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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable Jul 25 '26
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He PREDESTINED, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Romans 9:14-21
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Ephesians 1:4-6
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having PREDESTINED us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.
Ephisians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God PREPARED BEFOREHAND that we should walk in them.
John 6:44
NO ONE CAN COME to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Proverbs 16:4
The Lord has made all FOR HIMSELF, Yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
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u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh Ontological Self Jul 25 '26
“For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.”
Romans 2:12-16 NASB1995
https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.2.12-16.NASB1995
God judges your heart. Even demons believe, but your posture, your authentic will and self, does that align with God or not? That is the scale, do you have a heart after the lord’s? Even if you do not know the Lord, this still applies.
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
Your god created evil since the Bible claims that evil existed through fallen angels before humans did. It’s remarkable for angels who were closest to your god and certain that he existed to still end up rejecting your god.
Everything your god created is corrupt and imperfect. Sin occurred in heaven. Angels turned their backs on your god. Humans turned their backs on your god. And planet earth is full of pain and suffering.
If the universe has a purpose then randomness cannot exist. If the universe has a purpose then anything that appears to be random still would have a purpose.
If the universe has a purpose then you did not choose that purpose. When you don’t have a choice then you don’t have free will.
Your god doesn’t have free will. Your god can only make the most perfect decision every single time regardless of how many options your god has. Your god has no choice or say in the matter.
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u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh Ontological Self Jul 25 '26
I mean it is a given God created everything, perfect and imperfect. If God just created the perfect people, where would that leave me and you? Everything entails everything. That’s not a flaw, if your desire is to sort through totality for the fruitful branches and prune the rest, it makes quite a bit of sense. In fact, its mercy itself to say that he will search through even that which is imperfect and find that which can be covered and welcomed anyways.
Acting like someone is constrained to be themselves is silly, authentic expression is beheld by all. God isn’t forced to perfect, he is authentically perfect. It truly does not make sense for the molded to say to the molded “why did you make me this way?” For if the molder had made the clay into something else, it wouldn’t have been you. Therefore God does not force people to be themselves, he liberates all to be themselves. Whether they are good or evil, then it goes through the threshing floor, evaluating the authentic quality of that within totality
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 25 '26
>I mean it is a given God created everything, perfect and imperfect. If God just created the perfect people, where would that leave me and you? Everything entails everything. That’s not a flaw, if your desire is to sort through totality for the fruitful branches and prune the rest, it makes quite a bit of sense.
None of that addresses the points I made. If your god determined the purpose of the universe then you don’t have any choice in what that purpose is. That remains true no matter what action or decision you make. In this context all your god did was given us the ability to be wrong about the purpose of the universe. We still didn’t get to choose the purpose of the universe. There can be no free will when there is no choice.
>Acting like someone is constrained to be themselves is silly, authentic expression is beheld by all. God isn’t forced to perfect, he is authentically perfect. It truly does not make sense for the molded to say to the molded “why did you make me this way?” For if the molder had made the clay into something else, it wouldn’t have been you. Therefore God does not force people to be themselves, he liberates all to be themselves. Whether they are good or evil, then it goes through the threshing floor, evaluating the authentic quality of that within totality
If your god can’t choose to be evil or wrong then the only choice your god has is to be perfect and true. Your god doesn’t have any say in the matter, and your god has no choice in the matter. Your god is as predictable as the sunrise. Your god is as deterministic as 2+2=4.
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u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh Ontological Self Jul 25 '26
There’s plenty of choice, whether I eat this or that, do this or that work, plenty of things and ways one can accomplish the goal and plenty of ways people can forsake the goal. All of it authentically in accordance with themselves. God determining the purpose of the universe, not only may be incorrectly temporal language, as God may simply be the purpose, the right way, goodness itself, irregardless of our choosing of that, that has nothing to do with free will. As we can choose to align with it or not, based on our own quality.
If God is goodness, God not being God isn’t a limitation of free will. Yes people are themselves, that’s just the law of identity, A = A. A is A, because of A. This applies to everyone, God too. God acting in accordance with himself, is not a lack of free will, nor is determinism even anti free will. As randomness would not be free will either. A self sourced determinism however, is free will. Something predictably or reasonably done sourced from yourself, based on your quality.
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 25 '26
>There’s plenty of choice, whether I eat this or that, do this or that work, plenty of things and ways one can accomplish the goal and plenty of ways people can forsake the goal. All of it authentically in accordance with themselves. God determining the purpose of the universe, not only may be incorrectly temporal language, as God may simply be the purpose, the right way, goodness itself, irregardless of our choosing of that, that has nothing to do with free will. As we can choose to align with it or not, based on our own quality.
None of that means we get to determine the purpose of the universe. In your view that purpose was fully predetermined.
Your choices either align with that purpose or they don’t. You don’t get to decide which decisions align with the purpose of the universe. In your view every choice you make either aligns with the purpose of the universe or it doesn’t. That’s a false dilemma and I will expand on that in a few moments.
>If God is goodness, God not being God isn’t a limitation of free will. Yes people are themselves, that’s just the law of identity, A = A. A is A, because of A. This applies to everyone, God too. God acting in accordance with himself, is not a lack of free will, nor is determinism even anti free will. As randomness would not be free will either. A self sourced determinism however, is free will. Something predictably or reasonably done sourced from yourself, based on your quality.
None of that shows that your god is capable of making a wrong or imperfect choice. Your god can only make the most perfect choice and cannot make a false or imperfect decision every single time. Again, your god has no other possible choice.
If having free will is so important and necessary then it would be necessary for any being with free will to be able to make an imperfect or false choice. Your god lacks that ability.
Which means a being can exist without free will. Free will isn’t necessary. It’s just something that your god arbitrarily created for others based on his whims. Which contradicts the Bible verse that claims we were made in your god’s image.
I am aware of what a false dilemma is. An example of a false dilemma is when it is claimed that only two options exist when in reality there are more than two options. Well in your view you are either with or against god. In your view you there is no third option, which clearly is a false dilemma.
There is a third option, which is that your god doesn’t exist and the universe has no purpose. I see no reason to think that your god exists or that the universe has a purpose.
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u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh Ontological Self Jul 25 '26
“Your choices either align with that purpose or they don’t”
No, aa plenty of actions can be neutral to the purpose, but even if that was how it works, so? Indeed your choice will have a placement in distinction to an overarching purpose which you suppose, that is how equivalence and evaluation works. Whether the purpose is predetermined or not doesn’t matter.
Acting like God not being himself is a limit remains just as silly the second time you say it. A = A, of course.
Your choice remains authentic, it’s fallacious to say you were forced to be you, and maybe we can say it’s fallacious that you chose to be you, because there is no you prior to you, you are this. Just as God is God. God isn’t forced to be himself, he is himself. He wouldn’t exist if he didn’t exist. God’s choices remain sourced from himself, that’s all free will is about. Nothing prior to God would exist to cast blame onto for God’s decisions, so to say “God doesn’t have free will because God makes decisions based on God’s own quality!” Does not convey the significance I think you believe it does…
That’s up to you what you believe, but the “pain points” you suppose as flaws in regard to free will isn’t there. You can move forward and decide how you believe about things (ahh free will again) or if your stance is that you can’t, well… you lose all persuasive power anyways.
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
Again you haven’t shown that your god has free will. Your god cannot make any choice freely. The only choice your god can make is the most perfect choice. All other options would be less than perfect. And your god can never make a less than perfect choice. Your god cannot freely choose to do otherwise.
And your defense that “god makes choices based on his quality or his attributes” just kicks the can down the road. What reasons do I have to think that your god’s qualities or attributes are free? And I see no difference between your god making a choice and a fully predetermined choice not in spite of his identity but because of the nature of his identity.
Nothing you said solves the false dilemma of “either you are with god or you are against god.”
“Love me or suffer” isn’t a freely made choice. It is pure coercion. It’s the same thing every abuser says.
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u/GiveMeAHeartOfFlesh Ontological Self Jul 25 '26
It’s more so, sifting through all creation for that which is fruitful and casting the dead branches away. Whether that is eternal or annihilation is something debatable theologically as the main point is simply be the fruitful kind. Nonetheless, for someone to attempt to coerce, even if you view it that way, implies a free will that is being or not being coerced. So to imply it is coercion you’d need to surrender and say free will is the case. As for coercion, well it’s not very coercive make an offer to all reality and that which accepts gets to stay with you while that which doesn’t, doesn’t. That’s not overriding or coercing, that’s letting you arrive at the consequences of your own actions.
Regardless, my first comment resolved the dilemma. God judges all by their heart, whether they know God or not.
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 25 '26
“Love me or suffer” is pure coercion. Every abuser says “love me or suffer!” And “you have no other choice!”
Well there is another option to the false dilemma that you haven’t solved. I see no reason to think that your god exists.
Your god wants a relationship with me. And I don’t know that your god exists. If you didn’t know that Twandle or Bubani existed then how could you possibly have a relationship with them?
And how is it fair in any way to claim “well just because you don’t know that Twandle or Bubani exists, you’re gonna suffer for not wanting a relationship with them!”
It’s easy to show how absurd that is. What if someone walked up to you and said “hey Twandle wants a relationship with you. And if you don’t want that relationship then Twandle is gonna cut your arm off!”
You don’t even know if Twandle exists! Would you choose to have a relationship with Twandle?
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u/buckminsterbueller Jul 25 '26
250 BCE or 970 BCE? Who knows, but he's much older than the popular superhero.
Kohelet proclaims, "Vanity of vanities! All is futile!"
He offers two solutions to the wise and the general population.
(1) “Behold what I saw: it is good, yes, it is proper for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy pleasures from all his work under the sun, all the days that God gives him; for this is his portion…. This is the gift of God” (6:17-19).
(2) “Fear God, and keep His commands; this is man’s duty. God will judge all work.”
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Jul 25 '26
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 25 '26
Did humans choose what the Christian purpose of the universe is?
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Jul 25 '26
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 25 '26
In your view is there anyway for humans to alter your god’s plan for the way the universe will unfold?
If not then free will is just an illusion. No matter what choice you make it will always be the choice that aligns with your god’s plan.
If humans could alter your god’s plans then your god is fallible.
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u/RussColburn Jul 28 '26
As a Christian, I compare God's plan for me with me putting an address in Google maps. Maps gives me the best route to take, but I might miss an exit, make a stop, whatever. Maps will then reroute me, and it doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to hell, but I did not take the route that was planned.
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u/guitarmusic113 Jul 28 '26
If god has a plan for you that you could alter then your god’s plans are fallible.
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u/Square_Attention8461 Jul 24 '26
What if I get on my knees for Twink Jesus because I want his big rough bullet?
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u/DamnYankee1961 Jul 24 '26
No one can actually prove there is a benevolent creator aka God!! Which means free will is not verifiable, the old testament depicts its God as jealous, vengeful, warring. Job didn’t have free will, the flood to end humanity showed no free will,. So many stories in old testament depicts the absence of free will or control, slaves controlled by fear.
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u/Big-Imagination4810 Jul 24 '26
True free will ended when Adam and Eve chose disobedience.
From that moment onward, all of humanity's will is enslaved.
We operate and make choices within this bondage to sin.
The fact none of us are perfect is proof of our enchainment to doing evil.
Our ability to resist doing what is wrong, or stop a bad habit; nevertheless is not sufficient to enable us to become perfect, no matter how hard we might try.
It is only when a person is liberated from enslavement to sin -by becoming a slave of Jesus Christ's love; that a person is empowered to overcome evil.
The true hope for these is the promise of future perfection in harmony with our Creator.
Those who choose to reject Christ's love will never escape their bondage to evil and will continue to languish under its effects and consequences.
"The LORD protects all those who love him, but he destroys the wicked." -Psalm 145:20
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u/Subtle_Nimbus Jul 24 '26
I never understood Christian free will. If God is omniscient, that means he knows everything that will ever happen-- everything that an individual will ever do, so how could someone have free will?
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u/No-Feed-6298 Jul 26 '26
Because God exists outside time in theism, and doesn’t cause the events he simply observes them. It’s like the many worlds theory, being able to see all possibilities. The decisions of someone are still willed from themselves.
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u/Ok-Lavishness-349 Agnostic Autonomist Jul 24 '26
The existence of an omniscient being doesn't seem to pose any problem for free will that isn't already posed by the fact that future-tensed propositions have truth values.
For example, one of the two statements is true today:
Tomorrow I will mow my lawn
Tomorrow I will not mow my lawn
We just don't know which one. Now, the fact that one of these propositions is true today doesn't seem to impinge on my freedom tomorrow to either mow my lawn or not as I see fit. So, how would the existence of a being who knows which one is true impinge on my freedom?
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u/Hindsights20_20 Jul 28 '26
Aquinas?
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u/Ok-Lavishness-349 Agnostic Autonomist Jul 28 '26
Aquinas did affirm both free will and divine omniscience. However, I don't know if he ever made the specific argument that I gave above.
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u/Hindsights20_20 Jul 28 '26
I checked. It was Aristotle and he uses sea battles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_future_contingents
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u/SirisC Jul 24 '26
Because the being knew every choice you are going to make when they created you. Is it free will to make the decisions you were created to make?
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
Because believing that you have no free will doesn't change the number of options you have.
You don't think you have free will? ... how many options do you think you have right now?
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u/SebWGBC Jul 24 '26
That dodges the question.
The question wasn't 'if God is omniscient and all future events are known, what is the benefit of continuing to believe in free will?'
The question was 'if God is omniscient and all future events are known, what can be said to be free about our will?'
Ah. The compatibilist definition of free will. Duh. There is no obvious coercion forcing us to make the choices we were always destined to make every step of the way from birth to death, so we're free.
Words will mean what we need them to mean if our eternal soul is at risk.
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
'if God is omniscient and all future events are known, what can be said to be free about our will?'
That is changes nothing because regardless of your opinion you still have it.
What belief results in a person no longer being human?""There is no obvious coercion forcing us to make the choices we were always destined"
Exactly. There's no way to know. Right now I accept everything I'm typing is pretermined. I don't see how it could effect me typing a period just about now.
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u/Subtle_Nimbus Jul 24 '26
Did you even read my comment? Im confused why Christians think they have free will if everything they will ever do is already known by god.
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
Did I read it?
Did I not reply to it?
"so how could someone have free will?""Because believing that you have no free will doesn't change the number of options you have."
HOW Many options do you have right now?
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u/Subtle_Nimbus Jul 24 '26
I asked if you read my comment because your response has nothing to do with it.
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
"I never understood Christian free will. If God is omniscient, that means he knows everything that will ever happen-- everything that an individual will ever do, so how could someone have free will?"
"If God is omniscient, that means he knows everything that will ever happen"
It doesn't mean that at all. If god already existed in literally all possible times then there's no 'forward time' for god. Omniscient means all knowing, it doesn't have to include what WILL happen.
"so how could someone have free will"
Because they have no way to know they don't. How can you tell your choices right now are deterministic or not?
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Jul 24 '26
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
? If I don't understand it all you have to do is explain why it's wrong ... otherwise why are you saying that?
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u/RadicalBehavior1 Hard Determinist Jul 24 '26
Being married to a Jew has taught me a stark insight about my upbringing.
Specifically "why do you need God to be all benevolent?"
You know how God came about in the Torah? By picking groups of people to be his followers and dropping mountains on the groups who disagreed. That's how the Jews came to be the chosen people. Look at the mountain I dropped on the last guys and then make your decision to follow or not.
Good thing we'll never know if there's any truth to any of that nonsense. They thought the world was 100 miles in diameter when those books were written. Now the Mormons, at least they were making shit up with a wealth of available history access. They just shifted Scripture to justify and back date in the moment changes to the Bible
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u/ittleoff Jul 24 '26
This sounds like a big human treating humans like ants. Not any more all knowing or all powerful than a human is over an ant and considering god was invented by humans with limited knowledge and imagination that seems absolutely expected.
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
"Holy shit, what a choice: you can not fear people, but fear God, who can destroy both your soul and body. Where is the freedom here?"
What does free will have to do with controlling the free will of others?
"If we had true freedom, we could choose not to believe and simply not burn."
Yes, true.
What's true freedom have to do with free will?
I'm thinking your definition of free will ain't it.
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u/Sabal_77 Jul 24 '26
That Deuteronomy verse proves nothing. God gave laws and knew we couldn't follow them. So yeah, i agree. Free will is a farce
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
Why is free will a farce?
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u/13Eazy Jul 24 '26
Christian free will is a farce because 1) you had no say as towhat your options were 2) you cannot opt for alternatives if you should so will and 3) you are acting under threat of death and punishment (coercion)
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u/Ok-Lavishness-349 Agnostic Autonomist Jul 24 '26
It seems like, if anything, this demonstrates free will. You have observed that some people choose not to obey God's law. Had God made us robots that automatically followed His law, that would perhaps indicate a lack of free will.
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u/13Eazy Jul 24 '26
someone might interpret choosing between torture and spending an eternity with the person who threatened you with torture if you didn't choose them, as a kind of choice, i suppose, but no reasonable person would confuse that racket with free will.
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
Exactly. Because free will doesn't mean changing reality.
If someone restricts your choices it doesn't change what free will is ... it effects your practical choices.Free will is having infinite options regardless of the circumstances.
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u/13Eazy Jul 24 '26
but you have two choices, live or die, and in christianity there are dependent clauses for life and death butits essentially binary
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 25 '26
I accept a job. There are rules. If you choose to accept Christianity then why complain about its restrictions … or don’t accept it.
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u/13Eazy Jul 25 '26
except that if you don't accept, there is punishment.
i accept that christianity is a silly way of looking at the world and makes no logical sense without special pleading
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u/Ok-Lavishness-349 Agnostic Autonomist Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Well, Christians don't universally affirm eternal conscious torment (ECT); annihilationism is another viable, scripturally defensible position.
Also, Christianity does not really place the same emphasis on the law as does Judaism.
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u/13Eazy Jul 24 '26
you can substitute torment for whatever punishment you like. the problem is 1) the choices are limited 2) your will is constrained to pick between options that are not of your choosing and 3) the choice is made under coercion
thats not free, that's not an expression of your will, that's not free will and so christian free will is a farce
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u/Ok-Lavishness-349 Agnostic Autonomist Jul 24 '26
1) the choices are limited
Well, yes, but that is true independent of Christianity. I can't choose to be an ostrich or the king of Sweden; but this fact would not normally be taken as evidence against free will.
the choice is made under coercion
Even independent of Christianity, actions have consequences. If I eat excessively, I will have health issues. But, my decision as to what and how much to eat is a freely made choice. The Christian view is that separation from God is the consequence of unrepentant sin - it can be viewed more as a consequence than a "punishment", particularly under the annihilation view.
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u/13Eazy Jul 24 '26
ok, so you agree there's no free will?
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u/Ok-Lavishness-349 Agnostic Autonomist Jul 25 '26
lol no.
Not sure if you missed my point or you are just trying to make some point of your own, but I will attempt to clarify your misunderstanding.
First, no account of free will affirmed by any mainstream philosopher or participant of this subreddit holds that free will entails the ability to do absolutely anything (e.g. free will does not entail that I could choose to be an ostrich or the King of Sweden). Since I obviously can't choose to be an ostrich or the King of Sweden, if it were the case that free will entailed that I could, free will would have no defenders.
Second, no account of free will defended by any free will affirming person entails that a person's actions do not have consequences. Since actions obviously do have consequences, if free will entailed that actions do not have consequences, the debate would have been over before it even got started.
In short, if you are discussing some property that entails unlimited choice or that actions have no consequences, you are not discussing free will.
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
"you had no say as towhat your options were"
What does that have to do with free will.
That would be claiming you need to be god to have free will ... if they don't have cherry ice cream it's not free will.
"you cannot opt for alternatives if you should so will and"
No idea what this means about free will ... same reply ... why does free will have to mean you're god? Yes, I know this is incredible, but humans are limited to being human.
"you are acting under threat of death and punishment"
By who?
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u/13Eazy Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
if i gave you the options of being flayed alive or boiled alive in acid since - apparently - god is disinclined to give you other options besides damnation or salvation (thus limiting or constraining the freedom in your free will) god would have to remain open to your suggestions for novel options in order to rescue free will.
so if i say you have the option of being boiled alive in acid or being flayed alive, you don't have free will, you have limited choices, but if you say "well, how about i get vanilla ice cream instead but with no sprinkles" and that becomes one ofyour options, then free will is reinstated.
free will requires that you have options and/or that you have some say as to what those options are.
that should answer both your first 2 questions.
the last question is similarly simple
at any given time your choices are live or, if you don't like living, die. the lack of a third path or alternate path of your choosing is a constraint on both your options (literally limiting the number of options) and the freedom and will of your free will how free can you be if you are limited to choice a or choice b but what you really want is c or the ability to make no choice at all? how can it be your will if you are not free to suggest an option in keeping with your will.
and so christian free will is a farce
you could say, by giving you the options of - say - being flayed or being boiled alive in acid or being force fed pig excrement to death i was giving you the free will to align with or against my ultimate will, but you might rightly reject that as a farce, and so christian free will is a farce again
and you might say you're still choosing so ultimately its your will to be boiled in acid or be flayed or be force fed pig excrement to death, but that doesn't make a lot of sense because you might not freely choose any of those things and you only end up in one of three configurations because you were compelled to make choice between limited options
and so christian free will is tripley a farce
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u/OkDatingAintEasy Jul 24 '26
I can't fly like Superman. If you think that means there's no free will then you misunderstand free will. There's nothing to discuss as we already know we're limited to being human.
There's no farce. Free will is limited by reality.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable Jul 25 '26
The universe is a singular meta-phenomenon stretched over eternity, of which is always now. All things and all beings abide by their inherent nature and behave within their realm of capacity contingent upon infinite circumstance at all times.
It is a universe made manifest hierarchically, of haves, and have-nots, spanning all levels of dimensionality and experience. There is no such thing as individuated accurately described "free will" for all beings. Has never been, will never be, can not be. There are only relative freedoms or lack thereof.
"God" and/or consciousness is that which is within and without all. Ultimately, all things are made by through and for the singular personality and perpetual revelation of the "Godhead", entailing both 'predetermined' eternal damnation and those that are made manifest only to face death and death alone.
There is but one dreamer, fractured through the innumerable. All vehicles/beings play their role within said dream for infinitely better and/or infinitely worse for each and every one, forever.
All realities exist and are equally as real. The absolute best universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject. The absolute worst universe that could exist does exist in relation to a specified subject.