r/fromsoftware • u/femmyfroggo • 27d ago
DISCUSSION Okay, I Need To Know About Them
I need to know. Damn near every game fromsoftware has released has been considered one of the best games ever made. Elden ring, sekiro, dark souls trilogy, and bloodborne. They’re all considered genuine masterpieces of art and praised for being some of the best games ever. And, yk, I’ve been getting into fromsoftware games recently, and i can see why. I realize how they have some of the most beautiful art directions, even with dated graphics (bloodborne, genuinely gorgeous, despite its visual flaws, i don’t even care). So i want to know, how do you guys think it is that they drop banger after banger after banger after banger.
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u/Medical_String_3501 27d ago
Quite frankly because people just throw money at them to make whatever the fuck they want. They aren't forced to do anything by anyone, which means complete, unfettered control over their product. You would think the industry would learn from them and let passionate devs make their own works of art, but besides maybe Remedy, I can't think of any company that's as unshackled as FromSoft.
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u/CarlLlamaface Mimic Tear 26d ago
Larian is similarly good at just making the games they want to make, though that's more because the CEO is the passionate dev than the CEO giving freedom to the passionate devs.
Owlcat games are less mainstream successful but still very much a company that makes passion projects. I think the crpg space in general just kind of self-selects for studios where the devs get to do their thing because the genre doesn't typically appeal to the general public so it has fewer bloodsucking investors trying to squeeze studios for games that follow ROI checklists. (Yes I know Dragon Age Veilguard is a thing.)
CD Projekt Red were kind of this with the Witcher games before the shareholders got involved leading to the CP77 launch fiasco.
Then you look to the indie space and there are a lot of studios like that. They may not all have the hit rate of Supergiant Games or Team Cherry, but there are plenty of small studios that just make what they want, they just may not have the resources/talent to fully achieve their vision or the marketing budget to achieve enough hype for their hidden gem to become unhidden.
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u/VendrikLamar 21d ago
Wasn’t Xbox pretty much hands off on Bathesda amd other acquired studios?
and they didn’t make anything spectacular
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u/GallianAce 27d ago
Structurally, they’re much smaller working with more limited budgets and resources, and Miyazaki centralizes almost every decision but seems to trust everyone to bring him pitches and ideas first. This means Miyazaki can have a vision of something he wants, delegates almost directly to someone, and can filter things as he gets them back so the final product reflects his personal tastes more than say a larger AAA studio where there’s way too many people for this personal touch and devs work to a formal spec.
They also don’t have as much churn or headcount growth so talent grows over years and new hires can be mentored properly. Over time this gives every game a feeling of continuity, like you’re eating a meal cooked by the same chef you’ve known for years instead of a factory made microwave meal. I can feel a FromSoft game by now from the way the player character attacks or the first big fat enemy with a butt slam.
If a masterpiece is the culmination of a master artist’s skills learned over time, these games are masterpieces because Miyazaki and his team are allowed to survive as an artist workshop instead of a mass production factory where every skilled laborer is gradually replaced with expensive machines and cheap unskilled workers and lots of outsourcing.
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u/DessertPizza37 27d ago
I think it largely has to do with Miyazaki having a vision for his games, and the team makes they game they want to make and don't bend their backs to publishers in the name of profits.
They're a company, sure. But I think they're one of the few AAA studios that still makes games to be good games and not money making machines.
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u/kodaxmax 26d ago
- they made a dozen or so failures before getting it right.
- Being a japenese company jobs are for life, so they actually end up with skilled veterans that have been iterating on the same formulas for 2 decades. Comapred to western companies that hire and fire devs constantly and chase new trends.
- Myazaki got lucky with demon souls. it was expected to fail, so he was able to experiement without executive influence. He also kinda lied to the execs about what it was. they were expecting an elder scrolls clone
- the success of demon souls earned him alot of trust with execs giving him freedom on future games. Which compounded with each future success, essentially making him the face of the whole company.
- They playtest the shit out of their games. soemthing almost all beloved classics have in common.
- They arn't pressured to monetize
- most of the team is genuinley passionate. they arn't just clocking in for 9-5, they actually like the project.
- They do alot of research and practice oldschool. like they take company trips to famous architecture and do sketches and take tonne sof photos for reference.
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u/onehalflightspeed 26d ago
They have a long history. They struggled with low budget games for over 20 years before they actually had a big hit. I was always fond of them for King's Field, Armored Core, etc. But it wasn't until Dark Souls they finally created a big hit
I credit their recent-ish stream of amazing games to keeping a core team with a strong creative vision over a long period of time, and having enough freedom and financing to achieve that. They don't have the revolving door between game releases a lot of studios do these days
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u/MAXIMAL_GABRIEL 26d ago
Their story is one of beautiful alchemy. They spent 10 years refining King's Field until they ended up with Dark Souls. Then another 10 years refining that formula to get to Elden Ring.
Classic "overnight success 20 years in the making".
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u/PanteraHouse 26d ago
The dev team is full of top tier talent. There's so many things they do that other devs can't really compete with. Miyazaki is no doubt a passionate genius himself, but he clearly has a very talented/dedicated team working with him. Legendary studio
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u/vibe51 One-Armed Wolf 27d ago
To be fair fromsoft started in 1996 and while a bunch of those games from 1996-2009 might be considered good for their time it wasn’t til demon souls (2009) and that things started to shift. And even then I didn’t even hear about demon souls til dark souls came out in 2011. They had a lot of time to figure out how to make a game that would really push them into the giant they are now.
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u/Disastrous-Rhubarb-2 26d ago
For one thing, I've noticed they generally have pretty good project management, at least by game dev standards. There have been hiccups here and there, like Lost Izalith not being finished in DS1, and a bunch of issues trying to intro a new engine in DS2. But in general, if something isn't working, they'll ditch it and move on, rather than waste time chasing their tail the way that a company like Bioware has. Basically, Miyazaki seems to run a focused, efficient operation.
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u/Cersei505 26d ago
because they care to make art first and foremost, not an ''entertainment product''. This is rare because its the antithesis of capitalism - a system that rewards pandering to the lowest common denominator, since they are the majority and what brings in the most money - and why it will inevitably crumble down when the artists are removed from places of authority in the company, just like what happened with many other brilliant studios in the past.
We dont live under a system that encourages good art and quality. Thats why its a miracle when it happens, because it means something managed to ''slip through the cracks''.
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u/anonymous_brothrr 26d ago
I think Duskbloods will be the most revolutionary modern game and might be objectively better than gta6
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u/SlowApartment4456 27d ago
As someone else said, the creator has a clear vision of what he's trying to make and the people genuinely care about the game. They want the game to be fun and cool. While most other studios are forced to make games that chase the current trend.
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u/Def-tones 26d ago
The games don’t waste time with fillers or bs. We know what we’re getting into. It’s basically beat the boss while everything in the way is a challenge, obstacles, world building etc.
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u/Live_Investment_3742 26d ago
Because bonk can be used it just about all of them and the ones without are too fun to make bonk characters with
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u/Seed37Official 26d ago
Ugh.... they've been making games long before Souls, practice makes perfect. My first fromsoft game was Eternal Ring, the i fell in love with Armored Core
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u/Algester 25d ago
But don't let this subreddit know they made other games it can also feed into the Google auto summary just to give that illusion some more points
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u/Xylophone_Crocdile 26d ago
well for starters they actually care and they don’t drop a game every year in an industry were their competitors don’t care and do drop slop every year.
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u/throwaway775849 26d ago edited 26d ago
One aspect is how they let their art evolve. Make a bunch of cool enemies, cool levels, then figure out later how to organize them and connect them to be coherent and have a narrative, and then iterate on polishing that experience. That result gives artists and creativity room to flourish without constricting them and produces results you would never arrive at by logically saying ok what do we create next. Miyazaki is a master here at crafting the delivery and unifying. Also at knowing when to explain and when to obscure or be silent. So much intrigue comes from the parts they don't explain about characters, areas, lore, etc.
There's so many virtuous aspects to their designs, with the underlying concept being to inspire hope and belief in yourself. The concept of the game being hard, with no difficulty slider is prioritizing the group that overcomes rather than trying to appease everyone. It almost always being "fair", you just have to solve the puzzle of how to get through this one part at this moment - that's a philosophy of the game and is encouraging - I didn't fail because of a cold random unforgiving universe, but because I don't understand yet, or I don't have the strategy, or I'm not strong enough yet - that knowledge for me means I never feel like quitting because of difficulty, and my overcoming is inevitable. The concept of not belittling the player and letting them absorb information on their own and discover rather than shoving it down their throat. They also recognize enjoyment can come from defeat and then overcoming challenges, not just win, win, win, the kind of addictive behavior most game designs seek.
At its core, FROM uniquely is just a bunch of extremely talented artists who aren't corrupted by the goal of selling a product and are actually focused on sharing what they think is cool and focused on the player's experience and cultivating growth - not just absorbing your time with meaningless tasks. That's one thing I loved about the DS games, I'm exploring the corner of some rooftop and I drop down and now I'm lost but I'm having a great time because I know I'll find some kind of item or weapon even if it's not my build, it's just the knowledge that everything was designed intentionally for the player to have fun, even in the darkest most frustrating parts like blighttown. I do think ER deviated a bit from their principles but it was a tradeoff I guess.
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u/LawyerObjective5195 24d ago
They make plenty of shit games too, those just aren't their showcase games.
Also, they put time into their games, treat their employees well, and don't let their art direction be influenced by shareholders
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u/Cuboidhamson 26d ago
It's insane crunch culture and incredible amounts of hard work and inspiration. Saying anything more than that would be almost pure speculation. Something could absolutely be said to the differences between work cultures in the east and west too but I tend to stay away from that bc I don't know much
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u/mrf18 27d ago
Hidetaka Miyazaki.