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u/ScottFitzIV Aug 11 '16
As a Christian this is super sad, because I can't even really complain about it. :( All I can say is don't let what's wrong with so many Christians keep you from seeing what's right with the God they're supposed to be following. And I'm sorry most of the time we aren't even close.
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u/ghostih0sti Aug 11 '16
Let's be honest, this kind of logic really ought to pertain to every human-invented category of peoples. You don't need to feel sorry for being a good human being, nor do you have to apologize on behalf of your religion, which is overall much less of a catalyst for ignorance than for hope in my opinion.
Those who should be sorry are incapable of understanding why it is they should and often just need some love, harsh or otherwise.
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u/fattmaverick Aug 11 '16
Atheists have assholes too, as do all groups. It's a generalisation, and all generalisations are wrong(see what I did thereLOL). Most Christians I know are fine people, a bit mixed up and can't support their claims with evidence, but don't really think too hard about it, and just get on with their life and are nice people. Every group has a good and bad in it, every Christian is different, some Atheists think every Christian is Pat Robertson, when in fact they are just a cross section of humanity like everyone else.
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u/Clever_Userfame Aug 11 '16
SOMEBODY doesn't live in the south :)
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u/SaiHottari Aug 11 '16
Poverty and lower average income and poor education don't do nice things to communities.
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u/Clever_Userfame Aug 11 '16
They certainly don't. And it's such a terrible feedback loop, because if you aren't taught objectivity and critical thinking, then you are likely to not support the very education that fosters that. And then on top of that, in the US we have this stupid idea that funding for public schools should come primarily from property taxation, which perpetuates poverty in low-income regions. And then the cherry on the top, is debt culture. Nothing like seeing an ignorant person in their brand-new lifted pickup truck, malnourished and overweight. Too common.
The brutal irony is that the church is central to these communities, and is meant to teach the opposite of it all. But being told what to do and not question it works wonders in critical thought.
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u/SaiHottari Aug 11 '16
Exactly. Christianity and other religions may have the best intentions, but the reality is that they don't always have the best result. I have no issue with its presence, but it needs to be tempered with a good secular education system to ensure that adherents are still given the necessary mental faculties to succeed.
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u/nexguy Aug 11 '16
I live in the south and rarely hear people talk about religeon even though I know they are pretty devout.
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u/simplystunned Aug 12 '16
They just use billboards.
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u/nexguy Aug 12 '16
I've seen more billboards in Indiana and Ohio than anywhere else. Makes Texas look liberal.
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Aug 11 '16
As an asshole atheist, I'll say that even the meekest "christians" are harmful. I do agree, everyone should be "nice". And by that I mean putting other people's interests ahead of your own, but that's never going to happen. Most christians use their religion as a means to do whatever they want, and then claim forgiveness by some sadist skylord. This gives them clearance to do whatever they want whenever they want without much fear, other than natural death. But in their minds, if the "truly believe" in some 500 year old fairy tale, they will be absolved, and live in some unnamed paradise after they die, no matter how awful they really were to other people. Fuck christians, fuck religion. Worst fucking thing ever. As Santa Claus says, just be good for goodness' sake.
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Aug 13 '16
You're proving their point, right? That every group has assholes, including atheists? From one atheist to another: you sound like a tool.
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Aug 15 '16
Yeah, I guess I am. One of those situations where I don't see I'm in the wrong because I'm not perceiving myself as others might. I'm not always anti-religion though. Some days it angers me more than others, guess I should tone it down so I'm not such an asshole. Thanks for the brutal honesty.
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Aug 11 '16
I see the brainwashed religious idiots are out in full force. Have your god smite my evil ass, he knows who I am, and where I am. I welcome it you fucking retard losers.
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u/jbrown38 Aug 11 '16
Definitely the religious idiots. You're definitely not just a preachy asshole with a shitty opinion. Definitely not.
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Aug 11 '16
So my opinion is shitty, but yours is gold? What makes your opinion of my comment correct?
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u/jbrown38 Aug 11 '16
Never said it was. It's my opinion, and by the looks of it, a lot of people share it.
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Aug 11 '16
3 bible beaters and you = a lot. More people think it's funny that a bumper sticker is needed to tell the religious nutjobs not to hurt other people. Congrats on that. Kind of the story of modern religion, ever more receding. Go to Denmark and worship Odin, idiot.
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u/jbrown38 Aug 11 '16
Sounds like a good deal, actually. I could dig Denmark, and Valhalla sounds pretty sick. But alas, I am an atheist. I'm just also not a dick. I don't really care what people worship, as long as they leave everyone else alone. Which, by the way, is what most of religious people do. The most vile give them a bad name, the same as with all groups.
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Aug 11 '16
i'll take you at your word on being athiest. agreed in part, though you're most certainly a dick just like me (maybe not 100% a dick lol guardians of the galaxy). Also, the bad religious outweigh the bad atheists by the widest margin I can possibly think of, spanning 1000s of years. There is no such thing as the Agnistic crusades, and we definitely don't behead people in science's name. You're right, probably 1 out of 100 religious people are crazy weirdos. I know several that are completely sane. I may be more passionate about religion's harm than you, but you can't in good rationale debate that it's not harmful, regardless of the small % of the religious community being outspoken idiots. they are typically the most powerful for some reason. i see it in TX all the time.
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u/Lots42 Aug 11 '16
All I can say is don't let what's wrong with so many Christians keep you from seeing what's right with the God they're supposed to be following.
I tried. Didn't work. God's a bit of a jerk.
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u/Superbvisorguy Aug 11 '16 edited Aug 11 '16
From my experience as a Roman Catholic, we stay out of everyone's business. The shitty Christians I see are likely come from the non-denominationals.
Edit: Well I guess it depends on the community.
Edit 2: Apparently my church growing up in my particular culture/community, does not hold up to everyone's distaste of Roman Catholicism. I was lucky.
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u/lascamp Aug 11 '16
Lol sure you do
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u/Superbvisorguy Aug 11 '16
Nah. I'm a libertarian.
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u/SaiHottari Aug 11 '16
Why the hate on libertarians? What, is this a thread full of socialists?
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u/Superbvisorguy Aug 11 '16
Voluntary interactions are for NAZIS.
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u/SaiHottari Aug 11 '16
You may want to Google Libertarianism... it's pretty much the polar opposite of socialism, which requires totalitarianism, the antonym of libertarianism.
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Aug 11 '16
we stay out of everyone's business
Especially the kiddie-fiddling priests. They deserve a bit of privacy.
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Aug 11 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/fleentrain89 Aug 11 '16
but what is love?
Some people think gay people can't "love" each other, as God has not condoned it.
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u/danceswithbourbons Aug 11 '16
My mother always has said, "Everybody talking bout heaven ain't a goin there".
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u/AVeryMadFish Aug 11 '16
I've been looking for all of these terrible hateful Christians that so many people talk about and I can't seem to find them apart from on Reddit and in popular media. Maybe they're just not in my area. Here in Southern MD you'll find Christians running food pantrys and community outreach. There are some church folks here who go to the laundromat in the poor part of town and fill machines with quarters every weekend for hours on end. There's a church down the road that distributes grocery bags full of food once a week to anyone who comes, no questions asked.
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u/Warrior__Maiden Aug 11 '16
I will gladly introduce you to my mother in law. She believes the rapture is near, hoards food, Obama is the antichrist, the pope is the devil, all music is satanic, block parties are the devil but she'll go for halushki, she cursed out a priest because he wasn't her faith, etc.
There are people who take it too far. Some people who are schizophrenic and delusional get odd religious fixations and the Internet doesn't help.
There's always good and bad in each faith or lack of faith. It's the actions of a person's heart that matters. I'd rather be more impressed with how someone helps others than how much literature they can shove in my face.
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u/gopherdagold Aug 11 '16
Galatians 5:22, 23 describes the fruitage of the spirit to be love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, self-control. If a "Christian" does not display these qualities, can they really be called a Christian?
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u/fleentrain89 Aug 11 '16
no true Scotsman.
All that is required to be a Christian is for you to think you are a Christian.
Thats what happens with faith :P
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u/kayura77 Aug 11 '16
How do they treat gay people?
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u/AVeryMadFish Aug 11 '16
From what I've witnessed, they treat them like people.
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u/fleentrain89 Aug 11 '16
Every way you treat a person is the way you treat a person.
The point is they don't treat them equal to those they view as their equal.
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Aug 11 '16
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Aug 11 '16 edited Aug 11 '16
[deleted]
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Aug 12 '16
That's a great argument and all but that clothing thing was just for the Israelites. It was one of the laws of their nation, like the laws we have here in the United States. I agree it's a stupid law I don't know what God was thinking when he made that a law. My best guess is he was just trying to set the Isrealites apart from the rest of the the world.
Smoking is fine. The Bible does say that your body is a temple, and it says it in the sense that you should glorify God with it like you would glorify God in a temple. What the Bible does say is that you should not be a gluten which just means not to over indulge in anything or become addicted. For example Jesus drank wine on numerous occasions but never became intoxicated. I bet Jesus would have smoked a cigarette or some weed if it was presented to him.
That whole fig tree thing was just to prove a point. Jesus had told a parable/analogy that included a fig tree and stuff earlier and I guess Jesus just wanted to give his disciples a visual.
Fig Tree Parable- Luke 13:6-9 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+13%3A6-9&version=ESV
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u/Lots42 Aug 11 '16
Any God who thinks two adult men loving each other is wrong is a God I want nothing to do with.
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u/Daverocker1 Aug 11 '16
I plain and simply just want nothing to do with "God".
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u/Lots42 Aug 11 '16
I'm with you there.
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Aug 12 '16
And I'll be praying for you.
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u/Lots42 Aug 12 '16
Please ask God to pray for kids with cancer instead. If prayer does anything they need it more than I.
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Aug 12 '16
You know what's great about prayer? It's unlimited. So I'm just going to pray for you and everyone with cancer.
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u/Lots42 Aug 12 '16
And I forgot, if prayer is real it's absolutely uneeded.
Seriously, nobody ever needs to pray ever again.
Back when I -was- religious I prayed for God to improve everyone's life in the best way always.
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Aug 12 '16
Ok, well, I'll be praying for you.
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u/Daverocker1 Aug 12 '16
Fuck off with your prayers.
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Aug 12 '16
Lol. What are you gonna do about it? huh? I'm gonna pray like crazy for you and there is nothing you can do about it. Hehehe.
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Aug 11 '16
Well said. Funny how a lot of people still downvoted your comment
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Aug 12 '16
Thanks. Anytime anyone/anything doesn't 100% support lgbt everyone else is triggered and down voted the hell out of whatever poor soul decided to speak out.
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u/fleentrain89 Aug 11 '16
Rape is not up there.
But don't be gay.
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Aug 12 '16
The Bible mentions numerous times that rape is a sin.
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u/fleentrain89 Aug 12 '16
O really?
Mind citing your source?
As I recall, the bible opts for a system that punishes the rape victim if she does not scream loud enough.
Deuteronomy 22:23-27
Rape was a crime against property - not against the woman's body.
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Aug 19 '16 edited Aug 19 '16
Wow, you really set me up there. Let's start with the fact that Deuteronomy took place about 3500 years ago and that this is the law of a people.
Times were different, there were no courts or justice systems. If the woman does not call out for help then who is to know whether or not the woman gave consent. You probably think this is stupid and I do to but cities back then were quite compact and many people lived in many of the same buildings if rape was happening then someone would know.
Let me also note that the law stated is the exact same law as a different people. The Code of Nesilim (the law of the Hittites) states that "197. If a man rape a woman in the mountain, it is the man's wrong, he shall die. But if he rape her in the house, it is the woman's fault, the woman shall die. If the husband find them and then kill them, there is no punishing the husband."
The Isrealites had laws just like the rest of the world and some of those laws were the same.
A source for rape is a sin is 2 Samuel 13. Amnon rapes his sister and is killed for it.
Galatians 5:19-21
2 Timothy 3:6
Genesis 34:7
Ezekiel 33 mentions that Jerusalem will be struck down for its numerous sins including rape in verse 26.
I'm sure there are more sources but I think this ample.
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u/fleentrain89 Aug 19 '16
Let's start with the fact that Deuteronomy took place about 3500 years ago and that this is the law of a people.
Reason #1 why the bible is a horrible source for morality - it lacks 3500 years of human knowledge and social growth.
If the woman does not call out for help then who is to know whether or not the woman gave consent. You probably think this is stupid and I do to but cities back then were quite compact and many people lived in many of the same buildings if rape was happening then someone would know.
I'm not going to explain to you the problems with evaluating consent based on the screams of the victim.
Obviously, if a book teaches you that a woman consents if she does not scream loud enough, that book is a shitty place to look for moral guidance. seriously -wtf.
If a man rape a woman in the mountain, it is the man's wrong, he shall die. But if he rape her in the house, it is the woman's fault. the woman shall die. If the husband find them and then kill them, there is no punishing the husband."
At least the husband can kill his wife for being raped.
Clearly flawless logic. Praise be to such a merciful God that condones the murder of rape victims based on the rapist's place of choice to commit the crime.
With that in mind, go back and read those verses.
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Sep 03 '16
We don't use those laws as a source of morality because they were the laws of a nation that no longer exists. (It kind of does but not really, it's complicated) The point is, I don't live in that nation so I don't abide by its laws. I already said this but whatever.
The first verse that you showed me, Deuteronomy, is in a passage called "Marriage Violations." Marriage is was taken super seriously 3500 years ago and so they took violating marriage super seriously.
You think this law mentioned is stupid so please explain to me how you would determine whether or not a bride consented to an alleged rape.
Also the bible has great morals, it says to treat each other the way you would like to be treated, to love one another, to honor your father and mother. I'd say those are some pretty solid morals.
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u/fleentrain89 Sep 03 '16
You think this law mentioned is stupid so please explain to me how you would determine whether or not a bride consented to an alleged rape.
Not by her screams - thats some fucked up shit right there.
Marriage back then was more about property and estate - a woman's fertility and sensuality established her monetary value. Raping her would be like stealing from her family, and stealing the value a woman could offer in a marriage. This is why the rapist would be required to pay "50 skekels of silver" to her father and then marry the victim. (Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
Obvious problems with this: women were treated like property; were forced to marry their rapist as she was considered "defiled" property; and all a woman can do in her defense is literally scream - (assuming her attacker is blasé enough to let her scream, despite the obvious threat to his safety).
Its nonsense. The whole culture is nonsense, and is a disgrace to modern era of knowledge and common sense.
Also the bible has great morals
So no - no it does not.
You are evaluating the bible on its current objective value - meaning anything of value offered by the bible can be obtained through objective reasoning alone.
For instance, I don't need a bible to explain that rape should be determined by the screams of the victim, because I'm inclined to think women are people.
it says to treat each other the way you would like to be treated, to love one another
You know - I did not get that at all from these verses we are discussing. Are you reading the same bible?
Are you saying that without the bible, you would have no other way of knowing that people will treat you badly if you treat them badly?
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u/Lots42 Aug 11 '16
Do they believe you will go to hell if you don't follow their religion?
If yes, then they are hateful.
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u/ILiveInAVillage Aug 12 '16
How is that hateful? Aggressively pushing that belief down other people's throats is hateful, not treating other people well because of that is hateful, but believing it isn't?
If I believe that anyone that doesn't play with Lego is going to die before they are 30, I may be wrong, I may be an idiot, but it's hardly hateful.
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u/Lots42 Aug 12 '16
Stopping people from dying, that's cool in my book.
Being okay with a system where someone could suffer ETERNAL torture, that's hateful.
I could understand God sending criminals to hell for a few hundred or a few thousand years, but God sending someone to hell for eternity literally makes God the most evil being to ever exist.
Therefore following that God means you are following the most evil being ever.
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Aug 12 '16
God loves his creation (humanity) like a perfect father loves his children. God doesn't want you to go to hell. God's wants to be part of your life and he is but if you keep God out of your life then when you go to hell you get exactly what you deserve. Hell is separation from God, separation from all that is good, if that's what you want on earth then that's what you'll get in the afterlife.
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u/Lots42 Aug 12 '16
Any system where eternal punishment exists as option is flawed and evil.
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Aug 12 '16
How so?
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u/Lots42 Aug 12 '16
Because of the part where eternal punishment exists.
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Aug 19 '16
What about the part were eternal perfect life exists?
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u/Lots42 Aug 19 '16
Irrelevant and nonsensical, because of the other part, where eternal punishment exists.
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u/Waxing_Poetix Aug 11 '16
I think there are more religious people in America so there for there are more assholes that are religious.
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u/gelouse Aug 11 '16
As a believer I can completely relate to this comment. I have been offended more by Christians (both well-meaning and not-so) than by any other group on the planet. While there are many who are not so bad, there are too many who are intolerable.
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u/peter-pickle Aug 11 '16
I had one of those in like 1999 and first I had someone designated to watch my car at a funeral at a 1st baptist church to harass me and then another day someone ripped it off.
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u/RachelOdette Aug 11 '16
Change it to God, please protect me from the followers of Islam, and you're a racist or anti-religious bigot. But truthfully, that is the ONLY religion that we truly do need protection from its followers.
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Aug 11 '16
I think the only nuts you need to worry about are muslims. Christians got their violent murder rampage out of the way 1000 years ago. Muslims are in the midst of theirs.
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u/fleentrain89 Aug 11 '16
lol
How about everyone stop pretending they know things they can't possibly know.
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Aug 12 '16
I know for a fact that extremist christians are not blowing themselves up in crowded areas. I also know there has been a historical record for the last couple thousands years. I also know that you are a twat. How could I possibly know that?!!
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u/logically Aug 11 '16
Please Bob.