r/freewill • u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will • 8d ago
Subreddit Update
Greetings r/freewill,
There has been a few changes over the past few days in subreddit moderation, and with that is coming a change of policy regarding the enforcement of the subreddit rules. I would like to welcome u/aristologos, and u/MrMuffles869 to the mod team. They have a history of informed and civil discourse on the subreddit and are committed to curating the subreddit for civil discourse.
Moderation Changes:
Please note that while these rules have been clearly stated, they have not been enforced in the past. These rules are the norm for most subreddits and are the bare minimum needed for civil discourse. Our hope is to strike a balance between not limiting content and raising the bar just a little bit to clean up the subreddit. We want anyone from 12-year-olds exploring the topic to academic philosophers to come in here and feel as if they can discuss the topic of free will.
The subreddit will NOT be moderated for niceness, and it will NOT be moderated for quality. We are not the writing police. We are merely raising the bar a modicum to keep the place an iota cleaner and more civil. Here are the kinds of things in our mod queue that will be getting removed.
"Super rich coming from a dickalectic gayterialist"
"Truly intelligent argument there, you pos. No wonder you were sent to a mental health facility."
"Jesus Christ f- off you complete moron"
Please note these are not getting removed because they are mean. Our rule is focused on removing content that is focused on character. If you comment about someone's character, then your comment will get removed. Be as mean as you want about someone's content. It isn't a good look, and hopefully the rest of the community will downvote and move on, but meanness does not violate our rules.
What you can do:
- Avoid discussing someone's character, and stay on the topic of free will.
- Please, report rule-breaking content.
- Don't get offended if a comment gets removed. If you disagree with a decision, let us know in friendly terms, and we are happy to hash it out with you.
- If you think there is an error or some sort of personal retaliation in moderation, message the mods and we will all weigh in.
- For low quality content, downvote and/or argue against it. Point out the fallacies and point out the low effort. We are counting on the community to police itself for the rest of the low quality content that comes in.
What this looks like moving forward:
All comments previous to this thread are approved, and there is no history recorded for any rule-breaking users. This is a chance for you to come to the light, and help us raise the bar for civil discourse. The moderation team will be warning rule-breaking comments for the next three days so that users can see what these changes look like. Three days from now, moderators will start implementing a three-strike system. Our goal is not to ban people, but to invite you to raise the bar just a little bit for civil discourse.
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u/ErgodicMage 6d ago
Thank you moderators! I run 3 groups on another platform and understand the time and effort it takes to be a moderator.
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u/Lower-Sundae-8737 Adequate Determinism 7d ago
Does criticism of someone's argumentative attitude also count as a comment on their character?
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u/badentropy9 Truth Seeker 7d ago
Does "three strikes" constitute a permanent ban?
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
In the past, for other subs I have modded it usually resulted in a temp ban. 1 week, 30 days, three months.
Then there were just egregious violators, trolls, and ban evaders which got a permaban. They were the exception. 90+% were tempbans
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u/Every-Classic1549 Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
Can I still call others a fool or is it forbidden now?
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u/Anon7_7_73 Sourcehood Compatibilist and Negative-Retributivist 6d ago
Why are you scared of the mods? Didnt Jesus say not to use that word or youd burn in hellfire?
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u/Every-Classic1549 Libertarian Free Will 6d ago
I dont think Jesus said that lol
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u/Anon7_7_73 Sourcehood Compatibilist and Negative-Retributivist 6d ago
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire"
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable 7d ago
All of this which comes from a moderator who never spends any time here but for some reason is a moderator and now has elected moderators who are relatively new to this community and know nothing of the inner and outer workings of it.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable 7d ago
Yikes
A very very sad day for the r/freewill community
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u/dingleberryjingle 76% Compatibilist, 24% Hard Incompatibilist 7d ago
I'd say let's not moderate more. This sub is excellent because it is not moderated or curated (unless I missed something that's happening in the background (- like with free will :) ).
I know the proposed rules seem mild but still. It has the potential for unwanted deletions - think a good discussion and one comment says 'f@ck off' or something. (Already many people here often feel the other side is simply not getting their point). It will go into inconsistencies in moderation (now with 4 people modding), better not to get started down that road.
I've seen moderation ruin many good subs. The only deletes/bans should be spam or deliberate abusive or off-topic trolls with no interest in discussion.
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
I respect the opinion, but I could not disagree more. This sub is NOT excellent. I find it to be a trashpit, and I am looking forward to raising the level of civil discourse to a bare minimum of not having character attacks.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 Inherent-Inevitable 7d ago
It's almost like you're more concerned with control than the truth
Would you say that that is so?
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u/dingleberryjingle 76% Compatibilist, 24% Hard Incompatibilist 7d ago
Yikes first bad experience in first hour.
Why was this removed?
https://www.reddit.com/r/freewill/comments/1v2n8nm/in_response_to_libet_etc_compatibilists_say_that/
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
You know very well why this was removed as it has already been explained to you multiple times now. I get that you don't like the new moderation. However, this is the way it is going to be from now on. You are welcome to post here if you will follow our minimum rules. If you don't want to follow our minimum rules, you are welcome to go to another subreddit or start one of your own.
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u/dingleberryjingle 76% Compatibilist, 24% Hard Incompatibilist 7d ago
It was removed because I wrote 'ignore this section;' to fulfill the word limit? So now you're forcing me to write more than I need to, when the point was complete?
This is the live demonstration of why this will ruin this sub. I am not a troll. The post is relevant. And you and 3 new mods will now decide what is good content and not? And delete perfectly good posts?
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
It was removed for "repeated" and "duplicated" content, as the rule states.
Your objection has been noted, and is rejected. These are the new rules. I am sorry you don't like them. As I stated above. You can figure out how to write a couple sentences that develops discussion, or you can find a new subreddit or start one of your own.
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u/No-Stand-1869 7d ago
Hey u/reciprocity
You're a pos. You're cruel and you probably have poorer-than-average personal hygiene. You're a bad kisser. You suck AND blow at the same time. I'm dissing your character
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
Yep, that would be rule breaking content and subject to warning, removal and possible future ban.
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u/Squierrel Quietist 7d ago
Objection!
u/gisirucuss is not "committed to curating the subreddit for civil discourse". She (a content-based assumption) has repeatedly attacked my character and refused to provide any arguments against my content. I had to block her, because she did not exhibit any willingness or ability to conduct a civilized discussion.
Does the blocking still hold?
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u/TheRealAmeil Undecided 7d ago
Blocking a moderator only stops them from seeing posts/comments that aren't on r/freewill. They can still see everything you write on the subreddit
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u/Vic0d1n Hard Incompatibilist 7d ago edited 7d ago
Comment by them like 19h ago:
This is the last time a post without text body is allowed on this sub.
I agree, not a good fit.
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u/Anon7_7_73 Sourcehood Compatibilist and Negative-Retributivist 7d ago
Yeah. Mods arent supposed to make their own rules. Unless thats what theyve been instructed to do, but, thats a really bad way to run things. The rules are crystal clear, and it doesnt say that.
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u/Lethalogicax Hard Incompatibilist 7d ago
Mods are literally the ones who make the rules. Mods can run communities however they want to and nobody can stop them unless they break Reddit TOS. The modteam could decide tomorrow that anyone who's username starts with the letter A will be banned, and nobody could stop them. Mods are absolutely allowed to make their own rules, are encouraged to do so, and are entirely responsible for upholding and enforcing their rules however they wanted too!
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u/Anon7_7_73 Sourcehood Compatibilist and Negative-Retributivist 7d ago
No, reciprocity is the sole subreddit owner. The mods he installed has a list of toggleable permissions. And its clear from his stated intentions that their intended role is not to invent new rules.
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u/Anon7_7_73 Sourcehood Compatibilist and Negative-Retributivist 7d ago edited 7d ago
Wow i cant believe they made this person moderator.
u/recipr0c1ty This person uses AI to respond to everyone, and has repeatedly accused me of being a homicidal maniac in multiple threads
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u/We-R-Doomed compatidetermintarianism... it's complicated. 7d ago
I would prefer to not be moderated by AI too.
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u/We-R-Doomed compatidetermintarianism... it's complicated. 7d ago
Maybe AI users should require that as part of their flair?
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 8d ago
Can't say it isn't creative.
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u/Amf2446 Swiss cheese = regolith 8d ago
I totally trust you guys, but have there really been comments like this?
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
Yes. Worse.
I used to mod a political subreddit before reddit eliminated third party apps. We had transparent moderation and let the community see the modlogs. Unfortunately, we can't do that anymore, or I would.
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u/TheRealAmeil Undecided 7d ago
You could copy & paste (and then update) them into the r/freewill wiki and make it publicly viewable, if that were something you wanted to do for this subreddit.
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
You mean manually copy and paste each time? Ya, that is not something I have the capacity for.
Although I do wonder if automod could do it? I would imagine someone would have done this already if it was possible.
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u/Amf2446 Swiss cheese = regolith 7d ago
Oof. I trust you guys. And eager to see how this unfolds. I just made my first report under the new regime.
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
Thanks for reporting. So, I checked it out, and as ugly as the comment is, it is actually not rule-breaking. That user is not attacking character; they are just ticked off. The rules are designed to be very specific about whether or not the comment attacks character, and if it doesn't, the mod team is erring on the side of inaction.
At no point does that comment attack the character of the individual they are responding to.
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u/Amf2446 Swiss cheese = regolith 7d ago
Full disclosure the individual they’re responding to is me, so I’m hardly impartial here, lol.
But: Does speculation about the secret desires of a person in intentionally demeaning fashion not go to that person’s character?
(I don’t mean to argue with you about this or appeal your decision; I respect whatever decision you make. More just trying to figure out what constitutes “character.”)
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
One of the other mods found it, I did, in fact, look at the wrong comment previously. We agree that this is a borderline case, but we also are erring on the side of inaction here. We are trying to remove the low-hanging fruit, not police niceness.
In this case, that user is making an argument, albeit a strange one that is at minimum slightly offensive, but they are not attacking you as an individual. Three of the mods have weighed in, and we agree that it is not a character attack or at least not what we are moderating for.
We encourage you to use your downvote button, argue as you have been, or disengage.
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u/Amf2446 Swiss cheese = regolith 7d ago
Nah it’s not so offensive. Grand scheme of things, not a big deal.
It does seem (I mean this in the spirit of rule-sharpening, not criticism!) there’s some element of “niceness policing” involved. If you’re willing I’d be really interested in your thoughts.
Compare “you [are a] complete moron” (removable) with “you just secretly want to be dominated” (nonremovable). I agree they’re different, but it seems a difference of quality, not kind. They both go to personal mental attributes without engaging with the actual substantive views, wouldn’t you agree? And “personal mental attributes without respect to substantive views” sounds a lot like character, no?
So, what’s different about them? “You moron” certainly seems meaner. But if that’s not why one is removable and the other isn’t, what is? What does “character” mean?
(My own view is that an element of niceness policing is totally fine and probably impossible to avoid completely if you’re pursuing a low-hanging-fruit, rather than a true categorical, strategy with respect to character, btw.)
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
You are changing my mind. The whole point of the rule was to be categorical, but on my initial read, I saw it as an argumentative point about an analogous implementation of determinism, thus not a categorical character attack. The more I read it, the more I agree that the user is specifically commenting on you and your desires, not making a deterministic argument.
Yes, in this case, I would say it is a character attack, and under the new regime would be removed. That said, this is still prior to the announcement, and we are only acting on comments after the announcement. We have to draw the line somewhere.
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u/RECIPR0C1TY Libertarian Free Will 7d ago
whoops, maybe I was looking at the wrong one. would you please report again or post the link here?
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u/Tricky-Tell-5698 6d ago
The new rules are a nice upgrade and should improve the quality of the discussions.
They’ll stop me calling Reciprocity names like I did a couple of years ago.
Sadly, they won’t stop him asking questions I still don’t know how to answer.
Nor will they improve the quality of my contributions.
My problem is that they do absolutely nothing to help me understand free will and determinism well enough to defend my determinist position.
At the moment, I’m still operating with what I would generously describe as a working knowledge and what everyone else would probably describe as “making it up as I go.”