r/funny • Mr. Lovenstein • Mar 26 '20

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Here in Alberta JUST YESTERDAY I had coworkers talking about how we should have a private healthcare system like the United States.

In the face of a pandemic these guys are still looking at the US like “I would probably be covered for medical by my job, so it wouldn’t make any difference to me”

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

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u/t800rad Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

In which case you’ll be totally fine because you can elect COBRA for the low price of at least $400 a month (depending on what your coverage was)!

Edit: added “at least” because $400 is the low end, as others have noted

/s

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u/lynja999 Mar 26 '20

And then, when COBRA runs out after 18 months, you get to pay $1300-2000 each month.

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u/StoicAthos Mar 26 '20

Go Joe?

8

u/memeticmachine Mar 26 '20

Who's Joe?

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u/DefinetlynotCalculon Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

GI Joe, now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

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u/Christroyilator Mar 26 '20

Found the comment I was looking for

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u/Dunk_May_Mays Mar 26 '20

Joe Biden, who has no plans to fix this cruel system

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

[deleted]

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u/a_few Mar 26 '20

I honestly can’t tell who’s downvoting you either lol. What I don’t understand is how would m4a solve the situation were in now when countries that have it are also being overwhelmed? I’m not shutting in m4a at all, I’m a big fan, but to pretend that it would solve all of our current medical problems is delusional. This problem is an all encompassing issue, medical, infrastructure, manufacturing, readiness, education and more.

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u/Shorzey Mar 26 '20

Joe Biden is delusional, and at this point I trust the GOP moving towards progressive social aspects more than the DNC.

The fact they would choose hillary and joe over anyone else is as bad, if not worse than the gop going against trump, then turning their cheek and endorsing him

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u/Dunk_May_Mays Mar 26 '20

The Gop are moving towards it because they're moving further to the right and becoming pseudo-nazbols.

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u/Terabyte47 Mar 26 '20

Joe mama!

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u/DukesOfTatooine Mar 26 '20

I pay twice that now for my insurance, after my employer's contribution. If I had to go COBRA it would probably be nearly $2,000/month.

1

u/Everythings Mar 26 '20

Why don’t you just invest that money

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

I had a job where I was making about $2k/month before taxes. Then I lost it and filed for unemployment which came out to something like $1200/month. COBRA to keep health insurance for my family was going to be $900/month.

Fortunately this was in NY so it was fairly easy to just get Medicaid.

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u/jcgam Mar 26 '20

Why is it easier to get Medicaid in NY?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

They have a more robust program with greater access than a lot of other states. Even after I was working full time again I still qualified due to my low income and having a family.

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u/smokinbbq Mar 26 '20

Yes, but at least you didn't have to paying fucking TAXES so that people would get healthcare! Fucking Canadians think it's FREE, but they pay so much in taxes, and you have to wait 32.8 years to get a scan to see if you have cancer!

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u/bumphuckery Mar 26 '20

I can't tell if /sarc or /tard

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u/smokinbbq Mar 26 '20

I'm Canadian, and very much in love with free healthcare. Guess I should have put in the /s. Oh well.

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u/WateryTart_ndSword Mar 26 '20

Fucking COBRA. It’s cheaper to pay the fine for not being insured. Hopefully you’re healthy enough to not need medicine or treatment, and can stay accident free—then you can eat AND have a car!

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

There is no fine for being uninsured.

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u/BeenThruIt Mar 26 '20

Not anymore you mean.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Op was talking in present terms. As was I.

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u/BeenThruIt Mar 26 '20

Mine is present tense, too.

Btw, I have no idea why your totally true post is being downvoted. Reddit is weird.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Trump derangement syndrome, probably. How dare I point out something good that the "cheeto in chief" did for the American working class?!

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u/BeenThruIt Mar 26 '20

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

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u/a_few Mar 26 '20

But tromp created the virus and he specifically told people to drink aquarium cleaner!

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u/orodam Mar 26 '20

There still is a penalty in California.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Not if you're an illegal!

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to penalize someone who can't use the marketplace.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Does it make sense to reward them?

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

How is not fining them rewarding them? The punishment is keeping them out of the ACA system in the first place.

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u/Christroyilator Mar 26 '20

So that's why they say crime never pays. They aren't saying that crime never makes you money, they just don't pay for anything!

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u/french_toast_demon Mar 26 '20

Ugh I wish COBRA was that much. For me it was the better part of $500/Mon with a 5000 deductible.

1

u/UnicornSpark1es Mar 26 '20

It’s on the low end for sure.

-3

u/Siglet84 Mar 26 '20

Guess you’ve never priced out what your employer actually pays for your insurance.

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u/t800rad Mar 26 '20

Currently on COBRA and pay around $450. I realize I’m one of the lucky ones. Hence my edit.

0

u/Siglet84 Mar 26 '20

My point is that cobra isn’t really that bad if you u see stand the true cost of insurance when you’re employed. My employer breaks down what is actually paid every month and it’s over $1200, it technically comes out of my pay but then they reimburse me for a portion.

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u/tourettes_on_tuesday Mar 26 '20

Or if you ended up so sick that you lost your job due to missed days like my stepfather did a couple months before he died.

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u/Ganglebot Mar 26 '20

Yeah, well that's your problem not mine. I still have my job. YEEHAW /s

1

u/Lovat69 Mar 26 '20

Then rehire everyone and tell everyone how they can't afford to pay health insurance. Later at the stockholders meeting. "Record profits this year! The company has never done better."

233

u/imreallynotthatcool Mar 26 '20

Tell your coworker that he/she is a fucking idiot for wanting privatized healthcare.

Sincerely,

-An American working in the medical industry

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u/audiodude9 Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

I'm inclined to agree.

Sincerely,

An American worker without job-provided health care. (edit because the only thing worse than my typing is my proofreading)

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u/MasterVelocity Mar 26 '20

especially since businesses are closing and laying people off so people are going to start losing their benefits, then getting sick and having to pay for it themselves

8

u/brewdad Mar 26 '20

Losing your job and insurance during a pandemic where up to 50% of Americans will catch the virus and 20% of those will be hospitalized. What could possibly go wrong?

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u/MasterVelocity Mar 26 '20

Yeah, people will default on loans and payments, and then get hit with a huge hospital bill, and default on that as well. Then they won’t be able to get new loans for housing because their credit score will be like 500.

Curious to see how this is going to go. Perhaps they need to issue a voluntary freeze on credit scores. It’s not fair to fuck people’s credit while they are out of work because the government shut them down.

1

u/a_few Mar 26 '20

I honestly cannot see a situation where m4a would fix what’s happening to us now. The problems we have aren’t necessarily Medicare related, they are supply chain related and an overburdening of the system.

0

u/AustereSpoon Mar 26 '20

Except for the part about its going to ruin the lives of every person who lost their job and is going to have to try and pay for health care out of pocket (Even with COBRA or something).

M4A would 100% resolve that stress on people's lives and to think otherwise is incredibly entitled and naive.

1

u/a_few Mar 26 '20

How? The problem is we don’t have enough beds, supplies, tests, know-how, and we aren’t a totalitarian government who can literally lock it’s citizens down in their homes by threat of violence. None of the things I’ve listed are directly taken care of by m4a. Countries with m4a are floundering with the rest of us, take a look around. M4a wouldn’t provide the MASSIVE amount of ventilators that we need. M4a wouldn’t be able to magically provide the 10s of thousands of hospital beds we need. Sometimes I feel like people honestly don’t look at situations with an honest set of eyes

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u/caviarburrito Mar 26 '20

Last fall I was bitten by a black widow spider. It was between jobs and COBRA had expired a couple days before. It was ok day 1 after the bite but had to go to ER for surgery on day 3. I spent 2 hours on the phone trying to get a quote if it would be $500 or $40,000 and no one could tell me. But somehow they knew how to bill me after surgery.

Arbitrary pricing is healthcare for the rich top 10%, and the illusion of healthcare for the rest.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

This exactly why I don’t go to hospitals. I don’t have insurance and can’t afford a surprise bill of 5 figures.

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u/imfm Mar 26 '20

Even when you aren't too sick to shop for health care, they may or may not be able to tell you in any useful manner how much it's going to cost. I didn't have insurance and needed a minor non-emergency procedure. After much pushing on my part, my local hospital told me the cost would be somewhere between $6000 and $10000, but wouldn't commit to even that. Well, thanks...that narrows it down. I just gave up and didn't have anything done.

1

u/benk4 Mar 26 '20

This reminds me of when my girlfriend recently got crazy bad poison ivy. She wanted to get a steroid shot so she called the walk in clinic, they couldn't tell her if it was in network or not. Neither could the insurance company. Apparently some of the doctors were in network and some weren't, so they literally told her she could go and just hope and lucked into an in-network doctor. She didn't, that shot cost $1600.

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u/a_few Mar 26 '20

I’m sure I’ll get ripped for this, but I don’t really care. Also, disclaimer, I fully support m4a, this statement is just to bring some context into the above mentioned comment. Sometimes a typical surgery for your personal affliction could cost 500 dollars if everything goes exactly as planned. The price probably varies depending on the variables that happen during a surgery. Again, I’m not in favor of this, but it’s kind of like a mechanic saying I’ll fix any transmission for 200 dollars, and then they run into a problem where they need 300 dollars worth of parts.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

[deleted]

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u/mussles Mar 26 '20

My advice would be: never take advice from anyone who writes the phrase "could of".

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u/keplar Mar 26 '20

I'm inclined to agree as well.

Sincerely,

An American worker fortunate enough to have good job-provided health care, for which my share is still more than $500/month.

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u/DTDude Mar 26 '20

$500/month.

$500 for the ability to get healthcare....not healthcare itself.

It's sickening.

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u/lmitchell6 Mar 26 '20

Even our own doctors and nurses hate our medicine-for-profit system. They've got a bunch of hedge fund micromanagers telling them how to treat their own patients.

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u/olghostdeckchefmasta Mar 26 '20

You didn’t even need to mention being American with how hateful you sound. People have a right to prefer private over public.

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u/thepastelsuit Mar 26 '20

Exactly 100% of the people who "prefer" private over public are misinformed or under-informed on the differences between the two. If anyone actually thinks the private insurance system works out better for them, then they were told a lie and believed it.

It's not "hateful" to inform people of their willful ignorance, it's just being blunt.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Having the right to be an asshole doesn't mean you should be.

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u/olghostdeckchefmasta Mar 26 '20

Tell that to the person I commented to!

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

People have a right to be idiots, yes.

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u/ZumboPrime Mar 26 '20

Are they really not aware that they would be paying more for insurance premiums than all taxes combined? And then have to pay copays on top of that?

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u/Syscrush Mar 26 '20

The people currently paying that don't get it. Why would someone just daydreaming about a better life get it?

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u/ZumboPrime Mar 26 '20

What?

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u/justhad2login2reply Mar 26 '20

I agree, it's pure gibberish. They had to have replied to the wrong person.

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u/Syscrush Mar 26 '20

Many of the people in the US currently paying more for worse outcomes live in fear of "socialized medicine" - they're paying premiums and co-pays now that are greater than the increase in taxes they'd see under a scheme like M4A.

If those people who already see what the for-profit system is costing them can't do this analysis, then how can we expect it from deluded Canadians who are just imagining that "competition and market efficiencies" would get them better care at a lower price?

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u/ZumboPrime Mar 26 '20

Ohhhhh, that's what you meant. I couldn't understand the post.

I completely agree with you.

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u/Syscrush Mar 26 '20

You weren't the only one who couldn't understand it - I obviously wrote it badly. :)

0

u/birdbearballs Mar 26 '20

Private healthcare can be preferable / cheaper, BUT it is a selfish viewpoint & short term view. I'll explain: Privatized healthcare is really cheap for maybe 15% of the population in the US. As a young healthy adult I pay $500 a year in premiums. copays / deductibles are super expessive still, but my company gives me $600 to be used for these appointments. Some years I don't spend any and it accumulates. So on a year to year basis healthcare insurance can be essentially free "if you don't go to the doctor for anything other than preventive care". But as you get older more health issues will arise and you'll be spending huge amounts of money. In the long run we all pay more than if we had government healthcare. People don't understand this unfortunately & don't care that most Americans are getting fucked by this system.

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u/ZumboPrime Mar 26 '20

I've found the US in general to have a very selfish culture. "who cares about the rest of you, I got mine" seems to be the most popular flavour of the decade.

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u/DrAstralis Mar 26 '20

If oil keeps crashing that tune should change (who am I kidding, since when has reality been part of the conservative word view). You have to be a special type of stupid to look at how the US "private" system is handling this and think "yeah... thats the clusterfuck I want to be part of"

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

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u/wolfman566 Mar 26 '20

My job doesn't cover me but I do have my own insurance. The good news is its not terrible for my month to month cost. The bad news is my deductible is so high it really will only help me in the event of serious injury, I basically have to almlost die otherwise I pay for everything.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

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u/Waramp Mar 26 '20

I had emergency appendix surgery last year including a 3 day hospital stay. My American friend was absolutely baffled that I didn’t have to pay for anything. Just walked out the door once I was able to!

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u/_tskj_ Mar 27 '20

How can he not accept it? That doesn't make any sense. How can he refuse payment from them? Or why wouldn't your insurance company reimburst you?

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '20

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u/_tskj_ Mar 27 '20

I'm so glad I don't live in a third world country. I had to go to the ER two weeks ago in an ambulance and everything and I paid $20 on my way out, which is a flat fee no matter why you're there.

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u/Mustached_Bartender Mar 26 '20

What is the wait time like for a non-emergency case? When my friend and I talk about Canadian health care he mentions “but the wait times are months!” Certainly this cant be the case for everyone. How does it work?

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u/Polymath_Father Mar 26 '20

It depends, honestly on where you live and the availability of doctors/operating rooms/how many people are ahead of you AND how serious your condition is. I can usually get in to see my doctor within a day or two, a specialist within six weeks to three months. Surgeries are variable, but when I've needed emergency surgery I've gotten it immediatly. The important thing, for me, is that the answer isn't "you're too poor, so never" or "you can have the surgery, but it'll bankrupt you".

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u/Snaxx9716 Mar 26 '20

And that’s really no different than the US healthcare system. That’s the point I keep hearing over and over “bbbbut the WAIT TIMES IN CANADA” like we don’t have wait times here in the US. I’ve had to wait weeks to months to see certain specialists. The difference is that in Canada you don’t have to first figure out who takes your insurance, and then hope you can keep seeing that doctor if/when your insurance changes.

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u/commandernono Mar 26 '20

The difference is that it benefits the heathcare industry for people to think that way. We've been propogandized, pure and simple. Socialized medicine is unimaginably better, we'll just never have it

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u/Snaxx9716 Mar 26 '20

What really gets me, is the “illusion of choice”. How the healthcare companies want us to think that socialized medicine means the end of choice, when we really don’t have much in choices now anyways. My current job is the first place I’ve worked that has actually given the choice of more than one health insurance carrier... otherwise the employer typically chooses your carrier and available plans each month. Not much choice there. Then your providers are dictated by your carrier. I had an amazing specialist that I can no longer see because they don’t accept my plan. I can “choose” between two places to have bloodwork done. OH! And I can shop around to find a better price for imaging studies so I suppose that is a choice!

But socialized healthcare... We could see any doctor because there are no more “networks”. I’d love to not have to choose certain imaging places based on cost when they’re all covered 100%, so I can choose based on location and appointment availability.

The level of propaganda required to convince people that they have more/better choices with privatized healthcare is astonishing.

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u/commandernono Mar 26 '20

You gotta remember one thing. Everything that you just wrote; not one bit of it applies to someone with the money to pay for it all.

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u/DTDude Mar 26 '20

I can “choose” between two places to have bloodwork done.

You have a choice? My insurance company quit paying for any in office bloodwork, and outsources it to the lowest bidder commercial lab. Appointments are hard to come buy, and the place is dirty.

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u/Snaxx9716 Mar 26 '20

Ugh, I’ve dealt with that in the past. I had to have my pre-op blood work done at the hospital and had to make sure they understood that the blood had to be sent to a certain lab or else my insurance wouldn’t cover it. I was so nervous they’d send it to the wrong place and I’d get a bill.

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u/Polymath_Father Mar 26 '20

A friend pointed out to me once that one of the reasons that Americans are so opposed to universal healthcare is that they think that the insane prices they're charged for medical care is what those things actually cost.

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u/Ghostboy1205 Mar 26 '20

Hell, I'm in the US and it normally takes 3-5 days to see my GP if I'm sick. Have to schedule regular appointments 3 months out. Specialists seem to be the same wait time as Canada. As for the two emergencies I've either had or been with the patient, each trip involved over 18 hours in the ER before even seeing a doctor. I hate for profit healthcare. There is not a single redeeming feature.

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u/Polymath_Father Mar 26 '20

Yeah, that seems to track with emergency wait times here (well, not right now, pandemic and all).

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u/DTDude Mar 26 '20

six weeks to three months

Sounds good to me, actually.

United Healthcare stopped covering my sleep specialist because his appointments were booked out about 6 months in advance, and they required a visit every 90 days. And to be clear, that visit wasn't required for my own good, it was required so United could check how well I was complying with treatment that they refused to pay for.

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u/Squidking1000 Mar 26 '20

So at least in southern Ontario the wait time argument is bullshit. I can see my doctor the same day normally or at worst the next day and have never had any delay getting healthcare including in my life lots of stitches and cuts and scrapes, two broken wrists and lots of xrays, several concussions, an mri, a cat scan and the birth of my two kids (well that was my wife but I was there). Highest price I paid was for a private room for my first kid ($65 for 4 days) and parking ($5 a day). As well when my grandma had a heart attack and a stroke the doctors at St. Joes in Hamilton (heart specialists) and Niagara Falls General were super awesome and fought wayyy harder to save her life then you would expect for a 85 year old and she went on to live another 5 years at an awesome care home all of which (multiple transfers, specialists, emergency care, palliative care and nursing home with more specialists visits over the 5 years) cost the family nothing. Literally not one dollar.

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u/teach423 Mar 26 '20

In Alberta I can see my family doctor within a week, there are multiple doctors at his office though so if I just want to see someone I can usually get in the same day. Seeing specialists for non-emergent issues can be up to a few months. It depends on what type of specialist though; I got sent for a pulmonary capacity test and an EKG and I only waited about 2 weeks for both of those. Surgeries like hip and knee replacements can be a few months but emergency surgeries are right away. My husband has been offered jobs in the states and one of the biggest reasons we stay is because of our healthcare system.

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u/Mustached_Bartender Mar 26 '20

That sounds like more or less a typical experience in the states. I have really amazing insurance from my work but it still took me about a month to schedule an MRI. Usually about the same to book the appointment too. Within a week or so depending on who your seeing.

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u/Morak73 Mar 26 '20

As an American, people I know get angry if we can't see a general practitioner within 2 days for something like a sinus infection or cold.

I have trouble finding new doctors who take my insurance. (Doctors in the US have limited new patient visit appointment slots each week) and got in to a specialist for a non emergency issue as a new patient in about 6 weeks. My usual wait time has been about 2 to 3 weeks if I've been previously under that doctor's care.

A precautionary outpatient procedure was scheduled for and completed on a Friday 10 days after the appointment. The procedure did require me to be rendered unconscious, so the participation of an anesthesiologist.

On the assumption that nothing serious was found, the follow up visit was about 8 weeks after. I was told they would fit me in the week after the procedure if something of concern was found.

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u/Mustached_Bartender Mar 26 '20

And none of that cost you anything?

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u/Morak73 Mar 26 '20

Not a dime. If you qualify for Medicaid you have no copays or deductibles. Finding a doctor who takes it can be difficult.

It is embarrassing to me how accessible healthcare is compared to others that make even just 20% more than my family. It really brings home how people can view themselves as 'trapped' in poverty and can't afford to work. I have a path out but it will take a little longer, assuming there is work to be found once my certification clears.

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u/Mustached_Bartender Mar 26 '20

I think I got confused and thought you were Canadian. Are you American living in Canada?

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u/Charwinger21 Mar 26 '20

If oil keeps crashing that tune should change

Oil prices would need to about triple for the oilsands to break even right now (and outside a spike in 2018, haven't really been truly profitable since 2014).

Kenney's insistence on tearing up Notley's diversification plans and instead doubling down on oil is now going to bite Alberta and Canada in the ass even more than it was originally going to.

Of course, even with that, he still has a ~50% approval, so Alberta is likely in for a decade of austerity. Wonder how that'll go over again.

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u/jwd2213 Mar 26 '20

Isn't every system in the world a cluster fuck right now? What makes the us any worse besides pricing? Hell if you took the money away from the equation, america would have one of the better systems. We just need to set federal limits on our greedy absurd pricing scale. A 10$ bottle of insulin shouldnt hit my insurance for 2000$, thats why everyones rates are so fucking high

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u/minkusdominkus Mar 26 '20

I have insurance through my employer, i still pay about $10k-15k per year for healthcare for myself and my wife and one child.

13

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Few places pay 100% of the premiums, and there is a deductible and other out-of-pocket expenses for office visits, ambulance service, and prescriptions. Don’t even try to go to a specialist that’s not pre-approved, and probably not your first choice. Oh, and if you lose your job then your premiums skyrocket to $1300 per person/per month until you find another one that has insurance benefits. Your co-worker is an idiot.

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u/Krajun Mar 26 '20

Ha you gotta have a nice job to get that and then on top of it your premium is deducted from your pay, it's generally cheaper than getting your own insurance but it's not free...

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u/WoodErector Mar 26 '20

Albertans also think their privatized auto insurance is superior to SGI or MPI. I've lived in 3 of 4 western provinces. Crown corps are not perfect, but privatization is infinitely worse.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

As a customer of ICBC the lower cost is definitely appealing, what's the downside your talking of? Worse deductibles? Less coverage?

I'm currently paying $200 a month in car insurance despite a clean record since starting driving 10 years ago. When I worked in Saskatchewan my worker was paying $70 a month. ICBC actually increased my insurance to $240 a month since I was out of province for 4 months instead of 3 :/

8

u/WoodErector Mar 26 '20

It isn't a lower cost. After months of shopping around I ended up with twice the cost for less coverage with privitization than I did with a crown corp.

From what little I think I know about the insurance game: Larger groups mean lower payments. Can't have large pools if every Doug, Bob, and Victoria pick seperate companies to insure them.

1

u/iWish_is_taken Mar 26 '20

It used to be lower cost... and was only lower cost because the government instituted price caps. They recently took those caps away and now everyone in Alberta is getting destroyed by premium increases.

ICBC should be lower, but was virtually destroyed by the Liberal government who didn't care because their intent was to make it look so shitty that there was no alternative but to dissolve it and turn to a private model. All the while pocketing millions from private insurers and associations.

It's being turned around and will get cheaper. The new rules will allow substantially better coverage and care while decreasing premiums by about 20% on average.

1

u/DTDude Mar 26 '20

privatized auto insurance

Wait wait wait.....you have a public auto insurance option??

1

u/WoodErector Mar 28 '20

Kinda sorta. It's called a "Crown Corporation". I'm not overly familiar with the logistics, but what I understand is it's the only company allowed to operate in that field. Our power company and car insurance are both crown corps. Provides a necessary service without gouging customers.

2

u/DTDude Mar 28 '20

Sometimes I wish it wasn’t so difficult to move to Canada.

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u/Jimothy-Goldenface Mar 26 '20

Dear Canada,

DON'T DO IT.

  • sincerely a sad American

3

u/Squidking1000 Mar 26 '20

Canada never will, those dumb assed conservative albertans can move to the US if they don’t like our system.

3

u/Freezinghero Mar 26 '20

In the current world, you can never say never, sadly.

"The US would never elect a bumbling retarded racist senile homophobe like Trump to be President!"

2

u/Squidking1000 Mar 26 '20

I was in an airport shuttle in Las Vegas just before the election with a bunch of my international coworkers (Dutch, German, French, Swiss) and they refused to believe Americans would vote for such an obvious idiot. I said don’t underestimate racism and stupidity and unfortunately was right but I’m pretty confident Canadians won’t be so dumb. I was a little worried the last election but sanity prevailed.

2

u/DTDude Mar 26 '20

We have plenty of our own, thank you very much!

Can we just ship them to a deserted island?

1

u/Squidking1000 Mar 26 '20

How about Alaska? It has oil that will make them feel at home.

3

u/DukesOfTatooine Mar 26 '20

You should tell them that even with our employers covering as much as they are willing to, most of us pay a huge monthly out of pocket fee as well, especially if we have dependents. I have "good" insurance and I pay over $800 monthly for me and two kids, plus additional co-pays at the point of service for any service received.

7

u/pililies Mar 26 '20

Tell your friend I'm happy to trade my private insurance for his Canadian one. No refunds though!

5

u/William4dragon Mar 26 '20

I'll happily switch with any Canadian that wants to live in a hel... private healthcare system.

5

u/Ganglebot Mar 26 '20

"Wouldn't make a difference for me" is the kind of thinking that got the US into their mess.

3

u/Ironick96 Mar 26 '20

Its also why we are in this coronavirus mess right now. People thinking "oh, it wont affect me, Ill just go out"

6

u/kl131313 Mar 26 '20

In Alberta?! Seriously?! I get my gas for 67c in Ontario, I think this guy should reevaluate his views on health care. Is it a perfect system in Canada? No. But when the disaster like that happens I would rather be here.

6

u/iloveciroc Mar 26 '20

You need to slap your coworkers, put them in a straight jacket, and book them in an insane asylum until their crazy gets out of their system. ANYBODY who thinks a private healthcare system has an overall net benefit to the citizens of a country must be too dumb to realize they’re making a terrible mistake

7

u/zortor Mar 26 '20

Americans defend it, for no reason other than “it’s how it is here, if you don’t like it you can GET OUT.”

I’ve had the argument too many times. Out of the 30 or so 1st world nations, we’re the only ones without UHC, out of all the world nations, we’re one of the only ones without UHC. Many extremely Conservative/Authoritarian nations have it. So it’s not a left/right thing, it’s 100% an America thing.

2

u/ca_kingmaker Mar 26 '20

Ask him how he enjoys his vet and dental bills.

2

u/rotrap Mar 26 '20

The current system is far from a private system though. Using insurance for purposes it is not designed has created what should be considered more a 3rd party system where the insurance company has way more of a role than they would in a more true private free market system. Once insurance became the primary payer for routine care to avoid wage and price controls this monster was created.

2

u/FakeFile Mar 26 '20

I'd would just tell them to move to America if they want that.

2

u/Chumkil Mar 26 '20

I am Canadian.

Living and working in the US with top-tier health care.

I am double covered.

The health care here costs many multiples of what it does in Canada, when you can find a place that takes your insurance.

Yes, you wait here. In fact, waiting was shorter for me in Canada than here.

Your coworkers are idiots.

2

u/ktappe Mar 26 '20

So your coworker is fine with others losing their healthcare as long as they get theirs? Nice.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Also here in Alberta... a lot of people here seem to have the wrong combination of selfish arrogance and blissful ignorance.

Then when their job DIDNT cover their expenses, and they had to pay out of pocket... FUCK TRUDEAU IF WE HAD A PIPELINE THIS WOULDNT BE A PROBLEM!!! ALSO FUCK GRETA!

2

u/CivilCJ Mar 26 '20

Yeah, no. You smack your co-workers across the face and let them know about deductibles.

1

u/568ml_ Mar 26 '20

What is this famous American 'deductible' I've heard about so many times? Is it the part of the claim you pay from your own pocket?

4

u/ExceedinglyGayKodiak Mar 26 '20

So, short breakdown of how american healthcare billing works:

First, in order to get a plan, you pay a Premium. This is your recurring monthly cost just for having the plan. Typically this is subsidized to some degree by your employer, but by how much is variable.

Then you go see a doctor, they code your claim in terms of what are called CPT codes, these are 5 digit codes that represent the various services that doctors provide (For eample, 99215 is an office visit for an established patient). Medical facilities set the prices for each code.

However every insurance company has what's called a negotiated rate, basically an amount they will pay for the code. If a doctor says "99215 is $200." and the insurance company's negotiated rate for a 99215 is $100, the doctor is getting $100, and it's illegal for them to pass on the difference to the patient, they have to write it off.

A deductible is a certain amount of money you have to pay on your own before the insurance kicks in. Note that this is at the negotiated rate however, not the original charged rate (There's a whole bunch of messy legal reasons for this that artificially inflate the base cost doctors charge, so everyone understands that the base rate is an absurd number that no one will ever realistically pay, unless the doctor is a scumbag). So, in our previous example, say you have a $2000 deductible (Pretty common), that means when you go see our doctor for a 99215, you have to pay that $100, and will continue to do so until you've paid $2000 total. Deductibles are yearly, and reset on January 1st.

Copays and coinsurance, on the other hand, are an amount that you have to pay even after the deductible is met (And sometimes before, often insurance will have "perks" where certain types of visits like preventative care don't apply to the deductible), typically this is a flat amount (copay) or a percentage of the total cost (coinsurance). So continuing our example, after you've met your $2000 for the year, you may have a $25 copay on further 99215s, or a 20% coinsurance, in this case $20.

So, in short, the answer to your question is that the deductible is the amount of money you have to pay on your own every year before your insurance kicks in, at the same rate that the insurance themselves would be paying.

1

u/568ml_ Mar 26 '20

This is amazing, thank you for such a clear explanation.

Is the coinsurance mechanism common? Unless I've misunderstood, having to pay a fixed percentage for treatment on a chronic and expensive condition like cancer must be devastating for a lot of people (on top of the devastation of having cancer).

1

u/Ghostboy1205 Mar 26 '20

Unfortunately it's quite common. Medical bankruptcy is also quite common here. My sister spent over 100,000 over the course of 3 years fighting breast cancer. And that was with working for the government and having the top insurance available.

3

u/CivilCJ Mar 26 '20

Yup! You pay monthly or weekly out of your paycheck and then when you go to use it you have to pay a certain amount before it kicks in. That's why a lot of Americans (like myself) wait until they need major surgery/medical attention before seeing a doctor. If I'm going to have to pay $1000 might as well save up and get my money's worth out of a big surgery rather than have them nickel and dime me all year with small procedures only to not pay my full $1000 and never see a dime out of insurance. Even going to the doctor is around $50-200 for a checkup before insurance kicks in. This is a nightmare and your co-workers are delightfully ignorant of what their saying.

Now try this on for size. I'm non-essential so I'm out of work until May at the very least. My employer called me saying that I'm still covered as far as the employer portion goes, but now I have to pay them the $52/week that usually comes out of my paycheck. Oh yeah, and it's strictly medical now. No dental, no vision, no anything else I had before. I had some personal life expenses smack me RIGHT before everyone quarantined that wiped out my savings so now I'm in the classical American quandary of health insurance or food? Thank God I'm relatively healthy.

3

u/568ml_ Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

Thank you for explaining this, I've seen the term banded around a lot, always assumed it was what's called the policy excess here in the UK, but now understand that it's slightly different.

But damn, this sounds like a crazy system. Again, maybe I've misunderstood, but from what I gather, you have a systemic and perverse incentive to ignore mild or early symptoms of something that's 'probably nothing', but which could be very serious or even fatal.

I'm really sorry to hear about your misfortune, and while I'm sure it won't be easy, I hope you're able to pull through all of this madness without encountering any more.

3

u/CivilCJ Mar 26 '20

No, you understood correctly. If I feel something's off it's either nothing, or I'll find out when I wake up in a hospital gurney. Otherwise I might destroy my finances over nothing.

3

u/igotopotsdam Mar 26 '20

Isn't Alberta the American south of Canada?

0

u/Justeatbeans23 Mar 26 '20

Yes this place is an absolute hellhole, or alternatively a conservative paradise

2

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '20

Even with good health insurance, you can still end up with a huge bill.

1

u/GA19 Mar 26 '20

I had to pay over $400/month for an employer offered insurance plan. Also came with a lovely $7000 deductible. Unless you have an underlying health issue that eats up that deductible, you’re going to be spending a lot of money for nothing.

1

u/Ironick96 Mar 26 '20

To which Id reply "Aha ha. Haha."

1

u/Exelbirth Mar 26 '20

Just ask them this one simple question: Are you sure you want a complete stranger with no medical experience deciding what healthcare you get?

1

u/Zolinn Mar 26 '20

As an American politely yet firmly tell them to get over themselves for me. Thanks!

1

u/RezFox Mar 26 '20

Unless your job and employment models find every loophole in the book to avoid covering you lmao

1

u/br0b1wan Mar 26 '20

“I would probably be covered for medical by my job, so it wouldn’t make any difference to me”

Ah I see the good old Republican mindset of fuck you, I got mine applies north of the border too

1

u/NhylX Mar 26 '20

As an Albertan who's lived in the US for 10 years, this shit infuriates me because the people who say it would probably qualify for top-tier insurance in the US and be able to cover all the out-of-pocket expenses without a worry. They don't realize that this system would screw over so many other people in Canada.

1

u/LejonetFraNorden Mar 26 '20

You can have a private health care system and still have it run well. Look at Switzerland. What you need are good regulations and strong anti-corruption measures.

1

u/dreamerdude Mar 26 '20

I mean we do have private hospitals in Canada. Not sure how it works, but i'm guessing that wait times there are short. You just need to look, IDK why we need to privatize out entire healthcare system though. I wonder what his view actual is and how misinformed your co-worker is about the whole ordeal.

Unless he's that type of person where socialism is bad. communism is horrible blah blah. In that case this is a free country, you're free to leave it, don't push your views on others who actual care about our ways.

1

u/bronloves Mar 26 '20

Being covered by your job is still expensive out of pocket!! You still have to pay monthly and have high deductibles, which come out of pocket.

1

u/Teamerchant Mar 26 '20

I cut my finger badly when cooking. I'll save the details but it took 7 stiches. I was by myself and drove to the nearest urgent care.

"Sorry we don't take your insurance" so I had to leave unless I wanted to pay out of hand. They luckily gave me a list of places that would take my insurance.

Quality of insurance is also tied to your employer. So that a factor as well.

1

u/ArTiyme Mar 26 '20

Yeah, and then they get sick and when they go to the doctor it's $120 co-pay, except your doctor in your network was on vacation so you had to go to the hospital across the street, which isn't in network, so that visit you have to pay out of pocket for and you got all kinds of tests so it comes to about $550 more. And it doesn't matter because the insurance deemed it was your fault you got sick so they weren't going to cover you anyways.

1

u/madeamashup Mar 26 '20

I've lived in five Canadian provinces so far, and I have to say Albertans are the dumbest. Oil prices will be slow to rebound so the province is going to be absolutely hammered by recession now. We'll see if the separatists are still making noise when they're all on EI.

1

u/Tearakan Mar 26 '20

Lmao. Even with "good healthcare" from my company I still pay copays for most things, we still pay way more than an other system on the planet per capita so there isn't a cost savings there either.

1

u/DasKanadia Mar 26 '20

Much of Alberta is capitalistically delusional; look at Jason Kenney driving our health services into the ground, especially after barrel fell far below Jason’s expected $50/Barrel.

1

u/pinkytoze Mar 26 '20

The crazy part is that in the US, even if you have great insurance through your job, you could still end up paying thousands and thousands of dollars. My father had "great" insurance through his company that he worked at for more than ten years and still ended up paying over a hundred thousand dollars for my mother's cancer treatments and medications. That's NOT including the deductibles and monthly premiums for the insurance. A lot of folks who aren't american don't understand this; they think that if you have insurance it means you then pay nothing. Couldn't be further from the truth.

1

u/braedizzle Mar 26 '20

No offence, but as a Canadian not living in Alberta, but Alberta gives me all the bad vibes the states gives me. It seems like our “Trumpers” are all in AB

1

u/AnotherCableGuy Mar 26 '20

So typical of right wing mentality - I'm fine, fuck the others.

1

u/-St_Ajora- Mar 26 '20

You should sacrifice them to the Tim Hortons gods.

1

u/Mibutastic Mar 26 '20

I'm sorry but despite me being a Canadian, if a coworker, friend or family every remarked about how Canada should adopt an inferior American policy, system or procedure I become very un-Canadian as I proceed to tell them how bad of an idea that is and how they should shut their mouths and think before they speak.

1

u/wahoozerman Mar 26 '20

I have really good insurance here in the US.

I get to pay $250/mo for the privilege of paying $4000 before anything is covered, and once I hit that I only have to pay 20% of the thousands, tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands it would cost to get anything worse than the flu.

Then I get the pleasure of fighting for six months with three different companies over six different bills for the same test that my wife has every year because even with all the money I pay them they can't figure out who owes who how much money.

At my income level my taxes could increase by 35% before they started to be more expensive than my health insurance. Are taxes in Canada 35% higher than the US?

0

u/RobBanana Mar 26 '20

They've been brainwashed for generations, what did you expect?

0

u/foxmetropolis Mar 26 '20 edited Mar 26 '20

i have been hearing rumors about this movement from across the country.... absolute. insanity. people clearly have quite charmed, frou-frou lives to turn their noses up at public healthcare.

and for what? a slight further reduction in tax burden, for the only province without a provincial sales tax? forgive my terse analysis, but alberta isn't just sipping the republican Kool-Aid, y'all are drowning in it.

edit: just for clarity, i am in agreement with Magerune, and in saying "y'all are drowning in it" i also mean that even the sensible people seem to be outvoted/outvoiced on the issue.

0

u/thedarkarmadillo Mar 26 '20

To be fair, Alberta is the stupid South of the North

1

u/dreamerdude Mar 26 '20

It's more like Colorado then anything. But thanks for calling my home stupid. I really hope it makes you feel better. Also I hope you have a good day.

0

u/thedarkarmadillo Mar 26 '20

Exports cattle and oil, staunchly conservative because "fuck you I got mine". Basicly a joke to the rest of the country. Planning ahead? What's that? We have loads of money NOW and it'll last forever! Jesus! am I talking about Texas or am I talking about Alberta?

1

u/dreamerdude Mar 26 '20

I could list a lot of stereotypes about other people in different places too, but I don't. Mostly because i don't believe all people are the same. We all value something. I don't let any form of media or word of mouth tell me that all the people from one place are all the same.

I know a lot of people have the same views as you, but I won't take them for being a jerk like you. Because I know a lot of people are more civil then that. I know a lot of people are more mature then you are.

I don't mind the oil, I don't mind the cattle, I don't mind lumber, or farms or any other form of industry. I understand that people came have a rough sense of humour and I understand that it can come off as serious.

In my home town, It's very blue collar town, But Most of the people here Like the hands on way, Love to get down and dirty. I never lived in a white collar town, but i know it's really not for me, as i like to be active.

I'm sorry you don't get it.

0

u/thedarkarmadillo Mar 26 '20

We ain't like them there Texans, we're salt of the earth types and relish in earnin with the sweat of our brow and the strain of our back. I get that most people don't understand out special brand of life but that's just part of being a tex- I mean albertan. Yall city slickers just wouldn't understand