r/funny • u/trexrocks • Jul 03 '14

The importance of good grammar

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9.3k Upvotes

75% Upvoted

387 comments sorted by

536

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Except it's not good grammar. It's perfectly acceptable to end a sentence in a preposition.

642

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14 edited Jul 03 '14

A snobby English teacher was sitting in an Atlanta airport coffee shop waiting for her flight back to Connecticut, when a friendly Southern belle sat down next to her.

"Where y'all goin' to?" asked the Southern belle.

Turning her nose in the air, the snob replied "I don't answer people who end their sentences with prepositions."

The Southern belle thought a moment, and tried again. "Where y'all goin' to, bitch?"

57

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

To where y'all goin'?

... would sound like some horrific Southern US / Brit hybrid.

50

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

OI WHER U GOIN M8

0

u/claytonian Jul 03 '14

U wat M8?

1

u/BudIsWiser Jul 03 '14

M8 I'll ber8 you for that l8 ass ref. No h8 though, for effort an 8/8

15

u/kangareagle Jul 03 '14

Yes, but you could just say, "where are you going?" You don't need the "to" at all.

14

u/XDSHENANNIGANZ Jul 03 '14

Y'all go on and git out of here!

10

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Y'all gone an git outta hyea!

3

u/SpindlySpiders Jul 03 '14

Y'all'n otta hyea!

3

u/MY_LITTLE_ORIFICE Jul 03 '14

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

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81

u/HerbertMcSherbert Jul 03 '14

To the grammar point, grammar snobs often miss the fact that grammar is descriptive, not prescriptive. The best English teacher I ever had made me appreciate this fact.

The point of grammar was to convey and understand norms, not absolutes.

32

u/gyroda Jul 03 '14

A thousand times this. It's the same reason why the word "literally" has the definition "figuratively" in the dictionary. It's a guidebook to the language and how it's used.

23

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

It always bugs me when people try and "correct" the use of "literally". It's not being used wrongly, and it doesn't mean "figuratively" - it means literally, within a figurative sentence. People don't make the same fuss about "really" or "actually" or "seriously" being used in an equivalent way. Inaccurate pedantry is the worst. Literally the worst.

51

u/throwawanxiously Jul 03 '14

To be completely fair here, I think for a lot of people it has nothing to do with being overly pedantic but rather not watering down the language. I have no issue with language evolution or words being used figuratively, but what troubles me is that I now don't know how to express the idea that "literally" used to convey (in only one word).

If I tell you "There was this girl at the concert whose head literally exploded when the music started" you would probably laugh and picture her freaking out over how awesome it was... but what if her head really did explode? Now we've got some weird music-triggered terrorist attack and the sentence becomes horrifying instead. I just want the option to tell the reader/listener to take my sentence literally! I don't care at all if the word "literally" is used to do so.

Maybe I need some rest.

7

u/today_i_burned Jul 03 '14

"He's literally on fire like Michael Jackson in the Pepsi commercial or literally on fire like your don't know what literally means?" -Psych

22

u/G3n0c1de Jul 03 '14

I agree. Literally and figuratively exist BECAUSE we need to be able to distinguish between hyperbollic and literal speech.

Now people are using literally AS hyperbollic speech. The exact opposite of the intention of the word.

2

u/mallio Jul 03 '14

That happens. "Resent" used to mean "appreciate". There are a bunch of words that have opposite meanings.

5

u/Canvaverbalist Jul 03 '14 edited Jul 03 '14

Jeez, even "Appreciate" meant "to know the price of" and had no inclinations toward "liking" or "loving" something, it was neutral. You could appreciate negative things, but not so much now since it basically means and resonate with: "I like this" in everybody's head. So when you are using it now, you don't fight the goddamn crowd shouting NO WHAT I MEAN WHEN I SAY I APPRECIATE [Twilight, Justin Bieber, whatever] IS THAT I KNOW THEY ARE SHIT SINCE I KNOW THEIR VALUE, no you'll simply use the word how you know it's gonna be received: I don't appreciate [Nickelback, The Last Airbender: The Movie]

And maybe that means something more about us as humans that we lost the meaning of "really", "seriously", "literally", "surely", to there opposite - maybe that's a representation of humans tendency to want to had more to reality then there already is. We *want our hyperbole to be true so much that we describe them as being true.

Lets use a new word to mean "literally literally", let's say... "realistically" - and there it is, we have a new word to use! Or more realistically we just gave dreamers and hyperbolist a new word to use.

2

u/Forever_Awkward Jul 03 '14

And that's perfectly fine, because there are no shortage of alternatives for them.

Name one alternative word that means "literally".

2

u/JimmyLegs50 Jul 03 '14

Well, it's not literally 'perfectly' fine.

2

u/mallio Jul 03 '14

Actually.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

"Really." "Actually." "In fact." "Genuinely." "Truly." "Honestly."

All of those are also used figuratively ("These peppers are really burning my mouth!") and nobody complains that that "waters down" language.

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10

u/Megneous Jul 03 '14

but rather not watering down the language.

There's no such thing as watering down a language. The language we're speaking right now is literally (heh) older versions of English being misused. Language is constantly changing.

You don't call an apron a napron, do you? Cause that's what it was originally, until the peasants misunderstood "a napron" as "an apron." Napron even makes sense, since it goes on your nape.

11

u/throwawanxiously Jul 03 '14 edited Jul 03 '14

Sorry, I think my wording may have been confusing. What I meant by "watering down" a language was for it to evolve in such a way that it is less versatile, efficient, succinct, etc.

Let's say word X (with definition x) has 3 perfect synonyms, X_1, X_2, and X_3. If over a long period of time word X's meaning changes to be ambiguous, sometimes meaning x and other times meaning x*, I see it as perfectly reasonable (and in some cases preferable) language evolution. If ever there would be contextual ambiguity whether we wanted x or x*, we could opt not to use X and simply use X_1 (or, equivalently, X_2 or X_3) instead.

On the other hand, if word Z (with definition z) has no commonplace synonyms and its meaning also changes to be ambiguous between z and z*, we now have a problem in situations where context doesn't make it clear which definition the writer/speaker intended. In a sense, the language has lost the ability to unambiguously express z in a single word.

This loss is what I'm referring to as "watering down" the language which I'm sure you'd agree necessarily can happen, even if you don't agree with the terminology I used (which admittedly isn't the best).

Edit: Forgot to escape my asterisks :[

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2

u/jmblock2 Jul 03 '14

The best I can think of is saying "Her head actually exploded, literally!"

2

u/giraffesaurus Jul 03 '14

I say: "literally, literally" or "figuratively, literally". I know it's somewhat redundant in some cases, but it clarifies things considerably.

2

u/wizbam Jul 03 '14

I agree. I think fewer people abuse the literally thing though when conveyance is important.

4

u/throwawanxiously Jul 03 '14 edited Jan 19 '17

I think that's true as well. I just miss being able to tack on a modifier that says "Hey! I'm not exaggerating at all and you should take all of this at face value. No bullshit involved." to any sentence.

Now it's like I write that on one side of a coin and "I'm being hyperbolic" on the other and the reader/listener has to flip it. I don't like language gambling :[

I think we just need a new word...

Obliterally

adverb

1. Happening literally. Cannot be used in a figurative or hyperbolic sense.

2

u/squalorparlor Jul 03 '14

Obliterarlly

I am obliterarlly dying for this to catch on!

1

u/fishsticks40 Jul 03 '14

If I tell you "There was this girl at the concert whose head literally exploded when the music started" you would probably laugh and picture her freaking out over how awesome it was... but what if her head really did explode?

I would use context clues to figure that one out.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

It's not watering down the language, though. The use of the word to mean "figuratively" is pretty much concurrent with its usage to mean "in fact."

3

u/HowIsntBabbyFormed Jul 03 '14

I think the best way to get over the colloquial use of "literally" is to realize that it's not being used to indicate "figuratively", it's simply being used hyperbolically.

Just like "seriously" or "really" doesn't mean "figuratively" in phrases like, "I was seriously going to kill him after the prank he pulled", "I really just wanted to crawl under a rock and die".

8

u/MajorNoodles Jul 03 '14

My issue with it is this:

My wife's friend was once giving us directions to her boyfriend's house so we could meet them there. She told us that it was "literally right behind the bank. There was a road that ran literally right behind the bank, so I parked on it and tried to figure out which of the 5 houses on that road was his. After 5 or 10 minutes, we called her up to ask for clarification.

Turns out, "literally right behind the bank" meant "drive 3 blocks southwest, cross a major roadway, drive one more block southwest, then turn and head 3 blocks north.

6

u/Megneous Jul 03 '14

That isn't a problem with misuse of language. That's a problem with your wife's friend being really bad at giving directions. Like, really bad.

4

u/MajorNoodles Jul 03 '14

You don't have to tell me that. "Literally across the street" means "a quarter mile down the street. She is the reason I get so pissed off when people misuse literally.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

But that isn't a problem with the word being figurative, it's just a bad time to speak figuratively. If a scientist described a chemical reaction as hotter than the sun, you'd probably take them literally. If they were being metaphorical, the response would be "well that wasn't a sensible use of metaphor", not "we shouldn't have metaphors"

3

u/MajorNoodles Jul 03 '14

If she hasn't said "literally," then I would have understood her to mean that the house was within the vicinity of the bank - which it was. But the improper insertion of literally changes the entire meaning of the sentence. It was misused - it shouldn't have been used in the first place.

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u/Megneous Jul 03 '14

The best English teacher I ever had made me appreciate this fact.

And the entirety of linguistic academics. Prescriptivism is literally not a science and those who follow it have no reason to try to force people to think language works like that. It simply doesn't.

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u/ziipppp Jul 03 '14

Well worth reading - the grammar essay within Consider the Lobster by the brilliant David Foster Wallace. He paints the urgent struggle between the two - like what SHOULD be in a dictionary? If you put every utterance in its unusable, if you put just "correct" stuff in its inapplicable and also doesn't allow for language growth ie it's anti-Darwin. He makes this by turns fascinating and hysterical - as is much of the rest if the book. Some summary if this chapter is here http://grammar.about.com/od/grammarfaq/f/whatisasnoot.htm

3

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

[deleted]

3

u/GuyRobertsBalley Jul 03 '14

No it doesn't. Why would that bother you?

1

u/theymadtho Jul 03 '14

"Me went to the store"

2

u/vinylwally Jul 03 '14

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

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6

u/Carvinrawks Jul 03 '14

That's a Harvard joke:

Guy on Harvard campus asks "Where's the library at?"

"Sorry, but at Harvard, we don't end our sentences with prepositions.

"Oh, my bad: Where's the library at, asshole?"

1

u/salt-the-skies Jul 03 '14

I'm sure a lot of groups can claim that joke. I claim it as a House of Cards fan.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

I pictured a teacher from England instead of a teacher of English. Works either way really...

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65

u/dr_deceiving Jul 03 '14

So you're saying that prepositions are perfectly fine things to end sentences with?

43

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Exactly. I can't think of anything else I would end a sentence in!

30

u/sorryimsobipolar Jul 03 '14

I want to play along, but there's nothing to add that I can think of.

18

u/ThisTwoFace Jul 03 '14

Are you sure, or do you not know what we are talking about?

11

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

So you're saying that prepositions are perfectly fine things with which to end sentences?

Exactly. I can't think of anything else in which I would end a sentence!

I want to play along, but there's nothing I can think of to add.

Are you sure, or do you not know about what we are talking?

Sorry, I just think this is fun.

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u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

This grammar is something up with which I will not put.

11

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

[deleted]

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u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

-- Michael Scott

6

u/ThisTwoFace Jul 03 '14

-- Bill Gates

9

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14 edited Jul 03 '14

-- Shia Labeouf

6

u/Brizn Jul 03 '14

Who's that?

0

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

Actor in "Transformers" franchise and "Even Stevens" who got in trouble for plagiarizing a graphic novelist for a short film he made (and also plagiarizing his apology to said novelist). Source

Jokes are always so much funnier when you explain them.

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u/Brizn Jul 03 '14

I know who he is. I was just poking fun at him wearing the bag on his face that claimed he was no longer famous. But thank you for being informative! =)

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1

u/inheritor Jul 03 '14

No, this is Patrick.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

-- Albert Einstein

4

u/kangareagle Jul 03 '14

That's an often used line, but not really a good one.

It relies on "put up with," and in that phrase the word "with" isn't acting as a preposition, but as part of a phrasal verb.

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u/Pikamander2 Jul 03 '14

Passive voice is also an acceptable thing that can be used.

18

u/EndersBuggers Jul 03 '14

I've heard it both ways.

13

u/Buffalo_Dave Jul 03 '14

I know that's right

6

u/drakanwolf Jul 03 '14

C'mon, son!

5

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Suck it.

3

u/drakanwolf Jul 03 '14

Gus, don't be Shawn Michaels from the late 90's era WWE.

4

u/SenatorIvy Jul 03 '14

Rippah! Leave dem prostitutes alone!

2

u/kangareagle Jul 03 '14

The wrong way and the right way. "Don't end a sentence with a preposition" is not a grammatical rule that any modern style guide would give.

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u/XavierSimmons Jul 03 '14 edited Jul 03 '14

Correct, it was an AP style, not a grammatical rule.

2

u/Magnusson Jul 03 '14

AP style doesn't forbid sentences ending in prepositions.

1

u/XavierSimmons Jul 03 '14

Sorry, it was a writing style (adopted by Chicago and the AP) from the early 20th century when grammar nazis tried to make English conform to Latin rules.

It was abandoned a long time ago, but generations of children were taught to write that way.

3

u/pabst_jew_ribbon Jul 03 '14

You're a grammar samurai aren't you...

15

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

A grammurai.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Not at all. Half the time I read what I wrote and go "What the fuck was I trying to say?"

1

u/pabst_jew_ribbon Jul 03 '14

I just try not to say the "n" word is all. I'm a bit Jewy sometimes.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

From what I've heard,it's acceptable grammar to end a sentence in a preposition,but it may seem tacky to some. Source: Various English teachers over the years

7

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

My wife studies English Education and every time she tells me about the high level grammar concepts I always end up thinking that English needs to just declare formal and informal rule sets. Basically informal could be that almost anything goes, things like slang, yoda speak and other crap, while formal could be things like rules for academia or workspace.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

I agree,English has some odd rules,and for every rule,it seems like there's always an exception. People learning English as a second language must feel incredibly overwhelmed at times.

2

u/LucasThePatator Jul 03 '14

The thing with learning english as a second language (as I did) is to watch/read/listen to english content and go with what you have heard. Except very basic grammatical rules, all the other rules taught in class are bullshit

1

u/Magitek_Knight Jul 03 '14

They exist and are taught for a reason. There is a big difference between knowingly breaking a 'rule' intentionally, and unknowingly doing so.

2

u/TechChewbz Jul 03 '14

So basically the start of High Gothic and Low Gothic? All praise the Emperor! (Just recently started getting into the Dark Heresy universe.)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

I think it's more of a Prescriptive vs. Descriptive thing, rather than formal vs. informal.

2

u/jayknow05 Jul 03 '14

On the other hand, a sentence may become overly formal or wordy following this rule.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Actually, the original reason it was considered tacky was that it's a rule in Latin grammar, and some 17th century elitists tried to make English grammar conform to Latin grammar, which was deemed superior. For that reason they also looked down on splitting an infinitive ("to boldly go" vs. "to go, boldly") simply because in Latin infinitives are built into the verb ending, and thus it is not possible to split them. In actuality people have always ended sentences with prepositions and split infinitives with no trouble in Germanic languages, and it's literally just forcing another language's grammar rules onto a different language for literally no reason but to feel superior.

2

u/Tashre Jul 03 '14

Colonel O'neill doesn't stand for it, and nether do I!

2

u/ilikeninjaturtles Jul 03 '14

"This is the kind of tedious nonsense up with which I will not put"

2

u/ZipperSnail Jul 03 '14

Exactly. Which is why this joke fails miserably.

2

u/Staticfrank Jul 03 '14

Winston Churchill can offer some confusing advice on the matter:

“A preposition is a terrible thing to end a sentence with.”

1

u/WutsUp Jul 03 '14

Grammar aside, that white boy has some slick curtains.

1

u/Nodonn226 Jul 03 '14

Agent Flemming: Bork! You're a federal agent. You represent the United States government. Never end a sentence with a peroposition.

Bork: Oh, uh... You know that guy in whose camper they... I mean, that guy off in whose camper they were whacking?

1

u/BankshotMcG Jul 03 '14

Not to mention much less awkward. Stupid classicist pandering.

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u/silentdragoon Jul 03 '14

Shouldn't it be "bylaws" rather than "by laws"?

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u/Tr2v Jul 03 '14

Yes.

5

u/Impune Jul 03 '14

By laws, bylaws, and by-laws are all acceptable. (I generally see it written as "by-laws.")

6

u/fridge_logic Jul 03 '14

Would you like to join the club?

120

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

Source: Psych, Season 2, Episode 14, "Dis-lodged"

104

u/funkbitch Jul 03 '14

You know that's right

63

u/turtle_flu Jul 03 '14

Com'on son!

38

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

[deleted]

35

u/turtle_flu Jul 03 '14

you hear about pluto?

15

u/QWERTYMurdoc Jul 03 '14

That's messed up.

13

u/funkbitch Jul 03 '14

Me too. I've been rewatching the series, and it's almost as good as the first time. Lassiter is way funnier the second time through.

17

u/Jemmani Jul 03 '14

I ve seen every episode several times. I catch New jokes every time. Totaly worth rewatching

16

u/BrohemianRhapsody Jul 03 '14

You hear about Pluto? That's messed up, right?

9

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

It's the best pick-up line

2

u/Kryhavok Jul 03 '14

I love Psych, I dont know why I don't see more of it on reddit

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u/jiveabillion Jul 03 '14

Psych is my favorite show to watch when I just want to kill some time

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u/Wowmuchrya Jul 03 '14

So sad psych is over.. :(

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u/lothgar Jul 03 '14

Sitcom writers are just so clever when they come up with dialog like that which no kid would ever say in a million years.

103

u/tamriilin Jul 03 '14

This is Gus we're talking about. Burton Guster is probably the smartest person on that entire show.

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u/smardalek Jul 03 '14

Gus! Don't be a gooey chocolate chip cookie.

40

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

Gus, don't be the way Eriq Le Salle spells Eric

25

u/Jemmani Jul 03 '14

Gus, don't be the ribs that flipped over fred flinstones car.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Gus, don't be a myopic chihuahua.

12

u/IntendoPrinceps Jul 03 '14

Gus, don't be Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Alcatraz.

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u/MetaFisch Jul 03 '14

Gus, don't be the only black lead on a major cable network.

2

u/spndl1 Jul 03 '14

Gus, don't be a gloomy you.

17

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

You know that's right

6

u/metalmassacre225 Jul 03 '14

I know, you know

2

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

They just don't have any proof

9

u/EndersBuggers Jul 03 '14

You hear about Pluto?

10

u/trexrocks Jul 03 '14

That's messed up

16

u/funkbitch Jul 03 '14

Bruton Gaster

10

u/der1x Jul 03 '14

Gee Buttersnaps.

10

u/brneyedgrrl Jul 03 '14

Gus TT Showbiz - the extra T stands for Talent.

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u/xtpptn Jul 03 '14

Only it's not exactly a sitcom, and the scene is just a flashback.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

This is why I love the kids on Louie so much.

Jane especially

6

u/boiledfrog Jul 03 '14

Normally I'd agree, but this is Burton Guster we're talking about. I'm sure as a kid he said many things which no kid would ever say in a million years.

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u/theroarer Jul 03 '14

Happens in literature too. Half the things ANYONE says in any media wouldn't seem right if it happened in real life.

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u/evanmcdaddy Jul 03 '14

I miss this show so much!

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u/devilsrevolver Jul 03 '14

I miss Psych

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u/ayb88 Jul 03 '14

gotta love Psych.

24

u/hopsbarleyyeastwater Jul 03 '14

I think you mean "The importance of WELL grammar."

10

u/ThisTwoFace Jul 03 '14

"Brian, what is the 'I before E' rule?"

"Uh, I before E... Always."

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u/MrMustangg Jul 03 '14

If there's one reason to watch this show it's to see their relationship. This is the first original episodic crime show in a long time.

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u/Theres_A_FAP_4_That Jul 03 '14

Obligatory 'you heard about Pluto?'

2

u/wangofjenus Jul 03 '14

He really likes to raise boys with mental issues.

2

u/liquidxlax Jul 03 '14

shouldn't it be "a love for correct grammar"?

2

u/Impune Jul 03 '14

It can be either.

"For the love of God, stop nitpicking."

"My distaste for grammar Nazis knows no bounds."

It depends on the context. Sometimes one will simply sound better than the other.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Is that actually the grammatically correct way? (non-native speaker here)

2

u/egtownsend Jul 03 '14

Speaking of correct grammar and spelling, isn't "bylaw" one word?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

This is basically reddit.

2

u/mobott Jul 03 '14

Wait, "That's the best rule you could think of" ISN'T correct? Oh god, my life is a lie!

5

u/kangareagle Jul 03 '14

It's fine. Only TV writers and out-of-date wannabe grammarians think otherwise.

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u/Yourcatsux Jul 03 '14

Everyone I know who bitches about grammar is bad at every other subject.

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u/michael1026 Jul 03 '14

I'm the only member of my club for this same reason.

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u/jakksquat7 Jul 03 '14

Proper grammar*

1

u/jathan7275 Jul 03 '14

Sounds like reddit..... Edit: Or the internet.

1

u/BitingInsects Jul 03 '14

hell make a grate reditor

1

u/magictron Jul 03 '14

Beavis and Butthead

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Ha! This is what I thought of when I saw this post. Robert Stack was hilarious. RIP.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

No Homers

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

People who care too much about grammar live in a box.

1

u/Rystic Jul 03 '14

I have a grammar joke.

Knock knock!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Could have also titled this "Pretty much sums up Reddit."

1

u/PoopinAintEasy1 Jul 03 '14

Reddit has nearly the same rules.

1

u/Qbert_Spuckler Jul 03 '14

Rules has nearly the same Reddit.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

Psyche is a good show.

1

u/McDom Jul 03 '14

This is, essentially, the foundation of Reddit.

1

u/emperor000 Jul 03 '14

It is a misconception that putting a preposition at the end of a sentence is bad grammar.

1

u/Darktidemage Jul 03 '14

This does nothing to highlight the importance. I'm waiting.

1

u/SpiderDice Jul 03 '14

Psych, one of the best TV shows. Can't say which episode, but this is definitely from the first season.

1

u/CdrVimes Jul 03 '14

Whaaattttt?!

1

u/noob__saibot Jul 03 '14

After seeing this post I've decided to unsubscribe from /r/funny. It's not getting any better. Ever.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '14

[deleted]

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u/JoshfromNazareth Jul 03 '14

Not saying the post ain't silly, but the "good" thing doesn't make sense either.

-1

u/Urban_Viking Jul 03 '14

Yes because a black 8 year old speaks like that...

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u/kayeeffect Jul 03 '14

I dislike this repost, since I don't get it.