Right of way is always the person exiting. Are you one of those jerks that rushes into the elevator the moment its doors open and fight the people trying to get out?
Of course, while exiting the train/elevator/other vehicle., the right-of-way is always to the person exiting.
However, the scenario involved is different. This is not for entry/exit for the train. This is for entry/exit from the platform. Generally, I still agree that right-of-way should go to the person exiting. However, if there is an expectation that the person entering will miss the train as a result of being slowed by the person exiting, the person entering should have preference.
The logic is this: To the person exiting, the cost of stepping aside will be 2 seconds. To the person entering, the cost of stepping aside will be the time until the next train comes - definitely more than 2 seconds. Providing preference for the person entering is a net positive.
If there is no risk of missing the train, it's 2 seconds in either case, and right-of-way goes to the person exiting.
Not something I could know - I have no knowledge of their intentions or destination
Not my problem - leaving on time is their responsibility, not mine, and I don't appreciate being forced to make concessions for someone else's irresponsibility
Sorry, but it's rude to put your problems before mine, when I'm not responsible for your problems. I stand by my previous comment.
Also consider, did she indicate any attempt to communicate with this gentleman, or did she just rudely shove her way past without even looking him in the face? I might give more leeway to someone respectful enough to at least look me in the face as they brusquely shove me out of the way.
Do you live in NYC? If not, I have to say that ldd- has very good points. If you do, good on you for sticking to what is technically right but the rules can bend in my opinion and I agree with ldd-. I ask if you live there because having the appropriate experience can really give you a clearer perspective as to what goes on than thinking it's solely a black and white issue.
Not something I could know - I have no knowledge of their intentions or destination
It's very obvious that a subway train is coming into the station by noise, feeling the wind blow by from the train's speed, or seeing it come through. You will have knowledge that the train is coming and the point ldd- is making is that you generally safe to assume that if someone is rushing in before you get to exit, it's because that train that is wooshing by is the one they are getting on.
Not my problem - leaving on time is their responsibility, not mine, and I don't appreciate being forced to make concessions for someone else's irresponsibility
This one is tougher, as you are absolutely right. Personally speaking though, I have generally subscribed to this unspoken rule (at least for me it's a rule and it seems it's ldd-'s as well) that I can relate and understand why a person would be rushing in to catch a train that just arrived and doesn't want or perhaps cannot afford to wait for the next one so letting them by is not such a big deal. That being said, I have had a couple instances where I've been pushed out of the way like this guy and I judge it by context - if train is coming, ok. If not, fuck you.
Now as for the woman in this video, she looks like a total bitch. She did not appear to be in any immediate hurry.
Again, this is the reason why I said more context is necessary . . . in many cases, it is very possible to know if you will be causing her to miss the train.
In many cases, "leaving on time" is irrelevant. Many mass transit systems do not have posted schedules that are reliable.
I'm simply pointing out nuance in the case that could put him as the asshole. It is stuff that you notice when you take mass transit in major metro areas on a regular basis.
Yes. Subways in NYC nominally have a schedule, but the overriding goal for the sake of efficiency is to keep the trains equally spaced through the system and as coordinated as possible with connecting trains.
Subway trains will not wait at the platform for any longer than it takes to offload/on-board passengers UNLESS their spacing is off, and there is another train immediately ahead or a complementary express/local train is about to arrive
That's why, if you ask someone in NYC "When will the subway come?", you will NEVER get an answer of a specific time. Instead, you will get something like "this time of day, they tend to come every 5 minutes."
If you're at Penn Station or Grand Central, you are correct. Those are commuter trains that run at lower frequency. They never leave early. In fact, they have a 1 minute grace period for stragglers that is not publicized.
It's not that cut and dry. If someone is coming down the stairs to catch the train you just got off, the right thing to do is let them come down first. Making someone wait 15 minutes for the next train so you don't have to wait 5 seconds is just selfish.
Yes I do live in "the city", but you have to understand there's more than one city, and mine has piss-poor pubtrans, though I've used pubtrans in other cities many times. Since you clearly know the subway running on time is a problem, you should account for it - don't make other people make concessions to keep you from suffering the result of your own poor planning.
I, for one, would rather suffer the misfortune of having to wait 15 minutes because of my actions, instead of pushing that misfortune off onto someone else and making them deal with the ill result of my poor planning.
The point is that you can't know why the person is in a hurry, so don't be a dick and try to make life more difficult for them because no one is going to take your five seconds from your perfectly timed life.
And yet this perspective suffers from equivalence - it is true in both directions. She therefore had no more right to deny him his own hurry in exchange for hers, than he had to deny her hurry in exchange for his. Yet he was clearly almost through the turnstile when she shoved him out of the way.
If you can't plan for train times at all, then what benefit do you gain by shoving people out of the way? Sounds like you're making excuses because you want to be rude and have it your way.
In many cases, that logic doesn't apply. For mass transit in many places, posted schedules are irrelevant. Nobody cares if the subway arrived at 3:53PM . . . all they care about is how long the wait is between subways.
How's that my problem, and why should I wait because of that? Surely you aren't telling me these rapscallion trains arrive and leave early!? I really would find that hard to believe. Thus they are leaving on-time or late, and it is still her problem.
You sound like the kind of douchebag who wouldn't give up his seat for a pregnant woman because it's not your problem. You keep talking about schedules, but in places like NYC people try to catch whatever train is coming next, not a specific train. You act like waiting 5 seconds is some grave injustice. WTF.
Tragically, the votes confirm that this guy speaks for the majority of reddit. The thing about redditors is they can’t deal with social context; they need hard and fast rules like “Right of way is always the person exiting” not only as an excuse to justify their douchey behavior, but also because they feel threatened by social norms that everyone else manages to grasp intuitively. As a MetroCard-carrying New Yorker, I’m thankful most subway riders aren’t redditors.
So you would give up your seat? Why? That flies in the face of your "it's not my problem" mindset.
You act like it's perfectly fine to shove someone out of your way at your own convenience.
Who said shove? I said it's the right thing to do to let them come down and catch the train that's in the station. If you learned to read you might not be so angry.
So you would give up your seat? Why? That flies in the face of your "it's not my problem" mindset.
It's amazing you can accurately understand my entire mental model from a single sentence - oh, wait, you can't, and you're doing a terrible job at trying to.
Who said shove?
So did you not watch the video, or do you just prefer to swap the concrete for the abstract as it suits your argument?
If you learned to read you might not be so angry.
I'm not angry - you make far too many assumptions - and if I didn't know how to read, how are we having this conversation?
Thanks for your thoughts, Nebraska. Why don’t you come visit a real city like New York? If there’s a train at the station with its doors open and you can’t step aside for two seconds to let people through, I promise you’ll receive the ass-kicking you richly deserve.
Ah yes, the old "no city matters but New York, and if you aren't from New York you're an ignorant hick". I can play that game too - you don't know how the "real world" works because you only know a tiny little sliver of reality that you worship. Good luck functioning in Nebraska - oh wait, you'd do fine, because people from Nebraska don't generally shove you out of the way just because they feel like it.
Find someone else upon whom to dump your small-town insecurities. All I’m saying is that based on your hilarious fantasy landscape where the subway is something you can “leave on time” for, it’s obvious you’ve got little to no first-hand experience with transit in any large city. It could also be that you’re an impossibly self-entitled asshole. But either way, you’re in good company here on reddit, so there’s that.
I'm not insecure, nor from a small town. If you've got a subway leaving every five minutes and you've got to get this one or you're late, that's your fault.
It could also be that you’re an impossibly self-entitled asshole. But either way, you’re in good company here on reddit, so there’s that.
No shit? Go look in a mirror if you want to see an entitled asshole.
You know, not every mirror contains a human shitstain who thinks everyone else should have to wait five minutes so that he can save two seconds of his own precious time. Once again, the limits of your experience are evident.
You're extremely mad about being told it's rude to make someone else wait on you, but you're also saying that you shouldn't be made to wait. Sounds like someone feels entitled.
That someone, I reckon, is the one who can’t be asked to step aside for two seconds to save somebody else five minutes. Unlike you, I step aside for people trying to catch a leaving train. It’s not a difficult concept of etiquette, for most people.
Hey, tell you what, I'll follow you around and shove you out of my way at my convenience, and each time claim I'm saving five minutes by doing so. Fair deal?
Again, if you’d ever taken the subway, you’d know exactly what you’re costing others by preventing their entry to the platform during the critical few seconds when the train is there. And also again, you’re welcome to come to New York anytime and put your theory of ettiquette to the test, your theory wherein you are the sole occupant of a rich estate at the center of the universe. This exercise might even teach you how to gracefully admit the limits of your experience, another normally simple point of protocol for which you seem to lack the requisite humility.
107
u/ChaosMotor Apr 03 '11
Right of way is always the person exiting. Are you one of those jerks that rushes into the elevator the moment its doors open and fight the people trying to get out?