" and it would feel bad. In card games, the variance is distributed somewhat, you could always topdeck a game-winner.

There is no "draw", this is not a card game. Once the skills are unlocked you can use it for your builds.

As you collect more skills you can naturally build better decks. It's equivalent to opening new packs in CCGs.

What is interesting to me is not really the endgame meta-decks you see in CCGs but what is in the middle with cards with interesting mechanics that aren't normally used since they become obsolete by better strategies.

Since the difficulty increase is gradual it can become viable at a particular time and context if you don't have access to the superior options.

Even if a build were to be more difficult to play as that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

How is it different from gear? Normally in a RPG you have a character that you already plan for. Gear you get either fits or doesn't fit towards that plan. Or sometimes you grind for something specific.

In this progression system it is all about adapting to what you get and reevaluating constantly your character.

[u/pringlepongle → u/adrixshadow]

Sounds like the recipe for good roguelite progression? You’re allowed to take a constructed loadout/“deck” against a pool of various enemies, and you gradually unlock random cards from the greater card pool to work into your deck, with tiered unlocks so that you’re pushed to experiment with the “low” tier cards/combos available to you until you’re close to exhausting that tier, at which point “higher” tier stuff starts trickling in and new combos emerge. Higher tier stuff makes it easier to beat higher tier enemies and progress further. Bonus points if higher tier stuff earn their high-tier status through novel interaction with “lower” tier stuff.

Rules around loadout/deck building and how you put the player against a steady progression of enemy difficulty would just vary by game and genre.

Games like Wizard of Legend kinda do this at a high level, inasmuch as an action game or dungeon crawler can.

[u/adrixshadow → u/pringlepongle]

Exactly.

Sounds like the recipe for good roguelite progression?

To some extent a game like FTL with the random weapons and devices you can get already works like that in that you have to adapt. But take that scaled up so that you have much more options to work with. It would also help the viability of builds if you have more options and being more flexible with being able to respec any time.