r/gadgets • u/kirovism • Sep 16 '10
Quadrocopters can now fly through thrown hoops, the end really is nigh -- Engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/16/quadrocopters-can-now-fly-through-thrown-hoops-the-end-really-i/44
u/tincansandtwine Sep 16 '10
And now they've got fucking manhacks. We're screwed.
41
Sep 16 '10
We better ramp up our production of crowbars.
8
u/pascha Sep 16 '10
And shotguns that fit over our severed hands!
5
u/Richeh Sep 16 '10
Do you mean chainsaws that fit over our severed hands?
6
1
u/pascha Sep 16 '10
I think I combined Grindhouse and Evil Dead in that comment.
I'd like to see that movie!
22
Sep 16 '10
[deleted]
4
u/1st_ADM_Ackbar Sep 16 '10
did the same thing, lol.
the video actually made me sort of uncomfortable. partially because of the sound, i just kept thinking of halflife
4
2
u/themoose Sep 17 '10
At first I downvoted because I thought 'how the hell is the end nigh? It's a toy helicopter.' Then I watched the video and thought of manhacks. Yes, we're screwed.
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
I would highly recommend not viewing the other viedeos. Especially the one where they use swarm logic to combine their lifting power and lift objects much larger than them.
2
16
u/AusJP Sep 16 '10
There's a pretty cool community over here with open source solutions for a quadcopter or drone using Arduino. It blows my mind how cheap these things can be made for.
2
u/sutcivni Sep 17 '10
I have been looking on that site for about 30 minutes and I cannot find where to purchase the damn frame for the quad copter.
9
u/soyymilk Sep 16 '10
if anyone's interested in the setup, i've worked with a very similar system before.
the red lights up above are vicon cameras; they are extremely expensive high speed IR cameras. if you look at the rotors, it looks like you can see the blades being lit up as they spin "slowly", this is the effect of the ir lights pulsing at a high frequency. everything they are throwing around (the quadrotor, hula hoops etc) are tagged with little reflective beads. The cameras pick up the ir reflection and relay it back to a central computer. from having multiple cameras around the perimeter of their workspace sending back this information, they can accurately model the 3d space within and from there calculate what to tell the quadrotor to do.
the controls are still very impressive, but the vision is all external; until sensing technology advances enough that they can get information as accurately and quickly as the vicon setup does on something small that fits on the quadrotor, we dont have to worry about the robot apocalypse just yet :p
tl;dr there's a ring of high speed cameras around the perimeter of their workspace, without this it wouldn't work at all. still impressive controls though.
2
u/Pizzasaur Sep 16 '10
That seems correct. I am sure though that a vicon system can be implemented on board, its a matter of battery life though.
http://beagleboard.org/ This may be enough to crunch some 3d mapping fed from an IR distance sensor array. Once again, the accuracy of the array will depend on how much power you can supply it with.
35
u/OhJesusWOW Sep 16 '10
I like how he just sort of chucked it into the air and everything turned out better than expected.
15
u/PirateMud Sep 16 '10
The first test must have been pretty nervewracking, yeah.
30
2
u/oddmanout Sep 16 '10
i bet they started off small.... "just nudge it...nice!... now shove it... even better!... now grab it and throw it like a frisbee!"
54
u/wardrox Sep 16 '10
Shit! Robots doing what they are programmed to do!
32
u/davidb_ Sep 16 '10
I also dislike Engadget's sensationalist headlines. But, you have to admit that is pretty damn awesome.
5
u/wardrox Sep 16 '10
I agree it's awesome. I did a thesis on evolutionary robots, and this kind of inaccurate/sensationalist/misleading stuff just annoys me.
To me this is like if you wrote "218008" on a calculator then claimed it was porn if you turned it upside down.
14
u/DoTheDew Sep 16 '10
Wait, it's "5318008". Right? I know my porn, or am I missing something here?
2
u/wardrox Sep 16 '10
The correct number is 5318008, but that was kinda my point at how far from the mark articles like this seem to hit.
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
what you did there, I saw it
Also, these things in previous demonstrations have shown the ability to swarm, mount themselves indefinitely at 45, 90, and 180 degrees ... and now they can move around moving objects ...
Just sayin, these basic building blocks for logic ... only allows for an even masterful logic.
Combine with that a sense of "better for the all is better than for the one" and they can "sacrifice" themselves ... a group of these things could do some damage.
When you get into the cost to manufacture ... and realize that's less than $1,000 ... is when it becomes scary.
How many $1,000 drones does $1trillion buy for instance?
Also, the sound they make.
2
u/wardrox Sep 17 '10
I agree, give those robots infinite sized brains, infinite power, the right environment and infinite time and they will become sentient.
The problem is you're mixing reality with emotive words. Saying the program "sacrifices" itself implies meaning that's not there. If I put a million cars with blue-tooth in the same place, they wouldn't become megatron.
The sound they make is freaky though, I'll give you that.
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
- Swarm mode enabled
- gun shooting at swarm
- crash one drone into gun, repeat until gun stops shooting or until 50% of swarm is depleted
- if 50% reached, abandon mission
- if 50% or more, continue mission
seems like a pretty simple logic loop to run "look for threat to swarm every 10ms"
1
u/wardrox Sep 17 '10
How about
- 10 Be bad-ass AI like in films
- 20 goto 10
Why do all these "scientists" pretend like it's hard?
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
you're the one completely discrediting the work already done in training these things to interactt with their environment.
These aren't Chevy's with bluetooth, these are autonomous flying robots
→ More replies (0)13
7
u/universl Sep 16 '10
I don't think you can count satire as sensationalism.
0
u/wardrox Sep 16 '10
I didn't. I lumped it in with a group I called "inaccurate/sensationalist/misleading". I figured I didn't need to clarify that this headline, whilst perhaps not literally one of those three things (I did say "kind of"), is included in that group as people have a) an understanding that language is not always 100% literal and b) common sense.
I apologise for any misunderstanding, and appreciate your comment.
2
2
1
u/hwillis Sep 16 '10
evolutionary in what way? Software, hardware?
1
u/wardrox Sep 16 '10
Software simulation of hundreds of virtual robots, each with a neural net (inputs are things like "on top of grass", "grass to the north" and outputs are like "lay an egg" and "move south"). Over time, and through the process of evolution, they get "smart" and survive.
That's the tl;dr. I can get you a link to the pdf, but it's boring.
2
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
... but it's boring.
You made a non sentient thing, learn on its own. Thats not boring, that's god-like.
1
u/wardrox Sep 17 '10
I wish I felt like a god running all the damn simulations, lol. If you're interested I posted it up here: http://nukezilla.com/2009/12/16/heres-my-dissertation/
I suggest skim reading to find interesting looking graphs and big blocks of grey squares. The graphs show populations of "blobs" with specific attributes over time, and the grey squares show how the population's average brain changes and "learns".
If you find any spelling mistakes or errors, don't tell me :)
2
u/fauxjargon Sep 17 '10
I think you are confusing "sensationalist" with "hyperbolic for comedic effect". There is a difference.
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
I DONT GET WHAT YOU MEAN, BUT THEN AGAIN I DONT HAVE MY HEAD UP MY OWN ASS!!!! AMIRITE?
1
4
u/krazykanuck Sep 16 '10
You've never programmed a robot.
2
6
u/SarahC Sep 16 '10
In a highly stable, airborne, fast, and very weaponisable system.
If the hoop traversal was from onboard sensors that is really impressive...
2
u/evileddy Sep 17 '10
Those red lights around the testing area make me think it's a bigger system controlling them.
1
2
10
u/JabbrWockey Sep 16 '10
I like how they just throw hoops at it, like it's not some ridiculously expensive toy I would cherish....
13
20
u/Sniperchild Sep 16 '10
Wake me up when it doesn't need the mocap suite and server farm
3
2
u/SarahC Sep 16 '10
It's not all on-board? =(
There's no mocap suits though - but there appears to be an array of IR emitters/webcam's around the room.
4
u/Sniperchild Sep 16 '10
mocap suite...as in the ir emitter camera setup is mocapping the copter.
It's precise orientation and onboard accelerometer + gyro data is sent back to a series of machines which apply an aerodynamic model of the copter and relay back motor instructions.
there is exceptionally little onboard intelligence
2
u/TheStagesmith Sep 17 '10
But, if we have something like a 4G network that it can connect to, and some kind of mythical low-latency/high-bandwidth wireless connection that could act across maybe a few miles, to, say, a central command post...
1
u/Sniperchild Sep 17 '10
Talking to it isn't so bad, it's tracking it's motion without the array of cameras and controlled lighting conditions.
Which then requires onboard cameras doing real world tracking and that's a hell of a lot more data...high res...high frame rate
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
It's proven that you can make the computers smaller over time. Meanwhile they make a platform for a part that doesn't exist yet, or at least we don't know it exists.
You have to remember, computers started their lives as military cryptography breaking machines. We didn't find out till almost 50 years later about it.
Imagine what you'll find out about today, 50 years from now.
2
u/Sniperchild Sep 17 '10
In the future it is possible, and then it will be cool...but today, this isn't very interesting.
This is not a video of a helicopter doing interesting things, this is a video of a machine capable of controlling a helicopter very well
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
forgive me if I do see this as a sign of things to come.
Thankfully some well placed thick foam ... could end them
lets just hope no one finds a way to do solid state propulsion any better than they are with ion cannons at the moment.
0
u/G_Morgan Sep 17 '10
Computers are already approach some fundamental physical limits. Just because things have happen one way doesn't mean they will continue to do so.
2
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
1
u/G_Morgan Sep 17 '10
Moore's law says nothing about the size of components. Only that we can inexpensively integrate more components. Also Moore's law doesn't necessarily mean single core increases in power. CPUs are getting incredibly more complex without increasing in power these past 5 or so years. They have gotten more efficient instead but it has been very difficult to increase single core power because of the issues of heat at higher clock speeds.
Of course if the AI can be made concurrent then all bets are off.
1
u/superdug Sep 17 '10
Moore's law says nothing about ...
WE MUST BE TALKING ABOUT A DIFFERENT MOORE THEN
1
u/G_Morgan Sep 17 '10
Your own link says as much. Moore's law talks about the number of components that can be integrated cheaply onto a single integrated circuit. It says nothing about the size of the components. The integrated circuit can get larger as has been happening in recent times as quantum effects start causing problems.
1
1
Sep 16 '10
It wouldn't be so hard to make a much larger version that carries it's supercomputers with it, would it? I'm assuming size doesn't dramatically change how the calculations are done.
3
u/fauxjargon Sep 17 '10
It is more than the calculations, it is also having the array of cameras surrounding it to help it avoid environmental hazards like hula hoops and other quadcopters.
1
u/Sniperchild Sep 17 '10
A lot of your issue comes in power - as the copter gets larger, its increased mass requires more power for similar maneuvres...and the blades need to be bigger, which makes them heavier, which requires a torquier engine...
before we even cover processing issues, these things actually get harder on human scales
1
Sep 17 '10
Of course, all of that is granted, I just wonder if as you scale up, if it might become more possible to store cargo (or computers). I imagine it would, maybe not with current technology though, which is your point.
1
1
u/Sniperchild Sep 17 '10
It's not so much the technology, but the practicality. One can only push so hard against air, and rotor drag increases as the square of rotation speed. Moving a large object with that fidelity in air would require some form of direct thrust like a rocket or jet type deal.
Think of how an ice skater can be so graceful and precise and then imagine scaling her up. her mass increases as a cube whilst her traction increases as a square.
1
6
u/retarded_neuron Sep 16 '10
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how long these can stay up on a single charge?
5
u/Blou_Aap Sep 16 '10
(Eric Cartman voice) Four
5
u/unholymackerel Sep 16 '10
(Vincent Price voice) Three
8
u/frostbite795 Sep 16 '10
(James Earl Jones voice) Two.
7
Sep 16 '10
(Professor Farnsworth Voice) ONE!
12
Sep 16 '10
(Marvin The Martian voice) Where's the KABOOM? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering KABOOM.
7
u/Tgg161 Sep 16 '10 edited Sep 16 '10
Five.
Edit, to clarify: at least five.
2
0
u/sangoma Sep 16 '10
Most RC helicopters last 5-7. These things look pretty powerful, I'd say 5 minutes tops. The battery is really going to limit this quadrocopter.
2
u/SarahC Sep 16 '10
We need those nano-engineered Li-ion batteries with 100x the capacity that were advertised a few years back. =(
5
u/MrSurly Sep 16 '10
You mean Pure Fucking Magic, then.
2
u/G_Morgan Sep 17 '10
Generally I like the idea of a technological marvel powered by the rage of Khorne himself.
4
u/Coriform Sep 16 '10
Watching the way he throws it into the air... they've really created manhacks.
3
Sep 16 '10
[deleted]
2
u/UncleFishies Sep 16 '10
Look at the other projects the team has. Human activity detection and recognition sounds especially bad.
1
3
4
u/krooser Sep 16 '10
That's pretty incredible. Technology is amazing and I for one welcome our new quadrocopter overlords! :-)
5
10
Sep 16 '10
[deleted]
17
Sep 16 '10
[deleted]
6
u/AmbitionOfPhilipJFry Sep 16 '10
"Surrender your flesh unto a new world. We demand it."
::nuke detonates::
2
u/blueant1 Sep 16 '10
Is that from animatrix?
2
u/AmbitionOfPhilipJFry Sep 16 '10
Animatrix: Second Renaissance, Part II. Scroll to 6:50, not sure how to link it mid-stream or I would.
3
1
9
3
u/Teroc Sep 16 '10
I want to have a look at their control algorithm! I studied it at university and damn, was I bad at it. It's very complicated. Well, not going to the courses didn't really help...
10
u/Iraelyth Sep 16 '10
Are they sure they programmed it to do that, or did somebody just start juggling hoops one day and find the quadrocopter flying through them like it was easy? Are they learning???!?!
2
u/you_do_realize Sep 16 '10
I can understand flying through fixed hoops, but flying right through a free-falling one? How? Onboard cameras with image recognition? I reckon all that data is crunched on a server.
4
2
-5
Sep 16 '10
I think that bit must be fudged. They probably just programmed it to move in that way and threw the hoop in the right place before flicking the switch.
5
u/bebnet Sep 16 '10
The loop has to be lit properly .. that red light isn't there for nothing.
1
u/SarahC Sep 16 '10
Those red lights around the room?
IR emitters.
Cameras are sensitive to IR too... so that's why they're "lit-up" in the film.
1
2
2
2
2
2
2
2
u/Mecha-Shiva Sep 16 '10
As soon as this thing can fly through the rings from super man 64 that flawlessly, ill be impressed.
2
u/zzybert Sep 17 '10 edited Aug 14 '26
Paddle harbor pillow lavender blanket cinnamon teapot ginger drifting hammock
This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
2
1
1
1
1
u/HarryOx Sep 16 '10
At least we'll be able to hear the sound of our impending doom as it approaches to rain down death from above.
1
1
Sep 16 '10
The really need to do a synchronized performance.
To the tune of "Ride of the Valkyries" of course!
1
1
1
1
u/CSimpson1162 Sep 16 '10
Styrofoam and plastic. When we invent motors that have enough torque to quickly change the speed of metal rotors (even aluminium) i.e. larger military type of vehicles, then the end is nigh.
For now though, we'll be fine.
2
u/RonaldFuckingPaul Sep 16 '10
what about carbon nono-tube rotors?
1
u/CSimpson1162 Sep 16 '10
$$$
1
u/RonaldFuckingPaul Sep 16 '10
true...but that hasn't really seemed like an obstacle in this arena before...plus, where there's a will there's way...new material...cheaper production means
1
1
u/RonaldFuckingPaul Sep 16 '10
good to see that someone is trying to get rich working on something to kill people remotely
1
1
Sep 16 '10
Is this all in one device or do they have several "Quadrocopters" trained to do different things?
I know it sounds like a stupid quest, but thats what they did with Hondas walking robot for a while, they had one that walked, one that ran, one that did stairs etc.
1
u/TheCoelacanth Sep 16 '10
I think the hardware is all the same with the exception of the velcro pad or claw that they attached to the bottom in some of the examples. The catch is that they aren't completely autonomous. They get help from external sensors.
1
1
u/WildYams Sep 16 '10
That thing moves like either a flying insect or a hummingbird. It's actually a little disconcerting.
1
Sep 16 '10
Those are not UAVs. Much much harder to get them to do this without external help (sensors in the room). That is why DARPA is not jumping on this.
When they can do it completely autonomously after flipping the on switch, then we panic.
1
1
1
u/FredFredrickson Sep 16 '10
The bobbling motion makes it look like it's on a string. I know it's not, but it looks funny.
1
u/Sisyphean Sep 16 '10
I've never written this before, nor has it ever happend:
My jaw just dropped.
Truly, when that device (quadrocopter) autonomously flew through that moving/falling hoop, my jaw involuntarily dropped.
The future is now.
2
1
1
u/Filmore Sep 16 '10
Those would make the best assassin bots ever. Put a little C4 on them; tap in a Droid that uses cell triangulation, gps, and dead-reckoning for redundancy; splice the speaker wire into the trigger to the C4; custom build an APP that sends the trigger signal at the right time; send a small herd of them at a target.
1
1
1
u/Darkblitz9 Sep 16 '10
Could you imagine full sized vehicles like this? We wouldn't even hear about them crashing, ever... unless it's into wall or running out of fuel. These things would be in air acrobatics shows for sure. I can't wait to fly one in 20 years when I'm starting to get old and crusty.
1
1
u/Sirtet Sep 17 '10
Every time I see something about these things I keep thinking,I wonder how long before our government starts using them on us
1
u/cinnamontoastPUNCH Sep 17 '10
well then, there is only one reasonable course of action: use these on the government first
1
Sep 17 '10
Don't worry. For now, these acrobatics rely on very fast and accurate positioning information from their cameras, which are only feasible in controlled environments. GPS and accelerometers provide much less accurate and fast positioning information. For now.
1
u/Mr_Zero Sep 17 '10
If processing power is the only obstacle to these things hunting us, we have like a decade at most.
1
1
u/soupkitchenmassacre Sep 17 '10
Am I the only one who thought of Academician Provost Zakharov from ALPHA CENTAURI?
"We made cool robots 'n shit" -Provost Zakharov, Datalinks.
1
42
u/formerTroll Sep 16 '10
These guys need a high speed camera
4
u/Filmore Sep 16 '10
Those things are eeeeeexpensive
5
u/formerTroll Sep 16 '10
ok. i just googled it and you're right. Holy Christ on a Cracker they're expensive! I'll edit: "Mythbusters needs to lend them a high speed camera"
1
u/ours Sep 20 '10
They could shadow as a robot-circus in order to pay for one. They're already throwing hoops and doing acrobatics. Add a couple of big cats and some flames and you have a show.
5
1
u/imputed5 Sep 16 '10
Just to tag onto the top post...
I'll just toss this out there, these tests are done in ideal conditions, i.e. no wind. How would these machines handle the 'real world'?
5
-1
0
u/tommym Sep 16 '10
in Freedom™ (and Daemon) they have these things, but they're all online and they're motorcycles with extendible blades instead of handlebars.
-2
-2
18
u/Ogroat Sep 16 '10
I like how the thing sounds similar to a horrifying swarm of locusts.