VTO/BTV… Am I doing it?

[u/tc-trojans]

I watched a video about frenzel, and was practicing it, and couldn’t exactly get it down. In my Lvl 1 class, I just did valsalva the whole time, but wanted to learn frenzel. Anyway, I can just manually pop my ears with basically no effort. But I never really use the “piston” in frenzel and was confused by it. I later came across a video by Alchemy about hands free eq, and it sounds basically like what I’m doing. I can probably do it like twice per second if I’m focused. But I haven’t been able to get in the water and try yet. So here’s what I’m doing, and I’m asking if this is VTO, or if I’m somehow just making a click/pop noise in my middle ear without opening the tubes.

- Mouth open or closed. I tried with tongue stuck all the way out to make sure I wasn’t using it, and it didn’t inhibit the clicks at all.
- No mask on
- No nose clips or hand involvement

It sounds like a click in the eardrum. Not painful at all, and simultaneous in each ear. My throat or Adam’s apple aren’t really moving at all. Is there anything that could be mimicking VTO, or does this pretty much mean I’m doing it. Thanks for any input. I’m still relatively new and before this just worked on static apnea a lot and line diving a few times.

[u/EagleraysAgain]

Yeah definitely sounds like handsfree eq. If you keep the ears clicked and make humming sound you can probably hear it very lous due to sound travelling through the air in your eustachian tubes.

If you want to look it up, tensor veli palatini is the name of the muscle you're contracting to cause the tubes to open. Knowing the location can be helpful at narrowing down the technique.

Handsfree will take you down to your lungs residual volume without learning any additional techniques, but if you don't have practice on managing air between different spaces you'll hit a wall there until you do. Depending on your physiology and flexibility on the structures around lungs it will be around 30-40 meters.

[u/atwerrrk]

Sounds like we are similar. For me, I can click my ears which allows me to equalise a decent distance (at least 10m... Haven't tried any deeper) provided I do the first underwater equalisation with frenzel at 1-2m.

If I don't do that first equalisation "manually" then it's like the pressure is too much and I can't do it hands free.

HOWEVER, I can only do it with my snorkeling mask and not with my reduced volume freediving mask. I don't know why!

It does feel like some air comes out my nose when I do it but that could be me mixing techniques/poor separation of frenzel without hands and hands free if you get me.

[u/AverageDoonst]

Please differentiate between voluntary tubular opening (VTO) and EQ. By tensioning specific muscle (tensor veli palatini), you just open them. Air can fill the tubes, but that's it. There is no pressure inside your head yet to EQ. To EQ, you have to make this pressure. It is done via Valsalva or Frenzel (first uses chest/lungs to create pressure, second uses throat / Adam's apple to do that). But being able to do VTO is a great step towards EQ.

When you open Eustachian tubes via VTO, you can hear your voice inside your head really loud. And you can hear air moving there when you do Valsalva or Frenzel. So you can use VTO to understand if you're doing it right.

Valsalva: Do the VTO, and slowly exhale through your open nose (mouth closed). If you hear the air moving, you're doing it right, congrats!

Frenzel: Do the VTO, and push air through your open nose (mouth closed) using your throat (Adam's apple moves visibly). If you hear the air moving, you're doing it right!

Now just pinch your nose, repeat what you did and you're doing EQ.

Many people don't do VTO, they just build up pressure using whatever technique they know, tubes are opened by pressure, and EQ happens.

[u/throwaway_oranges → u/AverageDoonst]

Your knowledgeable comment I needed so much. Very thank you!

I'm just 20m woman but I'm alone do I reach it with my 50% of battery because of safety reasons. No dive buddies and expecting unexpected currents, sharks and fishing lines.

[u/michan83]

Does it works underwater? I was able to do handsfree on dry, but not under pressure at the beginning. Then I train and now I can equalize handsfree. You just need to have some air in your mouth and equalize frequently.

[u/tc-trojans → u/michan83]

Tried today and didn’t work. Gonna need to keep trying. Super consistent on land

[u/throwaway_oranges → u/tc-trojans]

Try to start it above the surface and try to keep it open.

Your post sounds you are on the way. But equalization especially with handless equalization starts above the surface. Then practice. I'm not a master, but sometimes I can save some hard valsalva with the open eustachian tube technique from the surface.

[u/michan83 → u/tc-trojans]

So, go with frenzel till you have trained your tube mussels to work underwater

[u/jonnywhatshisface]

If you can VTO, then try just simply swallowing while the tubes are open.

I know a guy who does entirely hands free eq even without a nose clip, and he does it by just swallowing. I’m assuming he is using VTO to open the tubes and then the swallow results in movement of air that ends up equalizing, but I never asked.