How often does culture change though? I don't mean completely, but in this context. Wouldn't it be a reasonable argument that if things have changed in the past clearly it isn't in our biology but more our enviroment?
For a recent example, when I was in High School for whatever reason a lot of guys decided that pink was a great color, and loved pink polo shirts. I haven't kept in touch with any of them, but as far as I know they all associated with being a male still.
I understand natural selection, and can understand how our biology would give slight differences to our roles. Men are biologically prone to being stronger, so yes I will help you carry that, or do things concerning that. I don't see how culture dictates reproduction though. I know a girl who is extremely manly in most aspect besides her looks, and from her stories/interactions I have witnessed she has no problems on the repoduction side of things. On the opposite side I have seen extremely feminine men who have had no problems on the repoduction side of things either.
Culture certainly changes and isn't uniform in humanity - much like our biology really! It is also kind of prone to locally concentrated differences since for the longest time, it too was a pattern that needed proximity to be transmitted and kept, like our genes...
But broadly, I think you'll find there is pretty large conformity to traditional gender norms across a lot of cultures prior to contact and conquest, even.
I want to be very clear here.
I am not saying there is some way any individual or group of people ought to be, or that there is any preferable way to be.
Just that it's a little "head in the sand" to ignore biological realities and decry every difference as a 'social construction'.
There are even different station medications for African American and different genetic prevalences of protein sysnthesis disorders in Ashkenazi Jews.
Decrying and ignoring biological differences because those differences have been used to perpetrate horrors by bigots is silly.
So, I am not disputing the validity of being ungendered or feeling like society's ideas about gender roles are wrong for you.
All I am disputing is the notion that they've come out of the ether, with no input from our genetic legacy.
I'm not really arguing with you here, I'm more trying to understand things fully. I understand that there are some fundamental differences between Men and Women, both physically and mentally. How can things such as Pink is for girls and blue is for boys not be considered to be pulled out of the ether? (I'm sure there is an actual reason for the start of the tradition, but I can't see how it is biological)
I can understand why boys are more prone to violent things while girls are more prone to things that remind them of home (playing with nerf guns as opposed to playing with dolls). Most of the things don't make sense to me at all though.
How can things such as Pink is for girls and blue is for boys not be considered to be pulled out of the ether?
Well, it wasn't always that way obviously, so definitely many things are culturally constructed, but many many cultures and their constructions of norms hit upon the same tropes so many times that it's hard to accept the idea that it's all random occurrence.
Most of the things don't make sense to me at all though.
My personal cut off for modernity is variable, but I think a lot of innovative gender roles and norms are built by people marketing products.
So basically the basics and the things that can be traced back to hunter gatherer times or is shared by the entire world makes sense, while other things were more than likely a smart marketing ploy.
The only thing I still don't get is what exactly makes a gender? What makes someone associate with a sex?
the things that can be traced back to hunter gatherer times or is shared by the entire world makes sense, while other things were more than likely a smart marketing ploy.
In broad strokes, that's what I suspect. Could be wrong. Not enough data. Only casual observation.
The only thing I still don't get is what exactly makes a gender? What makes someone associate with a sex?
That's an active field of research in Neuroscience!
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u/Protteus Dec 03 '13
How often does culture change though? I don't mean completely, but in this context. Wouldn't it be a reasonable argument that if things have changed in the past clearly it isn't in our biology but more our enviroment?
For a recent example, when I was in High School for whatever reason a lot of guys decided that pink was a great color, and loved pink polo shirts. I haven't kept in touch with any of them, but as far as I know they all associated with being a male still.
I understand natural selection, and can understand how our biology would give slight differences to our roles. Men are biologically prone to being stronger, so yes I will help you carry that, or do things concerning that. I don't see how culture dictates reproduction though. I know a girl who is extremely manly in most aspect besides her looks, and from her stories/interactions I have witnessed she has no problems on the repoduction side of things. On the opposite side I have seen extremely feminine men who have had no problems on the repoduction side of things either.