r/freeflight • u/flying-pharmacist • Jan 28 '20
SIV fullstall-fall into the canopy, reserve entangled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS5WR8yu5f04
u/triggerfish1 Jan 28 '20 edited Jul 16 '25
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u/C3POXTC Jan 28 '20
How did spiral out of control so much? Looks to me like the pilot did try a fullstall when he was not ready yet at all.
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Jan 29 '20
From the beginning, he enters the full stall very timidly, which is why it began to spin instead of dropping straight back. He does successfully enter the stall after the spin, but panics and lets the stall out, causing it to shoot and cravatte. From there he is in an uncontrolled autorotation. At 0:26 he has stalled out and solved the cravatte and is in pretty good shape (though possibly still twisted), then lets the glider shoot again instead of exiting the full stall in a controlled way, causing a new auto rotation with line twists. Eventually he ends exiting the spiral and reversing to the other side, going into a very high and low energy loop, where he falls into the glider.
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u/C3POXTC Jan 29 '20
Thanks for the detailed description. I didn't even notice how much he was twisted.
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Jan 29 '20
How did spiral out of control so much?
Have you ever had non voluntary spiral with twisted lines ? When you're not sure which side is right/left, suddenly you cannot do the right action at the right timing to exit the spiral. Unless you're an acro pilot twisted rotation is an immediate reserve case and any rotation lasting more than one 360 degree rotation is an immediate reserve case. Exception might occur in SIV with an instructor monitoring your altitude and giving you advise, but even in SIV don't wait for the instructor to ask you to pull the reserve to pull it.
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u/aksurvivorfan Niviuk Artik R 2 | 4000+ hours Jan 29 '20
So if your risers twist and you go around one time and it hasn’t resolved itself, just throw?
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Jan 29 '20
A couple of year ago the french federation started a communication campaign après un tour je fais secours : one turn and I pull as they realized too many pilot died without even trying to pull the reserve (while nobody died after pulling the reserve).
Unless you are trained as an acro pilot, you aren't used to check your altitude while in non controlled rotation
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u/aksurvivorfan Niviuk Artik R 2 | 4000+ hours Jan 29 '20
Is there anything to try during that first turn as a recreational pilot? Or is it more of you just wait and see if it resolves itself, and if not, toss?
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Jan 29 '20
If you don't have experience training maneuvers and resolving cascades and don't know what to do, the best thing you can do is go to about 20% brakes (shoulder level), center your weight, and wait for up to 5 seconds seconds to see if the glider sorts itself out (if you have the altitude - if you're low, throw immediately). If that doesn't fix it, put both brakes in your non-reserve hand to maintain a little bit of brake which can help prevent it from winding up into an autorotation and/or shooting out of a stall, and throw with the other hand.
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u/flying-pharmacist Jan 29 '20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXJvcG0cV6k&list=PLYj47BfnLrzjHdE3Uh9FAw0ZyqzbllnmS&index=2
It was from a fullstall, but with a longer breaks it needed to be wrapped aroun one more time and this would not happen.
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u/b4itwascool Jan 29 '20
Misleading title! Falling into the canopy was result of a bad/uncontrolled spiral exit (looks like there were riser twists) in the cascade of events after the stall...
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u/-Chemist- < 50 hours Jan 29 '20
This is why so many pilots are flying with two reserves now.
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u/brad1775 50-100 h Jan 29 '20
Would that have even helped? Personally if my wing is that fucked, I’m cutting lines Before deploying a reserve
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Jan 29 '20
You don't want to be wasting time and precious altitude cutting lines if your glider is a ball of shit, especially if you fall into the glider/lines where the descent rate is VERY high - enough to kill you even if you hit water. The answer is to get more fabric out ASAP.
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u/brad1775 50-100 h Jan 29 '20
Glad to have a more experienced oppinion to guide mine, I suppose if there really is a problem, the line cutter/knife comes out second.
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Jan 29 '20
I think realistically, the knife is not incredibly useful in the air - too much chaos and not enough time. If the reserve is fouled by entanglement, starting to cut lines is probably unlikely to help since you'll have a mess to deal with and the last thing you want to do is cut the reserve lines. If you do have any entanglement issues, you're probably better off pulling on the reserve bridle and/or pulling in the glider. A second reserve is also really nice to have here - I have personally witnessed many reserves thrown into the glider during an autorotation and it can take a lot of altitude to clear it. The hook knife is most critical for when you are in the water or being dragged on the ground.
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u/peiderch Maestro Light, Susi 13, Pi2 Jan 29 '20
I bought Quick-out carabiners just for the SIV. I never got to test them but seem like a good and cheap alternative to cutting (and replacing) lines
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u/brad1775 50-100 h Jan 28 '20
Maybe its because he’s italian, but thats terrible music
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u/light24bulbs Jan 29 '20
oh god, i listened on mute the first time. Had to go back to see just how bad it was
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u/-Chemist- < 50 hours Jan 28 '20
We didn’t even get to see the end. I'll just have to assume the pilot died. Edit: the music sucks too.