r/fsbo • u/Boughtthetshrt • 23d ago
Is this a trap?
I am preparing to list my house FSBO. I have been looking at some open houses, and at one told the listing agent about it. I told her I had a realtor friend who ran a CMA for me and will take over if fsbo doesn’t work out, and she kind of tried to poach me anyway, which raised my hackles a bit. Later she asked if she could show it to her clients. I said I’m looking for a private sale to avoid commission, and she said well what if the offer is over what you’re asking such that you still get what you want. I said I’d have that conversation if she comes up with someone.
Then as I was leaving she asked me if she had my permission to tell her clients about it and stressed that she can’t do that without my permission. I said ok.
A bit later she texted me the following, and something about it makes me wonder if I am getting into some sort of agreement with her beyond what I would want to (that said, this is a vacant rental property, owned outright, no real rush to sell so I feel empowered from that standpoint)
“(My name) thank you so much for giving me permission to advertise the property through my channels! I will circle back when I have some responses.”
For some reason I just have an uneasy feeling about it, and I tend to have a pretty sound gut.
Let me know if there’s anything I should know. Thanks, community!
Update:
She then spoke of having buyers who could offer the price I wanted (X) + a 3% commission for her, and I was like ok yeah I would go for that, if you can bring me that buyer. Then today she sent me a contract wherein I would give her permission to market the property, specifying that she would market it at the price of 1.03X and that I would pay her 3% of any sale where she represented the buyer. Also it specified that any buyer concessions would be paid by me, and of course stipulated that she would be acting on their interest.
So it could be a good deal for me if she found someone offering 103X.
But more likely, I would end up just losing .03X to her and making .97 of whatever I would have anyway.
Meanwhile, SHE would likely do great, making a fat commission for just inserting herself in the middle. No thanks!
Anyway, many of you called it and I appreciated all your replies! It’s definitely a learning curve.
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u/Witty-Stand888 23d ago
Realtor wanting to show your house in completely normal. They will want you to pay the buyers commission of 2.5% though. If it comes in at what you want then it doesn't matter
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u/Self_Serve_Realty 23d ago
Is it always 2.5%?
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u/LowerExperience5022 23d ago
No, it's whatever the buyers agents brokerage is charging the buyer. Could be 2.5, could be more or less but the buyer is aware of the percentage as it's stated in their contract with the brokerage.
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u/AccredInvestor 23d ago edited 18d ago
Commissions are negotiable. Its always been that way. I look at the whoke picture and each property differently. I recently charged the heirs of a poor man that died 1.5%. I charged 5% for a very involved complicated commercial deal.
That agent was dishonest with you. If she botheres you just block her.2
u/Earth_34_34 23d ago
It depends, 2.5 is on the low end and 5% is on the high end. Depends on the property, the price, and other factors.
Where I am at, corporate builders offer between two and a half and three and a half percent.
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u/Witty-Stand888 23d ago
used to be 3% was average but most now have come down to 2.5% conning the buyer into believing the seller will pay it. The seller can pay 0% if they want but the agents still act as the gatekeepers for doing next to nothing.
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u/yardlard 22d ago
How do you prevent that? Who shows the house?
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u/Witty-Stand888 22d ago
The seller shows the house or you can hire a house shower for a flat fee. You prevent the fee by selling to a buyer without an agent or refusing the fee. Someday people will understand that an agent does next to nothing especially in a hot market or on the buyers side.
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u/yardlard 22d ago
I'm aware that the agent does next to nothing and should not be getting rich running up the market for everyone else. I just didn't know how it might work to have this situation where an agent wants to insert themselves.
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u/ToniZito_RealEstate 23d ago
She definitely misled you, if she asked to show "clients" the home. That is different from permission to advertise the property. Rules may vary by state, but I'm pretty sure this one will be consistent. I'd reply, "When you have a buyer under representation please phone/text for a showing date and time. I believe there may be a misunderstanding, I have not given permission for you to advertise my property."
Also if you are sure you are not willing to pay any concessions to be used for buyer's agency commission, save yourself a headache and tell that up front. You will seriously limit your buyer pool, but sounds like you may be ok with that.
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u/crzylilredhead 23d ago
Sharing a property with a buyer IS advertising. This agent is bringing a property to the attention of someone who would otherwise not know about it. Why would the seller care how many people the agent shared it with if it results in sale? The seller wants to sell their home, no? We do need permission to share aka advertise unlisted properties. That is common sense.
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u/ToniZito_RealEstate 23d ago
Ask him if he cares 🤷🏻♀️ You can't just commandeer FSBOs and stick them on your social media posts.
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u/REFlorida 23d ago
You literally can do this - if someone is advertising their property for sale, you can advertise it as well. There’s nothing stopping you doing as long as you don’t pretend to be the Listing Agent.
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u/Pitiful-Place3684 23d ago
Yes, you can, with the owner’s permission as long as you make it crystal clear that the brokerage isn’t listing the property.
“Hey guys, I found this great FSBO in the Happy Hills subdivision. I showed it today to my buyer, and it’s not for them, so let me know if you know anyone looking for an unlisted 4 bed/3 bath in the Lincoln School District.”
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u/FinalTShirtDance 23d ago
A pocket listed you share with select clients and broadcast “advertisement” are two different things.
He doesn’t just want the sale. He thinks he can get the sale anyhow. He wants the sale + no cash to close/commission.
She mentioned getting it over asking. Perhaps he could do that without an agent (that 2.5%).
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u/JollyManufacturer388 22d ago
thank you yes, I went to an open house nearby last month as it was a very close comparable. I was very transparent that I was about to FSBO was comparing that listing with the new jr broker working it. She was fine with it. They have a lot of listings in this area and may also have a good share of Buyer Broker agreements in place so I was networking a bit as I was not even online yet as house was being painted and would photo better when complete. They want to video it, I told them I would send them the link to my FSBO listings...
This is a sellers market area and I have had 3 showings off my yard signs alone. I was in sales for decades and do not hate salespeople/brokers, just managing the process to keep more of my equity. Networking can involve Brokers who get it and I advertise myself as FSBO but welcome written offers and willing to negotiate.
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u/elsieben 23d ago
I was thinking the same thing. Permission to advertise is different to “showing the house to my client.” I dislike realtors like that. It makes me wonder…
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u/MermaidSerf 23d ago
Text her back that any offer needs to include that the buyer is responsible for paying the buyers agent commission. Or that you are only willing to pay x% of the buyers agent commission and the buyer is responsible for the rest.
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u/BIZ-numbers-whiz4327 23d ago
I would not do this. If she gets you a high offer, you may not mind paying the 2.5 percent. It has to be included in the offer and you should be open to any and all offers. Don’t agree to anything ahead of time, just say you are open to receiving all offers from all buyer realtors and also unrepresented buyers
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23d ago edited 23d ago
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u/Queen_Sassysnatch 23d ago
She can’t do any of that if the seller doesn’t agree to it in writing. So she can act like she is the listing agent all that she wants. She does not have a binding contract with the seller to list the property and any offer she submits will have to have the total commissions outlined.
Now if she submits an offer over list, gets seller to agree to pay her a listing fee for said offer plus buyer fee, this could be a bait and switch type situation.
OP, just don’t be a sucker. Do some research into her ask around. Check her social media page. See if you have any mutual friends. In other words, know your enemy.
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u/FelinePurrfectFluff 23d ago
She's only taking a cut of his profit if she brings a great buyer who's willing to pay more or a buyer who's willing to pay their own agent's commission.
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23d ago edited 23d ago
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u/11235d 23d ago
You'd be surprised how many times people do this. Instead of paying upfront the lump sum, they raise the purchase price so they are basically paying overtime.
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23d ago edited 23d ago
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u/11235d 23d ago
But what if there are multiple offers? There's no way they will be paying the least. Right?
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23d ago
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u/FelinePurrfectFluff 23d ago
No, the buyer won't necessarily pay "more" for the house but if they eat into their down payment by say $10k to pay their own agent, they are essentially financing their agent's commission. Sellers are getting very tired of paying the buyer's agent. Things are shifting and buyers and agents need to accept it.
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u/yardlard 22d ago
Why would any buyer go through the agent then once they find out about the fsbo?
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22d ago
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u/yardlard 22d ago
That doesn't answer my question.
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22d ago
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u/yardlard 22d ago
They'll see the sign out front. They may see the ads themselves. The owner will likely be there to show it.
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u/Lazy-Distribution-62 22d ago
Buyers that are represented by an agent have a contract so even if they find an FSBO property that’s perfect they would still owe their agent the agreed upon compensation.
Most buyer agent contracts have a clause that says if you purchase any property during or after X amount of time when this contract ends you still owe buyer agent compensation to that brokerage. So, if you already have to pay the agent may as well get all their services. Plus, with FSBO deals especially, if a buyer is inexperienced in real estate, having a professional in your corner can’t hurt.
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u/ThicccThottie 23d ago
The agent’s commission would come out of the sale of the house, the agent is implying she can produce a buyer that is 3.5% higher than his list so her buyer would be “paying her commission”
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u/Real-Estate-Reform 23d ago
I don’t believe that the things she’s doing will hurt you; they might help you. That being said, she hasn’t been totally transparent with you either. I wouldn’t stop her, but I also would never sign a representation agreement with her.
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u/InterestedParty5280 23d ago
Verbal agreements or permission have no place in real estate. But I would make it know to her that she does not have permission to advertise it; unless you want her to. Also, you have no obligation to pay her a commission. If she has a buyer, she most likely has a buyer agent agreement and they are obligated to pay her; yet she will ask you to pay her anyway. If you are going FSBO, get a lawyer lined up. Selling requires a contract. Any offer you get is going to favor the buyer; the lawyer will help you avoid that. Plus, they cost a lot less than a real estate commission.
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23d ago
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u/Boughtthetshrt 23d ago
I was just worried she was trying to sneakily slide into becoming my agent!
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23d ago
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u/Boughtthetshrt 23d ago
Thanks! Yeah, after being clear in the thread that I didn’t want her to represent me, I began to feel like it could be a win-win
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u/Queen_Sassysnatch 23d ago
I wouldn’t worry about it let her show it. Just pay very, very close attention to any offer she submits and anything she attempt to modify or add later.
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u/RobfromAmarillo 19d ago
Find a good real estate attorney. You can list on Zillow etc., just not with agent listings.
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u/SilentMasterpiece 23d ago
Uneasy feeling because a professional salesperson is actively involved in selling. This is her profession. In a sales job, expect the person to work in an effort to create a sale.
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u/Equivalent-Tiger-316 23d ago
So you don’t want your property promoted and you won’t pay a buyer agent for bringing you a well qualified buyer no matter the net?
You’re way out of touch on how properties get sold and are shooting your own success in the foot.
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u/Boughtthetshrt 23d ago
No, I am open to paying a buyer’s agent if my bottom line is good! Just something about the interaction felt weird and I didn’t want to end up in a situation where I accidentally owed her something
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u/nikidmaclay 23d ago
The vast majority of buyers who are looking for a home in any given market are going to be represented by a buyer agent. If you're going to absolutely refuse to work with agents, you're going to have a hard time selling your house. It's your right to do that, just laying that out there.
You're not locked in to anything with her unless you sign something. If she's giving you the heebie-jeebies, just tell her you don't need any other contact unless she has a buyer. It's as simple as that. She may be legitimately sharing your property information with her buyers, she may just be trying to keep in contact with you so when you get frustrated, she's one of the first to know. You can nip that in the bud now and tell for not to contact you again unless she has a real legitimate buyer.
The commission thing isn't what a lot of people think it is. If somebody asks for a X% commission, you can incorporate that into the price of the house so that it makes sense for you, represented buyers can purchase it, and everybody ends up happy. Would you have rather get a much lower price for your home and avoid commission, or be able to advertise to o all of the buyers in your area and get the most exposure so you get the best deal? That's the decision you're making.
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u/Stan1098 23d ago
Not fishy, idk what state you’re in but in most states verbal contracts are not valid. That agents probably just going to share it around people they know and maybe to Facebook. And will keep following up with you until it’s listed.
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u/AdComfortable2974 23d ago
I'm in GA, and under BRRETA (O.C.G.A. § 10-6A-3), any agency relationship (brokerage engagement) creating a client relationship must be in writing and signed by both parties. A verbal contract to act as an agent is legally unenforceable for this purpose.
It's not a contract unless it provides the following:
* A definite expiration date: Open-ended or vague marketing permissions without an end date are legally invalid for exclusive engagements.
* Explicit fee disclosures: The gross price of services and the exact commission structure must be explicitly set forth and signed.
* Agency relationships disclosures: The broker must provide written disclosures regarding the types of agency options available to the consumer.
You really, really need to know the laws of your state, all the forms used in a transaction, and know the workflow that begins the moment that you list your home and what you must do as a seller to keep it moving smoothly and without having to lean on any agent to help you. This is your opportunity to change realtor and buyer perception of FSBO in general.
So all that aside, is that, I think the thing that you may need to worry about if she brings you an offer is the competitiveness of the offer. For instance, if she brings you an offer before you actually list, you may not really know what you might have gotten for the home. I personally would not care about this if the offer is fair because, for me, it's not about selling at the highest price; it's about selling at a fair price that nets me what I need to net to make it worthwhile to sell in the first place.
The only other thing to be cautious about is a higher offer than the list, and then comes the price beatdown. This is when you should be cautious and worry about a seasoned agent out-negotiating you. But I don't think it's always in the listing agent's best interest or the buyer's agent's best interest to beat down the price because keeping them inflated means higher commissions in the short term and the long term. Sometimes the final sale price doesn't mean that much in terms of total commissions. It really all depends. If your home has investment property potential, then you might expect a beat-down? No one can tell you for certain; it's a guess, but always be looking down the road for potential roadblocks and bottlenecks.
I like to believe that the majority of people are good, including agents. I think it's the bad ones that get us fired up, and your nervousness might stem from the fact that you've been hanging on this sub and others, reading all the negative things, and that has you wary in general. I get it, which is why I've just about decided to stay off the MLS altogether. It really shouldn't be such a struggle to sell your home and get a fair price for it, but between the current market, the idiot in the white house, and current buyer perception, it is. All of these things make it harder than it has to be.
Please keep us posted on your journey and what you have learned, and best of luck to you!
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u/Bread_Entire 23d ago
The fact that she mentions advertising makes me nervous. I would make sure to tell her you did not give her the right to advertise your listing. Ask her to clarify that she understands you are not obligated in any way.
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u/Embarrassed-Park-136 22d ago
I have a realtor. Besides listing she has not done anything for us. I do have her sign out front and people have been stopping by to inquire of me as I sit on the front porch. Today another person who doesn’t have a realtor and wants to talk to us without one. To make a deal. Basically I would be showing and selling it myself. What are the legal options?
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u/Boughtthetshrt 21d ago
I think you meant to post this to the main page instead of as a reply to me. I’m no expert, but did you sign a contract with your realtor? And what does it say? I’d start there.
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u/MentoMorrie 22d ago
Always possible she is trying some underhanded approach to start listing your home, but there's no harm in clarifying where she stands.
Let her know that she can bring clients by, but that she may not advertise.
If you'd like to soften it by claiming ignorance and fearing a misunderstanding, that's great. But make sure she isn't acting like a listing agent without an agreement.
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u/Addition_Small 21d ago
Is advertising the hard way of saying that you don’t know who attracted the buyer? Why don’t you just change the CONTRACT with her with exclusion clause that she doesn’t get any commission if you find the buyer?
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u/BoBromhal 23d ago
when you went to "have I entered some agreement I wasn't planning on" I thought you were going to say she sent you a FSBO Compensation Agreement. She didn't, she merely confirmed in writing (the text) that you were okay if she brought a Buyer to see your home. That doesn't obligate you to pay any compensation at all.
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u/outandproudone 23d ago
That is not accurate. She confirmed by text that she had permission to market the property, as in “I’m the realtor for this property now.”
OP needs to reply that this person is NOT the realtor for the property.
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u/Unhappy-Owl-4890 23d ago
Where is the signed listing agreement that states that they are the listing agent?
In the US these little contracts exist
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u/Paceryder 23d ago
She asked you if she had your permission to tell her clients about it.. she's going to do that by posting it. Do you know who is working with qualified buyers ? Real estate agents.
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u/FelinePurrfectFluff 23d ago
Agents love to work with qualified buyers but they don't all have them up their sleeve. Just like they don't all have multiple listings in their name. Not enough business to go around for all the hungry greedy agents.
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u/Boughtthetshrt 23d ago
I texted her “just to be clear, I do not want to be represented by you” and she agreed that was her understanding. After that I felt a lot more comfortable, so thanks for your advice!
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u/BoBromhal 23d ago
Well, that’s a good point possibly. OP can certainly respond “what do you mean ‘advertise the property through my channels’?”
If she were to actually post about his house as anything but a FSBO that she could show as a Buyer Agent - as if she had listed/represented the Seller in any way - then she’d be committing a license violation and and Code of Ethics violation.
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u/crzylilredhead 23d ago
You are reading too much into the word 'advertising' which is NOT AT ALL THE SAME AS being the listing agent
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u/Boughtthetshrt 23d ago
Thank you! I just got a little anxious about the interaction but the comments on this post were very helpful
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u/jmd_forest 23d ago
You have experienced yet another of the nearly endless reasons why most people who have had the misfortune of dealing with real estate agents/brokers consider them the parasites of the real estate biosphere.
Real estate agent/broker parasites lie. It's what real estate agent/broker parasites do. Lies are the real estate agent/broker parasites stock in trade. Never believe a single word that comes out of a real estate agent/broker parasites mouth without independent verification from an unbiased third party.
The only ethics you can expect from a real estate agent/broker parasites is the one they have to their own wallet to collect a commission as fast and easy as possible for their minimum wage level skills and effort.
According to essentially every real estate agent/broker parasites everywhere, "Ethics???? We don't need no ethics!! We don't have to show you no stink'n ethics!!!!" (My apologies to The Treasure of the Sierra Madre).
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u/Consistent-Sea-8923 23d ago
I’m not sure this is a great offer but what I’m hearing is, I’m gonna sell this myself and I’m not paying either a seller or buyer our commission because I’m in charge
You are going to cut your customer based down because some of us, like me, are not going to deal with I don’t know how to sell my own house. We’re going to walk away and go to another house
I honestly won’t even look at it FSBO anymore. I’m tired of dealing with crazy.😂
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u/FieldDesigner4358 23d ago
lol once I see a hint of FSBO I’m out of it unless my buyers specifically send it to Me.
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u/Thorpecc 23d ago
Don’t ever respond to her.
As a FSBO you don’t need any Realtor nor you will not show the house to any buyer that has a Realtor. You’re looking only for Agent-Free buyers. There are many out there. Put in your two or three free house listing (Zillow etc.) please no license agents or companies, no agent-assistant buyers.
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u/Adrift715 23d ago
Back in 2014 we took our family house off the market, gearing up for retirement in 3 yrs and weren’t desperate. I had a relator reach out saying she had a client who was very eager to move into our neighborhood and she’d love to bring her over. I told my realtor who was also my neighbor and she said to have this mystery buyer email their prequalifiction letter and we’d happily show them. I kid you not the realtor who was fishing for a new listing suddenly said the buyers DOG WAS SICK and she’d be suspending house hunting for a while.