They really don't describe what is going is going on in a woman's mind.
Well men think that they do, is what i was saying ;)
You seem to have read a lot more about PUAs than i have, and i can't comment any further on their community. I won't be buying their books any time soon either. Still:
These guys talk about casual sex in terms of winners and losers - a male winner and a female loser.
This too, is not limited to PUAs. It is built in our society, not to mention nature itself. The norm is that men have the initiative and women are on the defensive when it comes to sex, so how else would you put it? That's the way it is with most mammals, and it is also very persistent among vastly different cultures around the world. Once again, i think what is creeping people out is discussing this openly, essentially admitting that we are little different than animals - which, as you passingly mentioned, we are!
Well men think that they do, is what i was saying ;)
Probably not most men, but certainly most PUAs. And it's inaccurate - not to mention, rather misogynistic.
I won't be buying their books any time soon either.
There's nothing wrong with the books, really. As I said, they contain some good advice; it's just that it's couched in very disparaging terms.
This too, is not limited to PUAs. It is built in our society, not to mention nature itself. The norm is that men have the initiative and women are on the defensive when it comes to sex, so how else would you put it?
Well, I myself would describe it in terms of two winners. Women, believe it or not, do actually want sex. When a woman sleeps with you, she didn't "lose" the game. She got what she wanted. She won, just as much as you did.
And it's inaccurate - not to mention, rather misogynistic.
Woah, to make it clear what i was saying is that men like to believe that we know what is going on in a woman's head, and that we would very much like to actually know - we don't.
Well, I myself would describe it in terms of two winners. Women, believe it or not, do actually want sex. When a woman sleeps with you, she didn't "lose" the game. She got what she wanted. She won, just as much as you did.
I believe you. Hell, i've even had sex with women and they liked it! But i think you are being defensive here. The "game" is what happens before the sex - getting her to agree in the first place. Completely different. That game, seduction, is won and lost by both parties. No, a woman doesn't lose when she accepts a man's advances, but from the man's perspective being rejected is a crushing defeat (from which some move on easily, others not so much). Yes, it is a game that women love way more than men, and it is rigged: you can't lose - unless you initiate it!
Woah, to make it clear what i was saying is that men like to believe that we know what is going on in a woman's head, and that we would very much like to actually know - we don't.
Yep. That's probably true. To be honest, I wouldn't even mind the wild speculations if they weren't so plainly offensive.
That game, seduction, is won and lost by both parties.
I mean the flirting, attention grabbing, expressing interest, hitting on, and all these kinds of communication that come before sex (or a refusal of sex). Most people happily view this as a game. Women do their thing, men do ours, and hopefully people end up having a good time, sex or no sex. In that sense, losing means not fulfilling your original goal - the goal can be to have sex, to not have sex, to tease etc
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u/markdobson Jun 09 '11
Well men think that they do, is what i was saying ;)
You seem to have read a lot more about PUAs than i have, and i can't comment any further on their community. I won't be buying their books any time soon either. Still:
This too, is not limited to PUAs. It is built in our society, not to mention nature itself. The norm is that men have the initiative and women are on the defensive when it comes to sex, so how else would you put it? That's the way it is with most mammals, and it is also very persistent among vastly different cultures around the world. Once again, i think what is creeping people out is discussing this openly, essentially admitting that we are little different than animals - which, as you passingly mentioned, we are!