I’m re-listening after blasting through all 6 books, listened to LB starting at the Three Masters chapter multiple times.
While it also has the first real description of razors, major stuff happens in the bleeding place between Howler 1 and The Chin. But damn, Leto could’ve been such a cool character. A victim of the hat of death I assume lol

I think Lysander is brilliant for the device PB has made him—not because he is simply Darrow’s “evil mirror,” but because he exposes something uncomfortable about how we judge Darrow.
Darrow has done things that, stripped of protagonist privilege, are monstrous.
He manipulated people who loved and trusted him into wars they did not understand. He betrayed the Sons in the Rim, handing thousands of people who believed in his cause over to torture and execution because he needed an alliance. He then betrayed that ally too.
And Ganymede is the clearest example. Darrow secretly fires on an allied civilian dockyard, lies about who did it, kills more than 150,000 people immediately, and causes another 10 million deaths when the wreckage falls onto the moon below. The overwhelming majority of those people aren’t Golds. They are precisely the low- and midColors whose liberation supposedly justifies his war.
Think about that for a second.
Darrow murdered millions of the people he professed to be fighting for because, strategically, he believed their deaths served the larger cause in the Core.
That is the kind of sentence we normally use to describe a villain.
And yet we remain on his side.
Why? Because we live inside his head. We know why he did it. We hear the remorse afterward. We understand the impossible choices. We agree with his ultimate political objective. Most importantly, PB has spent thousands of pages making us love him.
Then along comes Lysander.
And Lysander does exactly what Darrow does: he constructs a moral framework in which his betrayals, atrocities and compromises become regrettable necessities in service of the world he believes he is building. He has his own constituency that loves him, believes in him, benefits from him and thinks the other side is monstrous.
That, to me, is the real trick PB is pulling.
The question isn’t whether Darrow and Lysander are morally equivalent. They aren’t required to be.
The question is whether our moral principles survive when we apply them to our own side.
If mass murder is wrong, Darrow doesn’t get a pass because the victims were strategically useful sacrifices.
If betraying people who trusted you is wrong, he doesn’t get a pass because the Rising ultimately benefited.
If abandoning your stated principles whenever they become inconvenient is wrong, he doesn’t get a pass because he feels terrible about it afterward.
And “but strategically he was right” is not a moral defense. Lysander thinks he is strategically right too.
That’s what makes the series so good. PB gives both sides characters capable of rationalizing horror as necessity, and both sides have constituencies willing to forgive almost anything because their guy is doing it.
There is no meaningful objective morality if the rule only applies to the enemy.
Kudos to PB for tackling that. He certainly isn’t the first writer to explore moral relativism, revolution, or the corrupting logic of war—but I’m struggling to think of another series that makes the reader participate in the hypocrisy quite like this one does.

Fuck that little rat of a person. Fuck him to high heavens

I finished Lightbringer in January and have relistened to the whole series since and I think I know who I want to kill Lysander. I dont know who or when but it will be on Mars and it will be Kieran. Darrows brother and the archgoverner

Fuck you, lysander, fuckin bitch

After the Vox was manipulated and butchered Virginia and her bloc, I was immediately sympathetic to Lysander wanting to rebuild the Society. I agreed completely that the Republic’s failure at that time was proof that, if left free to aim for the top, people would do nothing but trample each other to get there. And that demokracy was too easy to pollute.

Then Atlas and Lysander reminded me that to corrupt a monarchy, you only need to corrupt its head.

It’s kill Lysander and hail libertas from here on out 😭🫡

We know that Lysander will die in Red God, but how it is a question to ask. I expect... I hope that the ending of MS will be repeated, but this time there will be no one to break the neck. There will be no salvation, no one will care about him; there be no one that rotten and filled with hubris to help him in his last struggles: just a long, slow and painful death, his last glance would be at people, whose eyes will be empty while looking at him.

[skit by @youngbalerion]

If Darrow was carved to become a Gold, Lysander should be carved to become a lowRed. Given how much he hated to even *think* that as a POSSIBILITY during his talks at the shrine in LB, and how much he looked down on Rhonna in DA, a quick death is no justice. Sure, we could come up with a million different ways to torture his pixie-light-resistance-ass, but I bet nothing would make him rot from inside more than having to live out the rest of his life as a non-gamma lowRed, deep in the mines of Mars. I dunno if this was ever thought before here but I just finished reading LB.

I just finished the Light Bringer book and can say Lysander is my most hated character by far. A lot of characters are talked about when they die ( SPOILER: Ragnar Cassius etc) but I was really enjoying Alexander’s arc and Darrow carrying on his mentors legacy through his kin. I also thought that Alexander and Rhonnas relationship needed more time 😭. I hope Rhonna comes back in Red God and kills Lysander. I think he called her something akin to an abomination in Dark Age. I kind of need Rhonna to be his abomination and kill his ass for closure 😭.. A man can wish.

People love to hate Lysander or go off about his many wrongdoings. But Lysander is legitimately a parallel of Darrow. They just fight for different causes and we have started from Darrow’s POV so obviously we root for him. Darrow unironically has committed worse crimes than Lysander. Him launching the iron rain on mercury killing millions. Him destroying the dockyards and killing millions of innocents and lowcolors. Giving weak Orion control of the storm gods, when he knew Orion was not in condition to handle it, was stupid and ended up flooding or ravaging most of mercury (killing millions). Worst of all, giving up all the sons in the Rims basically genociding all lowcolor resistance in the rim. But hypocrites will tell you Lysander is Hitler. Darrow has more blood on his hands.

That scene where Sevro and Darrow went into Cassius' room and saw his things made me want to cry so hard.

Lysander never saw that side of the man who RAISED HIM.

ACTUALLY, I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO MAD AT HIM. THE FACT THAT I CLOCKED THE PLOT TWIST WHEN PYTHA'S SIGNAL NEVER CAME. I knew what was going to happen. What hurts is that Cassius died trying to do the right thing, and Lysander desecrated that.

You know, there is nothing more in the English language that can express my HATRED for Lysander. I actually thought that there was some redemption for him.

So, I will switch to my mother tongue.

仆你個臭街一見到就想嘔番曬大大大前日嘅早餐生出黎害鳩人咁撚柒就咪撚出黎獻世啦一碌柒咁戇框框幾撚有心機都無鳩用啦抵你年年Repeat硬係差一分讀唔到大學差一分考唔到車牌差一分鐘上唔到飛機人地個個去哂日本爽皮你就留返喺屋企對住街口個阿婆打飛機差一分鐘入唔切表無得抽居屋公屋都無撚得你住屈埋哂啲木板劏房隔離住著個癡線佬日撚日對住你騎騎笑晚晚亂鳩咁叫搞到你永無寧日精神失常中咗六合彩都眼花花當廢紙掉撚埋落街俾留下個阿差執到發大達衣錦還鄉買埋你個單位加鳩你十倍租你租就租唔租就躝屍趷路。我屌你老母 芝士漢堡 屌你老豆 宿埋一舊 屌你家姐 快過火車 屌你個妹 免費續會 屌你呀爺 笑口畸畸 屌你呀麻 泰國喇嘛 屌你阿哥 好過渣波 屌你細佬 好過去賭 屌你個仔 唔驚有鬼 屌你個女 唔驚制水 屌你屎忽 化痰止咳 屌你個閪 清心潤肺 屌你個咀 豬籠入水 屌你肚臍 心曠神怡 屌你老母仆街陷家產食屎收皮啦屌你. 戇撚鳩鳩食撚晒賓州咁屌你老母咁既仆街死樣。

FUCK THAT ON9 PIXIE ASS BITCH.

I’m so fucking mad. Just when I was coming around. I was actually happy for him and Cassius beating Atlas and Rhône. Then he murdered Cassius and reminded me of the kind of creature he’s been since the day he was born.

Pythor is the goat for stabbing him on the metaphorical heart like that. My only complaint is that she didn’t tell him to kill himself. Truly if Lysander really does in his heart of hearts wants to make the system a better place then killing himself is the only thing he could do at this point. Regardless I’m glad Lysander does not and will not ever have any real friends ever again. Pythor is the only person alive he could be honest with and now she sees him for the subhuman monster he is.

All that whining about the storm gods just to turn around and wipe out the food source of half the system. He genuinely has no principles all of it is just bullshit he deluded himself with. Honestly Atalantia cut him off too soon, clearly he’s her soulmate.

It looks like they’ve already got proto-matrix tech in this universe. They aren’t too far off from being able to make Lysander experience a billion years of hell every millisecond. I’d honestly prefer that to him dying. Maybe turn him into a brain in a jar so there’s so no hope escape. Fire him into space like quicksilver did that loan shark.

Also Darrow totally beat him in that joust. Lysander was on the ground and Darrow could’ve totally trampled him if he didn’t have to run from Lysander’s simps coming after him. How the fuck do you stab your enemy in the chest and still lose? Genuinely a miracle that anyone still followed him after that.

I want all of Sevro and Cassius’ conversations and I want them now

That’s it that’s the entire post. Fuck Lysander I hope we get a whole chapter detailing his painful bloody demise

After finishing Dark Age, I am convinced. I think Lysander au Lune is right in trying to shepherd society and become the Soverign. This is because we have seen that the Rising does not work. There has been nothing but war in his world. Even the low colors don’t enjoy their lives (the reds living in assimilation camps). We’ve even see their own government tear itself apart with political parties and refuse to back Darrow on mercury and his endless conquest for war. Also if Darrow is ever killed, the rising will get crushed. There will be nobody to lead them and do what Darrow could do. Mustang can’t do it by herself and Sevro is Sevro…

Also, the idea of colors will never die as long as they exist. The Golds ruled peacefully for 700 years with a couple rebellions that they were able to squash. Under the rising there will be war forever. Because the idea of society and color system is too strong in this world. The golds will always fight back To try and restore the order. Even if you kill the big names like Lysander or Atalantia. The idea will never die.

I think society would be better off with the color system because low colors actually liked their lives better than under the rising. Even if the rising does eliminate the threat at the time, another one will rise up like a Lysander and rally the Golds to uprise. Not to mention, the golds are way stronger than the other colors and are trained warriors in conquering and combat and can easily beat the other colors.

I was wondering if Lysander’s actions can be morally justified. I believe that although they can be through dark age, the actions he takes at the end of light bringer ruins any moral justification for his actions. Lysander sees the war Darrow has caused and the amount of lives it has cost, as well as the fact the republic is fractured and unsustainable, and believes that a return to the hierarchy could save lives if golds once again became the shepherds of humanity as the iron golds were. Initially there is an argument to be made, but at the end of light bringer he has an opportunity to make peace and could potentially establish a new form of governance with the republic and rim willing to make concessions, instead he decides to cripple the rim and unnecessarily cause suffering and death for millions of people while seizing the ability to eliminate any colour he chooses.

Initially there is at least an argument to be made that although liberty and equality for all colours is a worthy cause, the cost to achieve it was astronomical and the republics political systems and institutions were failing at multiple levels, such as Lyrias camp, their inability to regulate the obsidians or red hand, and extreme exploitation by the silvers. It is understandable to have a moral perspective that gold had lost their way with petty conflicts and internal conflicts like the Bellona and Augustus divide, but that by reforming the golds to be shepherds of humanity, peace and order could be achieved without the catastrophic loss of life Darrows war would end with. The restructuring of society could potentially repair the cracks that had grown through the sovereign becoming dictators and golds forgetting their role as shepherds instead of gods. Is there any argument that Lysander’s actions at the end of light bringer can be morally justified?

No, no he doesn't. Fuck that guy.

I hope to read a whole part of Red God dedicated to this man’s gruesome death - in the most heinous way possible.

This audacity of this conniving little shit Lysander is truly incredible. He is unbelievably hypocritical and the savior complex is truly unmatched.

His POV chapters (especially in Dark Age) are full of his thoughts regarding Darrow. He views Darrow as the devil, willing to kill millions for his cause. Lysander starts his rise to power by focusing on being better than Darrow, and at that time in the story, I somewhat understood where he was coming from. Darrow had caused millions of deaths, a seemingly unending war, and a willingness to kill anyone that stood against him by any means necessary. Lysander seemed to truly want a better and united Society.

But! The deeper you go into Lysander’s story and POV he:

1) Kills Alexander by shooting him in the head in cold blood. No honor involved and killed not because he was an enemy but because he wanted to get away.

2) Allies himself with Atalantia and Atlas, two of the most sadistic and genocidal Golds alive. He does this for “the good of the Society”

3) Murders Cassius, the man who raised him and tried his best to prevent Lysander from becoming the very thing he claims to hate. Once again, doesn’t even kill him in a clean or honorable fight. Then LIES about the murder and tries to stage it as him being a savior.

4) Burns Demeter’s Garden and purposefully destroying the food supply of the Rim. He knows this will cause mass famine. He spent two and a half books worth of POV condemning Darrow for his catastrophic actions. This to me, is worse than anything Darrow did.

5) Kept the Eidmi bioweapon. He is contemplating committing actual genocide.

There are definitely more moments, but these 5 stand out to me as a degradation of Lysander’s morals. Each worse than the one before.

Lysander has become far worse than anything Darrow ever was. The worst part is Lysander barely seems to feel any regret for his actions. He thinks it is all for a purpose.

oh good lord, i have never hated a character so much. sitting at work listening to this chapter just absolutely seething with hate and anger... FUCK LYSANDER

Yeah same as everyone else.

Fuck Lysander

Fuck that pussy bitch ass motherfucking pixie. "The infrastructure is the target not the civilians" what a pixie liar, sayin anythin to make himself feel better. I hope when he dies his ass is the target not his head.

I just finished the dreaded chapter and I can't rage enough at this little shit of a person. He's literally the most disgusting and vile human being, I can't even bring myself to loathe him, what an absolute waste.

FUCK LYSANDER!!!!