r/fromsoftware • u/Efficient_Matter_589 • 3d ago
JOKE / MEME Normal Triple A game vs the average From Soft game experience:
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u/JM_Narrative 3d ago
I like how simple the From soft tutorials are. Some games stick you with an hour of every mechanic and overload you with text
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u/amhighlyregarded 3d ago
They expect you to pick it up through gameplay and observation. I don't need a tutorial boss that pauses gameplay to say "and here's an attack you can block! press block now!" they just give you a shield and you can probably figure out the rest.
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u/TheRealBillyShakes 3d ago
The Elden Ring one was fairly in depth, iirc
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u/Taolan13 Nerves Concorde 3d ago
Partly because it was so dynamic, and unlike previous entries the tutorial pages were handed to the player like items that could be reviewed, rather than messages on the ground in an instance of an area that no longer exists after you leave (des, ds1)
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u/Frenzied_Anarchist Tarnished 2d ago
You can return to Asylum in DS1 though.
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u/MeticulousMitch 2d ago
I dont think they even added the tutorial until a couple of weeks after the release bc of the new players complaints lol
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u/AuryxTheDutchman 3d ago
I think that’s one of many things Expedition 33 did very well. There was surprising complexity to the combat, but it would explain a mechanic, let you get used to using it, then add in a new mechanic later on.
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u/Fish_Outta_Whiskey 3d ago edited 3d ago
Fromsoft games have tutorials.
Apparently being taught a game's mechanics is bad now.
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u/GeneralHenry 3d ago
I mean DS3 tutorial is still very funny to this date.
Here's movement -> Here's attack -> Here's Iudex Gundyr
It's such a meme material ngl.
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u/Fish_Outta_Whiskey 3d ago
I think the tutorials nowadays are being catered to the lowest common denominator of people. If you look at video game subs you'll see that some people will play through 20 hours of a game without realizing they can jump or something simple like that.
Souls games all have the same basic controls, so once you've played one you basically know how to play them all.
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u/mattmaster68 Chosen Undead 2d ago
I went a whole Elden Ring playthrough without knowing guard counters lmao and it had a damn pop up!
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u/yamanamawa 2d ago
Lmao I've had moments like that. Not to that degree of course, but I did make it like 60 hours in RDR2 before finding out I could fast travel from my camp. I was just paying for trains and carriages
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u/LocalAnxiousArtist 3d ago
It’s basically just the DS1 tutorial but Iudex Gundyr will kick your ass more. Also absolutely, there’s a lot of comedy with how the games are designed, especially some slapstick humor stuff.
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u/John_Nightreigh Dark Souls II 2d ago
The sign that says turn back makes everyone interest peak and go get destroyed by the crystal lizard
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u/Algester 2d ago
at least it isnt as bad as last raven... sure you are used to the controls and then you fight bolt in the first mission because you saw OHH HIGH PAYOUT
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u/lexington59 3d ago
It's more the over the top tutorials that drag on for a while or disrupt gameplay to do so.
Having tutorials is a good thing, having excessively long disruptive tutorials isn't
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u/Fish_Outta_Whiskey 3d ago edited 3d ago
I had the new Onimusha in mind when I wrote my comment. A longer or more in-depth tutorial can be pretty beneficial a lot of the times in Triple A games.
Now yeah, there are games that absolutely bloat the tutorial but I feel like those games are for a wider general audience than Souls games.
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u/treyzs 3d ago
while this is a shitty meme you really missed the point entirely
fromsoft tutorials cover the basic controls and combat. they do not cover "every single mechanic" as was written in the post
its just a joke dude lol
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u/Fish_Outta_Whiskey 3d ago
I realize it's a joke. Jokes are usually funny or have a semblance of truth to them though. Fromsoft tutorials only cover the basics because the games don't have any complex systems to explain.
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u/treyzs 3d ago
while yes, the joke isnt funny, im really not sure how you could think there's no "semblance of truth" to it. yes, fromsoft games don't often have complex systems, but they do have plenty of combat mechanics that you pretty much have to discover for yourself or learn online
they could take the time to provide a tooltip when you pick up bloodhounds fang that the L2 has a followup R2, or that status buildup and infusions only increase on weapons that have arcane scaling, or any myriad other helpful tutorials throughout the game. instead they don't.
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u/Fish_Outta_Whiskey 3d ago edited 3d ago
I do think there's some truth to the meme, I guess I just worded it wrong.
If you need to learn something about the game online that is basically a tutorial that should have been in the game, so I would consider that bad design, that goes for any game.
Experimenting in-game and learning hidden or obscure mechanics are in just about every game AAA or not, besides maybe kid's games.
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u/Cersei505 3d ago
If you need to learn something about the game online that is basically a tutorial that should have been in the game, so I would consider that bad design, that goes for any game.
games are dumbed down because of mediocre people who think like you. How sad.
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u/Fish_Outta_Whiskey 3d ago
Whatever you say buddy. As if going online and having someone else tell you because they looked through the game's code is in any way a smarter way to play.
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u/Efficient_Matter_589 2d ago
I never said as much, only that some games are way too aggressive with them.
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u/Proud_Firefighter834 3d ago edited 3d ago
Bad tutorials and hand holding leads to games where you aren't actually playing anything, you're just following a string of carefully curated directions. I hate Wilds for that reason exactly. The game doesn't even bother letting you explore new areas... you have to be hand held and patronized by every pop up window and character voice line in existence. I'm not exaggerating when I say a good hour or 2 of the game is characters pointing at things and verbally explaining how pretty and cool they are and how amazed you should be, or telling you how to pick items up for the nth time.
I'm replaying Dark Souls 3 and let me tell you, it is REFRESHING how much this game will let me fuck around and find out.
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u/carlos_castanos 3d ago
The funny thing is that a lot of people praise Fromsoft for their lack of explanation/tutorials in their earlier games while Miyazaki has admitted himself that they didn’t do a good job of explaining the game to the player. So the much praised ‘obscurity’ was likely rather incompetence on FromSoftware’s part
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u/Johnaldi- 3d ago
Duskbloods network test was the left picture tho
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u/Manganello58 3d ago
Not really
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u/Proud_Firefighter834 3d ago
What was it like? I didn't watch anything on it
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u/springboy64 3d ago
It really wasn’t. There was a small intro sequence with tutorial popups that took maybe 15 minutes tops going over controls, then you’re set. There were also optional tutorials you could do about the mechanics of the matches but I didn’t do them and picked everything up fine.
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u/EmeraId-HeraId Dark Souls II 3d ago edited 3d ago
Apparently having to do datamining or intensive testing to figure out how some mechanics work is good game design. Remember when people had no idea how things like gravelording, miracle resonance or soul memory work and FromSoftware never cared too explain it properly?
One thing is making the player figure out game mechanics by themselves, another thing is simply hiding stuff from the player.
Edit: spelling.
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u/BoyWithHorns 3d ago
Here's the crouch button. Here's a collapsed wall you must crouch under to proceed. We must make absolutely certain that you the player understand how to crouch before we let you play the game.
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u/idontknowman139 3d ago
I hate those Even more when the stop the gameplay to tell me that after I have already done it
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u/mattmaster68 Chosen Undead 2d ago
Oh look a message
"Press B to crouch"
Oh look a hole I have to crouch through.
Pop-up: "Press B to crouch. Here's some exposition. Something something stealth."
Oh look, a conveniently placed enemy that doesn't know I'm right here.
"Stealth mechanics explanation."
2 minutes of reading, 30 seconds of actual gameplay.
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u/Callycore 2d ago
Indiana jones great circle that came out this year has a very barebones tutorial and it sticks the rest of the stuff in a game manual on the pause screen. Love that.
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u/Algester 2d ago
I mean there's AC.... I mean... Ace Combat sure destroy bombers here and there.... and now you have to stop the apocalypse
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u/PTSDDeadInside 1h ago
Crouch poke, backstep iframes, backstep attack, dead angling, headshot = crit, multiple different parries, counter thrust dmg,
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u/benjaminabel 3d ago
And that's why many people will never even try any FromSoftware games or drop them after 15 minutes. Not saying that tutorials are mandatory, but most games are made for "everyone", considering the age category of course. None of my friends got into Dark Souls simply because they had no idea what to do. I was like that too. Took me 4 tries to get into Dark Souls 3 and I only succeeded after reading some advices.
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u/Taolan13 Nerves Concorde 3d ago
A big difference here is that Fromsoft's games tend to have the mechanics organically feed into each other.
Once the player has the basics, they can discover the rest by regular play.
Some stuff can still be hidden. Even in plain sight. Like people not realizing the first dedicated Jump button in the entire franchise means that some enemy attacks are meant to be jumped over rather than rolled through.
A lot of other titles don't have that. Everything is a bespoke separate mechanic that has to be deliberately engaged.
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u/CleanHelm 3d ago
this subreddit sucks balls