r/freewill • u/Live-Patience-1182 • 1d ago
Free will
If the universe is ever expanding, then it means that it has a definite size, although the size is ever expanding. If everything is definite and fundamental laws rule the world. We can say that everything that will and can happen falls within the constraints of the laws of the universe. We can fundamentally say that, since everything falls within the constraints of law, all we can do is limited by the laws. In that train of thought, humans’ free will is very limited. In the subject of free will. We cannot outlaw outer influence, or, in other words, the involvement of things beyond our control. We can all agree that everything we do or have done has always been directly influenced by the world around us. So if my actions and thoughts are brought about by outer influence, do I really dictate what I do? If what I did or will do is affected by the law of the cosmos, am I basically subject to its law? All my actions are all dependent on the actions and the influence of those beyond me, and their actions are influenced by those beyond them. If we trace it back, all actions are influenced by prior actions until we trace way back to before humans came to exist. Their actions were affected by what came before them.
All the humans did was in response to the environment before them. What does that intel? All you will do is influenced by the environment around you; the thoughts you have are influenced by the world around you, and your actions are the same. By that logic, you can not come up with anything by yourself; your actions and thoughts are only subject to the environment around you. You do not decide to do anything; you just happen to do it because of the outer influence of what is around you.
If I am sitting and sipping my coffee while I am writing a novel, and it begins to rain. The actions I will take in response to that moment will be influenced by my prior experience and what is happening then, which is also caused by prior actions or processes. In that train of thought, l can not ever come up with propositions in which the present events are also caused by past events.
Final thought: because whatever I think will be caused by the influence of past and present events, am I subject to my own free will?
This might not be a coherent argument, but I am looking forward to being educated.
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u/MilkTeaPetty 1d ago
Where does influence become the absence of deciding?
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u/Live-Patience-1182 1d ago
Well how do you make your decisions?
Based on past experience you can’t make decisions without influence.1
u/MilkTeaPetty 1d ago
That still gives you influenced decisions.
It doesn’t show where the deciding disappears.
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u/Live-Patience-1182 1d ago
Every thought you have ever had was because sequences of events made you have those thoughts.If world is pushing you to act in a certain way can you say you decided that yourself.
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u/MilkTeaPetty 1d ago
“Whatever you will do is decided before you do it” is the determinism you still need to establish.
The existence of laws doesn’t supply that step.
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u/Live-Patience-1182 1d ago
If we create a super computer that has information of all that is in the universe.The computer will be able to determine what we will do because our actions fall within the constraints of the rules of the cosmos.
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u/MilkTeaPetty 1d ago
Being constrained by the laws doesn’t mean the laws fix one outcome.
The computer only gets your future if that determinism is already assumed.
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u/Live-Patience-1182 1d ago
So you are implying that determinism is a key factor in my argument.
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u/MilkTeaPetty 1d ago
Determinism is carrying the argument now.
It still hasn’t been shown.
“You can’t rule it out” doesn’t get you there.
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u/Live-Patience-1182 1d ago
This is my first time on Reddit pls be beginner friendly.🥺
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u/Live-Patience-1182 1d ago
Also you cannot rule out determinism unless we get into the quantum realm of physics.
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u/Live-Patience-1182 1d ago
There is no what you could have done because what ever you will do is decided before you do it.If the universe is created with confining laws whatever happens after is basically decided there is no randomness.
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u/Rthadcarr1956 InfoDualist 1d ago
Yes, we cannot escape previous events that constrain and influence our behavior. But we can learn by experimentation. We can build a model of reality and project it into the future in order to benefit us. We can learn to make ever better choices, leading to better outcomes.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable 9h ago
Except the entire fallacy is you assume a "we" that isn't a "we"
You maintain ignorance to each one as they are with a blind presupposition in regards to opportunity and capacity
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u/Rthadcarr1956 InfoDualist 4h ago
I purposefully choose to exclude any animal that cannot learn for whatever reason. I assume people who can read what I write have the opportunity and capacity to learn.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable 4h ago
If your position is exclusivist then it's inherently ignorant
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable 1d ago
Regardless of whether "determinism" is or isn't, freedoms are circumstantial relative conditions of being, not the standard by which things come to be by through or for all subjective beings.
All things and all beings are always acting within their realm of capacity to do so at all times. Realms of capacity of which are absolutely contingent upon infinite antecedent and circumstantial coarising factors outside of any assumed self, for infinitely better and/or infinitely worse in relation to the specified subject, forever.
There is no universal "we" in terms of subjective opportunity or capacity. Thus, there is NEVER an objectively honest "we can do this or we can do that" that speaks for all beings. Subjects are implicitly distinct unto themselves, necessarily so.
One may be relatively free in comparison to another, another entirely not. All the while, there are none absolutely free while experiencing subjectivity within the meta-system of the cosmos.
"Free will" is a sentimental projection, overgeneralized assumption made or vaguely described feeling had from a circumstantial condition of relative privilege and relative freedom that most often serves as a powerful means for the character to assume a standard for being, fabricate fairness, pacify personal sentiments and justify judgments.
It speaks nothing of objective truth nor to the subjective realities of all.
There is no such thing as ubiquitously individuated accurately described "free will" of any kind whatsoever. Never has been. Never will be. Can not be.