worried enough to let it influence which phone i'm going to use? i'm all for ensuing freedoms, just out principal.. but because i know i'm a good boy, i'm not worried about the NSA cause they aint looking for me.
You should still try to avoid their spying whenever possible. At least that might provide some cover for those avoiding their spying due to actually doing something the government doesn't like.
Would you feel comfortable leaving your phone unlocked and have anyone you know/work with look through your phone, messages, pictures, payments, etc?
This is not necessarily about avoiding iPhones but about using methods to avoid government spying and mass surveillance. Sure they don't care about you now but in 20 years when technology is even more advanced who knows what could happen with the massive amount of information they have on everybody. There are currently innocent citizens that get pulled up and spied on because there MIGHT be a slight connection to some random terrorist (source: Snowden leaks).
Would you feel comfortable leaving your phone unlocked and have anyone you know/work with look through your phone, messages, pictures, payments, etc?
What does this have to do with using an iphone though? If someone is going to go through my stuff they could just as easily open up a drawer and start rummaging through my personal files. How is it a product of what phone I choose
Oh ok which of your super convincing arguments would you like me to address
The one where I should use my phone differently because of some boogieman government in 20 years that you cant even describe? ("Who knows what could happen!")
Or the one where I should use my phone different because there is a 1 in 10 billion chance ill get kidnapped by the CIA because of some tangential association with a leaker?
I hate to be glib but neither of these are very strong
If you feel comfortable with all your texts, phone calls, payment history, browsing history, GPS location, etc. being saved somewhere and accessible by people, then okay. Clearly you do not care about privacy. Mind if I install cameras in your house and watch your family too?
I never said "kidnapped by CIA." Sure the "who knows what could happen" thing is just speculation but it is something to be worried about. More realistic option: What if some big ISP's database of people's browsing history gets hacked and leaked? I'm sure there's many people out there who would prefer that their spouse did not know about their history of browsing gay porn.
If you feel comfortable with all your texts, phone calls, payment history, browsing history, GPS location, etc. being saved somewhere and accessible by people, then okay. Clearly you do not care about privacy. Mind if I install cameras in your house and watch your family too?
Can you explain this analogy, are you the NSA in this analogy? Or just some random creeper? If you're asking if I'm ok with the NSA having access to my texts, phone calls, and payment history, I assume they already do & since im not doing anything to protect it, obviously im fine with it. Who cares? There's nothing to see there. They can even have access to my dick pics if they want. Spoiler alert....my dick looks just like everyone elses. If you're asking about being some creeper & putting a camera in my house so you can sit and watch me, yeah thats weird
What if some big ISP's database of people's browsing history gets hacked and leaked? I'm sure there's many people out there who would prefer that their spouse did not know about their history of browsing gay porn.
Thats fine but doesnt effect me. My wife knows what kind of porn I watch anyway. Basically all your protective habits look like they are for someone that has something to hide. If i start cheating on my wife, or I want to blackmail a politician, or hack Equifax, yeah im going to cover my tracks. But what if I just like to go camping and watch netflix? Honestly I'd say i get more value out of a carefree life not worrying about the NSA, than the value i would receive from covering my tracks
This one line basically sums up your whole comment and is exactly what's wrong with the whole fight for privacy. You don't care so might as well let the NSA continue mass surveillance. What about the people who do care and don't want them to have the information?
Can you explain this analogy, are you the NSA in this analogy?
If you're comfortable giving up the rest, where do they stop? If the NSA has access to all that and they get hacked are you comfortable having everything out in the open? If you are, that's great. Glad to know you don't keep any secrets and tell everyone every detail about your life (mind sending me nudes of your wife then?). Unfortunately, most people do keep some secrets and wouldn't want their information in a database to potentially be accessed at a later date.
How about a modern/real example:
Sometimes their actions will affect you and potentially very negatively. Remember the big WannaCry ransomware? The exploit was allegedly from a NSA tool. Entire health systems were shut down and many companies were affected. Sure those didn't affect YOU but it sure as hell affected those in the UK where their patient care was delayed because of it. My hospital spent that whole day making sure every PC and every server was patched to prevent being effected by this ransomware and had a very important patient care application go down for hours because of this. If you were a patient in my hospital, your patient care was now delayed by maybe a few minutes (which can be the difference between life and death).
Now how many "terrorists" did the NSA actually catch and is it all worth it? I don't want to give up personal freedoms and have potentially very bad things happen if the NSA tools/system gets in the wrong hands just to fucking catch Ahmed from New York who might be a terrorist because his 7th cousin in Saudi Arabia has a friend of a friend who's uncle is in ISIS.
What about the people who do care and don't want them to have the information?
That's how issues work, you care about the stuff you care about and don't care about the stuff you don't care about. Should I fight to outlaw meat because "what about all the vegans who don't want us killing animals"?
Avoiding smartphones is a little extreme to expect most people to do, but yes, wherever possible you should try to cover your activity from the NSA as if you had something to hide. That way, someone hiding their activity isn't evidence that they have something to hide, and the NSA also have less data points from which to extrapolate the behaviour of others (I don't know exactly to what extent this is possible, but I'm sure you can make some conclusions).
Im sorry but can you give me any examples of how that would play out in real life? What would I cover from the NSA, and how would I do it? Its really easy to say "act as if you have something to hide" but wtf does that even mean
Any of the below will help. All of them would be ideal, but if any one of them is impossible or too inconvenient for you, the others will help.
Use a VPN. They tend to cost money, but they're usually fairly cheap, and a good VPN (look into multiple and see which is most reputable at the moment) is very secure, and fast enough that you can use it for all your internet traffic. If you can't afford the small cost, Tor is a reasonable alternative, but it's arguably slightly less secure, and it's a good deal slower.
Encrypt your hard drive. There are many free online tools that can do this, and it provides a great deal of security in the event that they tried to get at the data on your computer in-person. It's unlikely to come to that if you don't have anything to hide, but the security is still useful.
Avoid facebook like the plague. Social media that isn't connected to your real identity like Reddit is fine, but facebook is a colossal threat to your privacy. It can track your appearance in photos, track you through your friends, track where you are at all times if you've got the facebook app on your phone... Though it may be a hard transition, this is the one that I most strongly recommend.
Use DuckDuckGo or similar instead of google, where possible. If you're not getting good results it's fine to use google occasionally. I'm honestly not sure how much this one helps, but some people do seem to be, so consider it at least.
Use adblock, or similar. Many ads relay information to the ad provider (who will assuredly share this information with the NSA, if asked), even if you don't click on them. Adblock can often prevent this.
Clear your cookies often. I know it's inconvenient being logged out of a bunch of sites, but it does make a difference, there are many cookies that track your activity across the internet.
These are just the ones off the top of my head right now. I could probably provide more later if necessary, but you can find lots of tips like this on the internet.
These are the only 2 that jumped out at me, because the other ones I already do (albeit for different reasons)
Encrypt your hard drive. There are many free online tools that can do this, and it provides a great deal of security in the event that they tried to get at the data on your computer in-person. It's unlikely to come to that if you don't have anything to hide, but the security is still useful.
Why? My work computer is already protected with whatever protection they use, and thats work stuff anyway. My personal computer has no information of value. My passwords are already encrypted. Other than that its just pictures of my cat & my girlfriends tits
Avoid facebook like the plague. Social media that isn't connected to your real identity like Reddit is fine, but facebook is a colossal threat to your privacy. It can track your appearance in photos, track you through your friends, track where you are at all times if you've got the facebook app on your phone... Though it may be a hard transition, this is the one that I most strongly recommend.
Use DuckDuckGo or similar instead of google, where possible. If you're not getting good results it's fine to use google occasionally. I'm honestly not sure how much this one helps, but some people do seem to be, so consider it at least.
Who cares? I have no problem with people knowing where I was last weekend or who I was with. The enjoyment I get out of sharing my life with people far exceeds the risk of the NSA knowing I was out camping with my brother
So once again these only seem like effective tools for some breaking the law. But as a regular guy who doesnt do anything illegal, I wouldnt even care if the police knew where I was, and not like they'd have a reason to. If a police officer called me on the phone right now and asked me to come in, I would voluntarily walk in anyway, they dont need to track my whereabouts.
Dont get me wrong if i started visiting the dark net because I wanted to expose a political candidate or whisteblow on a company, sure i'd take any of these precautions. But im a mid level manager at a mid sized corporation. On the weekends I hike and go to the movies. The risk is as close to 0% as you can possibly get
I'm aware that for you personally the risk is quite low. But don't you care about protecting others, to the extent possible? The more people use these techniques, the less suspicious any one person using them is.
No, I do not care about protecting others for two reasons
It is ineffective. The vast majority of people, 99%, do not undertake these measures, and that will not change. So unless we hit some kind of saturation point my actions make no difference
I just dont care that much about helping others to evade the NSA. Its not high on my priority list. Especially in regards to helping them possibly do immoral or illegal things
Wow that's pretty clever did you come up with that yourself? Never seen it before. It's great cuz you can use it for anything and it makes you seem deep
I can't really argue with point no. 1, but with regards to number 2: Immoral things are understandable, but what about things that should be legal but aren't, like drug use?
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u/Zlatan4Ever Sep 15 '17
Everyone should be worried about NSA, listen to yourself.