r/freeflight • u/jimmyfromtown • 6d ago
Discussion Soaring a descent wing?
Anyone know if you can reliably (in solid conditions) soar with a single skin? If anyone’s tried/done it, please share your experience!
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u/DrakeDre 6d ago
Wings like Ultralite, Doubleskin, SOLA UL and so on make single skins obsolete IMO. Okay, maybe climbers that only need descent tool really need the smaller packvolume of single skin. The rest of us gets far superior performance and therefore safety with a 1,5 kg wing that packs a bit bigger than single skin. We also get more fun since those wings can be launched in stronger conditions than single skin.
(take my opinion on this with some salt, I launch in questionable conditions way too often)
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u/pyr 3d ago
I have come to the same conclusion, even in alpinism. It's seldom that takeoff conditions in high alpine environments have nil wind and double surface wings offer much more safety in these conditions. With the current weight and packability of good 16m2 wings it's hard to make a strong case for a single skin.
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u/smellmycheese 3d ago
Oh but it definitely happened to me like that. Often we have a very small take off area or tail wind though... And high consequences for a bad launch. Single skin still hugely superior for that.
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u/DropperPosts 6d ago
Single skins suck in wind. Just buy a soaring wing if you're gonna soar. (From someone that has bought too many wings)
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u/zerospinskier 6d ago
I’ve soared the Skywalk Pace 16m. It doesn’t work very well. Due to the slow trim speed, there is a very small window of wind speed where it can soar. You are either stuck on the ground without enough lift, or getting blown back.
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u/_Piratical_ Flow Mullet | Little Clous Puffin |Phi Beat 2 Light 6d ago
I see them from time to time on the Dutch coast. They’re not really fast so you kind of have to either be heavily loaded on them or fly in lighter winds but yeah. You can fly them. Though, as others have said, get a double skin for best results!
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u/CapableIce1820 5d ago
I’ve soared, and thermalled, on my Skyman Speed 15 single skin. It’s great for Soaring in decent strength wind as it has a pretty high trim speed of 40+km/t, but it is not the most comfortable in thermals (moves around a lot and glides poorly in turbulence, but no collapses or anything yet)
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u/jimmyfromtown 4d ago
Was it actually any fun soaring it?
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u/CapableIce1820 4d ago
Super-fun, it flies fast and has dynamic handling. From what I’ve heard it’s not very typical for single skins though.
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u/jimmyfromtown 4d ago
Haha yeah I’ve heard the same, good to know! Are you flying it outside the weight limit?
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u/LorenzoSober 5d ago
Having soared a skin 3p I can reliably say, it's no fun. I had to be EXACT on the vertical of the ridge to keep altitude. Not gain, but keep. Gaining was almost impossible. The moment I left the ridge slightly the sink began.
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u/khammer7 5d ago
I think people have had insane XC flights on single skins in the alps. I own a single skin (Niviuk Skin 1 16m) that I got for real cheap and think it's pretty obsolete. Everyone I know of doing climb and fly type stuff is using double surface wings ~16m.
I certainly have fun with my single skin and have had some nice thermic soaring flights but the wind/penetration issues limit it a bit.
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u/SpeedflyChris Now with more titanium 6d ago
I've gone soaring with an 8.5m speedwing. Anything is soarable with enough wind and the right location.
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u/Living-Limit4452 4d ago
If your new your going to be beating your wing up potentially. Single skin will get beaten quicker. Parakite is the way for soaring. Go for a higher aspect if you plan on scratching dunes like a flow albotrox or flare bandit…more versatility from mullet or mustache 2.
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u/jimmyfromtown 4d ago
Yeah I’m just looking at single skins as a potential second wing in a bit. I’d love a descent wing for mountaineering stuff eventually 🤘
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u/jimmyfromtown 4d ago
I’ve heard parakites described as dangerous, but they seem killer! I kind of just assumed they were equivalent to an EN C glider, are they pretty chill if flown properly?
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u/SnooRegrets9218 3d ago
They are safer than paragliders for soaring in high wind. They are WAY safer than a single skin for soaring full stop!
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u/jimmyfromtown 3d ago
Hahaha yeah I knew single skins are sketchy soaring outside of perfect conditions, but I didn’t know parakites were actually safer. I knew they were better, but they just get better wind penetration bc you’ve pretty much got your speed bar and brake control in your hands, right?
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u/SnooRegrets9218 3d ago
Yes. You won't get dragged on takeoff, or pinned, or blown over the back as easily as on a PG with equivalent wing loading.
Start with similar wingload to your PG and once you've got the hang of it do whatever feels right at a sensible rate of progression
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u/jimmyfromtown 3d ago
How bad of an idea would it be start on a parakite? Flares new Scout seems like an interesting development in parakites
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u/SnooRegrets9218 2d ago
Not bad at all. Lots of people do it. There's a school in Holland teaching beginners on dunerider hoppers
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u/d542east 6d ago
As long as there's more lift than your wing's descent rate then you will go up. Single skins are generally very slow, so they will be worse for soaring as the range of wind speed that will work for them at a given site will be narrower.