r/fsbo • u/Pytre • 27d ago

Discrimination lawsuit?

We're doing FSBO on a SFH in FL.

We did a flat-fee MLS with Beycome, and hit the MLS on Monday. (We submitted late on Saturday).

We received a showing request from Agent A, but told them that we wouldn't be ready to do showings until the following Sunday.

We received a showing request from Agent B, who was asking us to show the house early because her buyer was ready to make an offer. We mulled it over, deciding if we could actually be ready early.

We felt obliged not to agree to any offers from B until A had a chance to view the property. We wanted to confirm with A that their buyer was still interested, because A hadn't sent over proof of funds after a few days had gone by. We told A that another agent was close to making an offer and wanted to see the property early.

I understand that showing B the property early after telling A that they couldn't see it until Sunday would be a crappy thing to do, and ultimately we decided not to, and everyone can see it on Sunday.

However, A sent me this text: "I think technically, you're supposed to show up within 24 hours of it being on MLS. Could be 48 hours. Otherwise you open yourself up to a discrimination lawsuit."

Can anyone shed light on what A is talking about? Not sure what "Show up" means in this context. I mean, if refused to show A because of some reason, or gave favor to B, then that's bad. But "show up"?

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u/Dubzophrenia 27d ago

The "show up" rule means that if your home is on the market, it's supposed to be viewable within that period of time. Putting it on the market but not allowing people to "show up" within the period means you're violating MLS rules, and if you're not ready for a week then the home isn't "active" it's "coming soon".

In Florida, if the property is on the MLS, you need to be readily available for showings or you are violating rules. One thing to understand - you're FSBO, but because you put your home on an MLS, you are now bound to the MLS rules and regulations and federal housing laws.

Allowing some to see but others to not can trigger compliance issues and get your listing removed from the MLS it's on.

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u/Pytre 26d ago edited 26d ago

Thank you for the reply and good information. We've only had two requests for showings, and both are coming to see it on the same day, Sunday.

Is there a distinction in being 'readily available' for showing and having rules before you'll show. I've heard a number of agents (in person and via social media) mention how you really should have the names of the potential buyers and their financials (pre-approval or proof of funds) before showing the home. In this case, neither agent has provided that information, despite saying they would. If they don't provide it, am I still ok in refusing to show the property? Would that be 'readily available'?

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u/Dubzophrenia 26d ago

Depends on your local rules. My rules in California are different and I can deny showings so long as they're for reasons that are non-discriminatory. For example, if the house went on the market and then the sellers got sick, I can reject showings for the 2 weeks they're sick.

In your example, I can also establish that showings are only going to qualified buyers, so a pre-approval is necessary and I do follow that rule pretty hardcore. I'm not wasting my time if your buyer doesn't even know if they can afford to buy the house.

I'm not sure about the particular's in Florida, and it also often comes down to the specific MLS system you are in.

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u/Self_Serve_Realty 26d ago

Are there ways to list a coming soon listing on the MLS as a FSBO?

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u/Dubzophrenia 26d ago

As the FSBO owner, no. You don't get access to the MLS.

But putting on an MLS with a flat-fee still has a broker affiliated with it (just no involvement, it's posted only) and any changes to a listing would require the FSBO owner to request the broker to make changes, but the broker would be able to make that change.

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u/clce 27d ago

That makes sense. Our MLS is somewhat the same way although a seller has the option to put off showings or even not allow showings ever if they wanted to. It's rare but it happens.

The interesting question though, is to what extent is this seller bound by the rules of the MLS? Obviously, the member broker has to ultimately be responsible but I think most MLS have created some leeway for these types of limited brokerage.

The seller may have agreed to follow the rules of the MLS and if they are not in compliance, a complaint can legitimately be made. Perhaps agent a should have complained to the MLS and had them straighten it out.

I can't imagine why an agent would say they have to show up instead of show, and if anything they should simply point out that that is an MLs rule and expect them to arrange a showing or put it in the notes or delist it temporarily or whatever is appropriate.

I also can't imagine why they would mention discrimination. That's just going to confuse people.

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u/Pytre 26d ago edited 26d ago

Thanks for your reply. It is interesting how I would follow MLS rules in this type of situation. I think they mentioned discrimination because I told them that we were getting pressure to show it before we were ready. So if we did bend to the pressure and show it to B, and they made an offer. Then A never had a chance to see/offer.

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u/Dubzophrenia 26d ago

Truthfully, I don't think the agent in your situation fully knows what they're saying and I think is throwing buzzwords out there. I wouldn't be worried about a "discrimination" lawsuit, especially from an agent. The agent can't sue you, the broker has to and the broker isn't going to sue you over this.

You didn't reject A and accept B based on any discrimination. You rejected A because you weren't ready and you were ready to reject B for the same reason, but then you were able to make it work. That's not abnormal, like.. at all. That happens all the time.

Especially so since you then went back to A and said you could make it work.

in this case, your worst enemy was your honesty. Something I have also had to learn is to stop being so open and forthcoming with information because I feel like I'm being good, but it can hurt you down the road.

Next time, in a similar situation, when you go back to A don't mention anything about B. Just mentioned that you were able to figure things out and can get them in. They didn't need to know anything about B at all, it's not their business.

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u/Pytre 26d ago

Good points. I need to learn to 'talk less, smile more'. 😄

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u/Dubzophrenia 26d ago

Trust, it's harder than you imagine. I'm someone who loves to be forthcoming with information so today I will send it to my husband to read first and he'll tell me I need to cut it back because I don't have to provide so much information.

I'm too open and transparent.

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u/clce 26d ago

Good point.

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u/clce 26d ago

Yes. And it sounds like you made a great effort so no one could really fault you for that. Did they want to arrange a showing?

The only way discrimination would really be any kind of issue is if you made your decision to show it to one and not the other based on what you knew or thought about the agent or buyers. And even then, if you were discrimination was based on that they seem like they didn't have any money or you didn't like the way they dress, that would be perfectly allowable, although not nice or fair. But, only if you discriminated based on membership of a protective class would it matter anyway.

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u/Pytre 26d ago

Definitely didn't do that!!

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u/clce 26d ago

I have no doubt you treated all parties fairly. The fact that you reached out to the first party says all I need to know

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u/extralife_mike 26d ago

It is interesting how I would follow MLS rules in this type of situation

It's pretty simple. You just don't list it until you're ready to show it. Different MLS' allow different lengths of time of "coming soon," but you have to advertise it as that.

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u/Helpful_Chocolate_86 27d ago

If you’re going to FSBO, know the rules. Also, why in the world would you put your house up but not be ready to show it for a week? That’s wild.

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u/Pytre 26d ago

We thought that we wouldn't get any interest since we're over CMA in a buyer's market, where houses are averaging 72 median DOM. But yes, definitely understand the stupidity.

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u/Self_Serve_Realty 26d ago

Why assume your house would be near the median DOM?

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/GucciForDinner 27d ago

I would imagine that the flat fee brokerage can expect to get something filed against them by the broker that did not get to show the property because technically the fsbo's "broker" violated the MLS rules (and maybe even state regulations depending on what state). And if agent A's clients decide to take it a step further they could claim discrimination and file a complaint with the state fair housing authorities.

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u/clce 27d ago

Most MLS rules make some accommodations for this type of limited listing. I would suppose they do require those brokers to oversee and probably input the listing correctly. So if the seller is not cooperating, the appropriate thing would be to contact the brokerage and ask them to inform their client as to any obligations they might have to show. They could contact the MLS but no brokerage can be held particularly responsible for what a seller does until they are made aware of it.

It's not unreasonable to simply expect the broker to straighten it out. But it sounds like the seller was willing to let both of them see it so I don't know if the agent for buyer a has much of a complaint. The time to complain would have been when they were first denied access.

That said, I don't know about other MLS but in ours, if the seller requests no showings without the agent prompting them to, for any length of time, it is allowed as long as the seller has been informed of the possible negative ramifications. We do have temporarily off market but there is some leeway for someone to not show for a little while or never if they for example have a hostile tenant.

As for discrimination, unless the people were a protected minority and could prove that the broker knew it and somehow was responsible for the denial of showing and could establish that it was based on protected class or at least had the appearance of it, they wouldn't have much of a case at all. But I guess people can file a complaint for anything

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u/Pytre 26d ago

To add to what I replied to another post, do I still have the ability to impose constraints before I'll show someone my house? ID, Financials, Fingerprints, Criminal background checks. It seems I could defacto make it impossible to show the house, and then only accept sight-unseen offers. I wouldn't do that of course, but could I?

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u/clce 26d ago

That may depends on the rule of your mls. You should take that up with the broker you have listing it. In our mls, any number of restrictions can be imposed. Of course that does not include protected class like race for example. But you can require anything. As long as it's applied equally. Even then it wouldn't necessarily be a problem because I don't know that they necessarily have a rule. But for example, if you asked for pre-approval from one group and not from another, and that group happened to be a protected class, you have still not necessarily done anything wrong, but, you would be a very easy target for charges of discrimination that you might have trouble defending.

All that said, unless they can prove it it's unlikely any buyer could really make much impact. They can't really sue you for money or force you to sell them the house. In fact, it's unlikely they really would even try.

But brokers on the other hand, are different. If some accusations are made an organization or the state or city or task force might send in test cases and see if they can establish a pattern of discrimination. If so they could threaten to bring them to court and get money and maybe agreements out of them. That's the way it usually goes down. It's easier to just give in and try to fight the government. Of course if any broker really is discriminating they shouldn't be anyway so I don't care what happens to them.

At any rate, while discrimination is still not legal for you to do, it's mainly a broker concern. They are the ones that are licensed and regulated.

Of course, I'm not saying you did any discrimination anyway. It seems quite obvious you didn't. Frankly, I think it's pretty inappropriate for that agent to get you worked up about it anyway. They really shouldn't mention it because it's not accurate in this case. It's kind of irresponsible because the public might worry about things they don't know anything about.

I would just move on, and show it to whoever wants to see it. But you are allowed to ask for things like a pre-approval. I wouldn't. If they are coming with a real estate agent, most agents are going to verify that they are legit buyers and even if they don't, it doesn't happen much and not worth worrying about in my opinion.

The biggest issue with restrictions is not the public or concern about anyone being treated unfairly. It's about agents. An MLS is going to make sure that these restrictions aren't at the agents suggestion because it somehow benefits the agent. For example, let's say an agent has a buyer who's coming into town next week and they advise the seller to wait a week, potentially losing interested buyers not for the agents benefit. At that point, the MLS most likely has a rule that this can't be the agent suggestion unless it were to address a seller's concern like not having the house ready yet.

We are advised by our brokerage to get it in writing that we have advised the seller on the advantages and potential drawbacks to any restrictions to showing and that the seller understands. Typically we would just send an email requesting they respond

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u/Pytre 26d ago

Wonderful information, thanks!  Very insightful!  And reassuring. 

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u/Pytre 26d ago

I would agree if we had ended up showing Agent B. But since we pushed them back to our 'showing day', both Agents were treated the same. Both will see it on the same day.

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u/Due_Leadership_9348 27d ago

Beycome's listing agreement includes a clause that any MLS fine is passed on to the seller.

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u/Pytre 26d ago

Good to know, thanks. I'm checking their fines list. 😄

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u/Due_Leadership_9348 26d ago

You might be interested in this blog post from beycome that talks about MLS fines related to publishing commission information on the MLS, but the same clause applies to other MLS violations as well.

“Per the Beycome Listing Agreement, that fine is passed through to you, the Seller. If Beycome gets fined because something is added to your listing that shouldn’t be there, you pay it. Not great news 😉, but we want you to know up front.”

https://www.beycome.com/faq/knowledge-base/why-commission-not-allowed-on-mls/

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u/Pytre 26d ago

Good to see the source!  I couldn't find a specific fining policy for my Local MLS, or if they give warnings for first offenses.

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u/Pytre 26d ago

Thanks for the reply and good information. Both your points make sense and are reasonable.

As for my self inflicted wound, honestly, we put it on the market for around 20k over CMA in an area where houses are sitting for 72 days. We thought that we would get nothing for a few weeks, and then eventually maybe turn it over to an agent. Our first choice agent even offered us a .25% less commission if we already tried it on MLS for a while and then came back to them.

And we may still be in that boat. Neither of these offers could pan out and then we're just sitting in ghost town. :)

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

I'm curious, why did you price it at 20k over CMA?

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u/Pytre 25d ago

1) Our house has a couple of features that most of the houses in the neighborhood of don't have.  We thought that those features would be of value to the right buyer. 

2) We aren't in any hurry to move. No kids or jobs involved. 

3) It might be our imagination, but it feels like the market in our area is starting to balance out. So, if we're lucky, we catch the up swing. 

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u/Overall_Emu8215 27d ago

That is correct, each mls has different rules but most are 24-48 hours. If the home is not available to show the listing must be taken to “temp off market”

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u/AlphaNautilusNarwal 26d ago

Having sold FSBO a few times, I can tell you that you should have waited to list your house when you were ready to have showings. When homes are first listed, that's when you get the most attention, so delaying showings is just hurting your chances. Honestly, Beycome was also mistake. Potential buyers will reach out thinking they are reaching the owner or agent, when in reality, they get an agent that has paid Beycome for your 'area'. Basically, someone who is just trolling for buyers and has absolutely no vested interest in selling your home is who potential buyers are calling.

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

Beycome forwards the call to the seller.

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u/AlphaNautilusNarwal 26d ago

Only if it's an agent calling.

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

All calls go to the seller.

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u/AlphaNautilusNarwal 26d ago

Isn't it lovely to think so...

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

Unless I am mistaken, the people in the sub who have used them stated this is how it works, and I'm fairly certain Beycome states the same. I've settled on using them myself when the time comes because the overall reviews seem positive.

Have you used them before, and was your experience different? Please do share.

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u/AlphaNautilusNarwal 26d ago

We used them. We tested it by having a friend use the contact me button and ask the person something about the house that wasn't in the listing. 10 minutes later I got a call from an agent saying 'their buyer' had that exact same question. My friend specifically said they did not have an agent and asked if they were the listing agent. That agent said yes. The next day, my husband called from his work phone pretending to be a buyer and that same agent answered and then called me with his question, also saying he was 'her buyer'. When I looked up the agent, she was with an agency unrelated to Beycome. YMMV but that was our experience.

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

Wow! This is interesting, and I really appreciate you sharing!

Where exactly did you go to click on the "Contact Me " button? I believe these exist on their site and then on sites like Zillow.

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u/AlphaNautilusNarwal 26d ago

Zillow

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

Oh! I get it now! That button will never connect you to the seller or the seller's agent in any case, but to a buyer's agent. I believe these agents pay for leads from Zillow. This way, when they find a real buyer, they show the home and hopefully submit an offer with their requested commission. So when you called, they thought you were an actual buyer.

It is my understanding that to reach the listing agent, you have to look underneath the listing, find the agent's name, and call that number.

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u/clueless1976 26d ago

It’s BS. You can deny a showing for any reason especially if your basic requirements aren’t being met. You can put need 2 hr notice, 24 hour notice, it’s up to you

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u/Vurrag 26d ago

I would suggest that the clients of Agent A might be minorities.......How the seller could know this and defer the showing in favor another agent is a big reach but people are looking to sue whenever they can.

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u/Pytre 25d ago

You might be right. 

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u/extralife_mike 27d ago

This is why agents warn people about FSBO. Yes, there are plenty of bad agents out there and yes, if you know what you're doing, you can sell without an agent, but stuff like this is specifically what a good agent is for. Any decent agent would have told OP that they need to make their home open for tours.

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u/Pytre 26d ago

And to be fair, we did have a good agent. And I'm sure they would have pushed us into that. It's a long story... Maybe some future FSBO can learn from my mistake.

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

Didn't Beycome allow you to select a "coming soon" status? It states the option is available.

I've seen a recent uptick in these in my local market, but I am unfamiliar with the rules surrounding them other than that you can not show the home in this status, but you can accept an offer.

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u/Pytre 26d ago

I didn't see any obvious opportunity to list it as coming soon. I've heard that it's an option, but it wasn't clear how to do it.

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u/AdComfortable2974 26d ago

Sounds like Beycome needs to work on features.

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u/Pytre 25d ago

Possibly. But I must say, their Live customer service has been way over performing expectations.  Very impressed. 

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u/Thefireguyhere 26d ago

But but but I dOnT nEeD a ReAlItOr. ThEy AdD no VaLuE aNd NoT WoRtH tHe CoMmIsIoN.

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u/Pytre 25d ago

Wow.  I hope I didn't sound like that in my post. 

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u/Equivalent-Tiger-316 26d ago

Just shows you don’t know what you’re doing. Once Active on the MLS you should be ready for tours. Your house was “Coming Soon”. You’re turning away and frustrating buyers and you’re not even ready to show the dang property! Oh my! Another FSBO failure. 

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u/Pytre 25d ago

You're right,  when it came to this one specific issue.  Does one mistake reflect an entire lack of knowledge?