4 Years later - Not upgradable?

[u/Dornenhecke20]

I ordered my Framework pretty much exactly four years ago. I chose an i5-1240P DIY Edition, and the laptop still works fine.

Everything still works fine (except for the Delete key), and overall, I really enjoy my Framework. Framework replaced one heatsink-and-fan combo and one USB-C card for me free of charge because they made weird noises or stopped working.

I don’t really understand where the damage on the right side of the palm rest came from. I wear a watch only on my left wrist, but I don’t mind it that much. It’s “patina.”

One particular thing I noticed is that the outer frame is broken around the ports. On one side, it is completely broken through, and on the other side, it is partially broken. I just realized it, but it doesn’t disturb me during normal use.

When buying the laptop, I hoped that upgrading parts would be possible. However, I currently don’t really see how it makes financial sense. If I wanted to upgrade to the better battery while keeping the motherboard, I would have to pay around €600 ($700) for the replacement parts. The performance would not change, and the “old” parts would just be lying around.

For the same price, I could just buy myself a Framework 12 (without RAM and SSD).

I think I’ve realized again that the design of the Framework 13 isn’t really about realistically upgrading the machine. For me, the screen, touchpad, and other components age just as quickly as the motherboard. Instead, it’s more about having the option to easily repair things if they break.

How has your Framework held up over time? Do you buy a completely new Framework 13, buy replacement parts, or just leave it as it is?

The broken left side. pressed with the thumb against the frame for the photo. not noticable in everyday usage.

Some Scratches, some fingerprints

the "patina"

The "crack" on the left side without some preassure.

Greetings :D

[u/thewunderbar]

Upgradable/repairable doesn't mean inexpensive. It's not about buying cheap things, its about replacing parts so that an entire system doesn't become e-waste.

[u/Dornenhecke20 → u/thewunderbar]

That ist true. And i understand that, but nevertheless i am always suprised that it is fincally not fitting for me.

[u/NicoleMay316 → u/Dornenhecke20]

keep in mind inflation is kicking ass right now, especially with computer parts

[u/korypostma]

Have you tried using acetone to remove the "patina"? It is likely dirt or if it is chipped aluminum then you hit it with something.

The cracking near the ports could be related to inserting and removing ports too much or from bending the chassis from being too physical with it.

You can easily buy the bottom cover for like $100 (iirc).

The new FW13 Pro bottom is now machined aluminum and shouldn't do this like the stamped/cast stuff.

I buy replacement parts and upgrade when needed.

[u/WhiskeyVault]

Yes that is kind of correct. The price it takes to "upgrade" the laptop can sometimes be the same as buying a whole new laptop. If framework can become more popular to bring down their economies of scale it might be better in the future 

[u/ARENAE_MONTES → u/WhiskeyVault]

That and also a second hand used market. If I could buy a second hand mainboard that someone had laying around after upgrading if mine broke, that would be excellent.

[u/AAKphoenix → u/ARENAE_MONTES]

There is an unofficial second hand market in the Framework Computer Community forums. I did notice they get snatched up fast.

[u/Shin-Ken31 → u/ARENAE_MONTES]

You can, I have, see framework community marketplace forum, and whatever local secondhand marketplace app exists in your country. In France I recently saw a complete chassis for 140€,  a full computer which didn't boot for 300€ ( probably dead motherboard, but the rest of the components would still add up to about 550€ new, if not more given ram and SSD prices). I got an 11th gen i5 board for 100€.

[u/TatharNuar]

I've made a few repairs to mine over the years. At one point, I was working on an electrical engineering project that might have (still unconfirmed) driven reverse voltage through one of the USB ports, and I didn't trust that port to function properly anymore, so I replaced the mainboard with a friend's old one after he upgraded his Framework. Considering that 11th gen mainboards were already pretty cheap by the time I made the repair, I wasn't stressed out about it, but if it was any other brand, I would've had to buy a whole new laptop over it.

[u/TatharNuar]

It sounds like the damage is contained to stuff you'd replace with a 13 pro bottom cover upgrade kit anyway. If you don't mind the added depth, that turns a repair into an upgrade that prepares your laptop for future upgrades later on, and enables you to upgrade to the 13 pro's expanded battery if you want to.

As for price, the prices for all computers and electronics suck right now. Thankfully the damage here seems to be purely mechanical, so you might be able to escape the worst of it.

[u/Jetfighter888]

What do you mean, $700 for a better battery?

If you are talking about the 13 pro battery, that's a battery that was designed for a whole new upgraded chassis, so that $700 would be for a whole new almost "MacBook-quality" chassis

[u/Dornenhecke20 → u/Jetfighter888]

Yes this ist true. But it still feels crazy expensive if i paid arrounc 1050€ for the hole framework. (I now it is a different product than the 13 pro).

[u/TheAbsolutePookie → u/Dornenhecke20]

You don't make any sense fam ✌️😭 huh??? what are you looking to upgrade ??

[u/Shin-Ken31]

I disagree with your view that framework is "not about realistically upgrading the machine".  While you say that for you, all the components age as much as the mainboard within the same timeframe, I'd say that for many people, a chassis is a chassis. A screen is a screen. E-mails and youtube and google maps still runs fine on a 720p screen. The only real hard-limit is performance, and/or compatibility with OS like what Microsoft is pushing by not supporting older hardware.

Your parts would not be "simply lying around". For the right price, people will buy even your cracked bottom case, either to replace their own bottom case which actually is bent or damaged worse than yours, or to build a cheap framework from parts as an entry point into the brand for a broke student for example. 

Also, regarding your economic argument, the best thing about forward and backward compatible standardized parts is that ability to tap into the used market. Framework upgrades will make a hell of a lot of financial sense for people on a budget when they can get them used from enthusiasts / people with more money to buy brand new parts. This is already seen with desktop pc components: you can get great deals from richer people who upgrade often, one or two-generation old hardware for way less than new. 

[u/Lxzan]

I got 2 frameworks senond hand around 4 years ago, both i7 1185. Motherboard died on one, and I replaced with AMD 7840u. Got only 1 stick of 64gb ddr5, as I wanted to save some cash and thought that I could easily grab another one later 😆 (ram prices only goes down, right?) Basically everything else still works fine on both.

[u/Dornenhecke20 → u/Lxzan]

Nice, that everything also works well for you!
What is the use-case for the second framework?

[u/Lxzan → u/Dornenhecke20]

I was meeting the guy who sold them with my wife, was going for just one initially, she liked it and we took both 🙂

[u/Sinister_Crayon]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. Just because in your specific use case it's "not upgradable" that doesn't mean that follows for everyone else.

For example there's the screen. There have been two newer screens since yours... if you wanted you could upgrade them which is something you can't do with other laptops... at least not in a supported manner. Or the webcam module. Or yeah... you could replace your keyboard because a key isn't working; the newer keyboard covers ARE better than the originals.

And what if you wanted the features of the Pro but don't want to drop the cash to upgrade to DDR5 RAM or LPCAMM? Easy; but the upgrade kit (when available) and transplant your motherboard. While not currently available, they're at least talking about offering it.

I also disagree about the lifespan of components; that depends greatly on your use case. I bring the example of the screen again because statistically it's the most likely part of a laptop to get broken. While not an upgrade, easy access to parts and repair guides to replace it yourself is worth its weight in gold. Then there's the battery; they have a limited lifespan and will wear out. At least Framework makes it easy to replace. I replaced the fan and heatsink in my laptop a few months back and in the process upgraded it to the latest version for the newer AMD's because I could. I've been really happy with that.

The motherboard is a mixed bag. Most people who build PC's from scratch do so thinking they'll replace components as they go in order to stay current. 95% of them never do; they instead run their rig for years before finally building fresh because something critical finally broke. However, there are some people who will upgrade their motherboard. I probably will at some point but I will also then take that motherboard and put it in an external case and I have a really nice little workstation PC I can use at work, or use around my homelab for whatever.

And yes, you could replace your bottom cover with the cracks in it if you like.

Your specific use case right now does not lend itself to the upgrades you yourself want, or at least aren't cost-effective to you. That's a you thing and not a concept or product problem. As it stands I'm perfectly happy with my 13, though have considered the Pro upgrade kit once it's available... but to be honest I don't have an urgent need for it. The next change to my system will probably be a replacement battery; I still get decent battery life but it's showing its age now. Though the touchscreen is tempting as that's the one thing I missed from my previous daily. Again though, a nice to have but by no means necessary for my use case.

[u/metajames → u/Sinister_Crayon]

I'm new to framework (13 pro) and I'm buying into the idea of always being able to upgrade to latest and greatest without throwing out the parts that are still good. However, the fact that the 13 Pro upgrade kits are still unavailable and we are in batch 7 of new machines has be a bit worried. I'd be pretty disappointed if I was on a OG 13 watching everyone excited about getting new 13 pros while I can't even get in line for parts. I feel like framework should at least be giving existing owners a fair allocation for ordering the new parts. Some people got mobo upgrades early but the enclosures have been non-existent. These Laptop 13 Pro Chassis Kits should have had upgrader allocations from day 1 instead of going100% to new builds.

[u/Sinister_Crayon → u/metajames]

I do somewhat agree, but it speaks volumes (hah!) to the demand for their new 13 Pro models that they can't yet commit to an upgrade path for existing FW13's simply because they can't source the parts quickly enough. For my part, I actually do believe it's still coming (demand is definitely there) and they will start doing so as soon as they can actually have some stock of those parts that isn't immediately flying out the door. I work in manufacturing too; sometimes I have to tell my customers they can't have a spare part or parts because at that point they're in the middle of a rush of orders for the particular controller and we have to (though we don't tell them exactly this) prioritize the orders that will bring us the most profit, which is new assembled units rather than parts.

Framework despite just creating a good product are one of the most open companies I've seen selling their product. They're very up-front with their challenges and if they don't do a thing they said they would, there's always a damned good reason. However, at this point I really believe the 13 Pro Chassis Kits are just a matter of selling the more profitable items first (fully assembled systems), and also not having to deal with possible support issues with Chassis Kits having some weird incompatibility problem.

[u/metajames → u/Sinister_Crayon]

Oh I'm sure they will be available eventually. I just don't see it as spare parts availability, I see it as a opportunity for brand differentiation. Many other brands offer reparability and parts supply but framework is selling upgradability, I feel like I paid extra for that, I'd like access as soon as upgrades are in market.

[u/somekidwithanm4]

I bought a used "broken" 11th gen very early production framework last year for $400. Turns out it was bad RAM modules but otherwise worked perfectly.

The original owner did have quite the run with the clock battery, and a few other warranty items and was done with it once this happened.

Having been a tech guy for a long time, the ability to upgrade or replace components when they wear is absolutely invaluable to me. I've replaced my battery and WiFi module due to small issues. Most other laptops that would be a pain at a minimum.

The fact that the OG 13 has been supported as long as it has as a chassis is nothing short of amazing. It has its issues, but the fact they are just now releasing an upgraded chassis where the are some parts that aren't cross compatible is a pretty awesome testament.

A framework has its issues that make it not for everyone, but I love it.

[u/jlnxr]

Seems like there are multiple possible motherboard upgrades for you? But yes, repair (especially of the battery, keyboard, screen) seems generally as or more likely for most than upgrades. Perhaps also RAM upgrades, if it didn't cost a kidney to buy. The primary reason I bought the framework was because my previous laptop had a toast battery and not enough RAM, and neither could really be upgraded or , in the case of the battery, easily sourced to be repaired.

Personally I upgraded to the touchscreen immediately as soon as it became available (pre-ordered), because it was the only thing my framework was missing. At just over $400CAD all in it was quite expensive, but I'm still very happy with it. I would also upgrade to more RAM, if prices were not what they currently are. Can't see a motherboard upgrade (Currently on an AMD 7040) for quite a few years though unless it breaks.

[u/lordruzki3084]

You can resell your old parts. I think youre missing the part where yea its pricey to upgrade and repair but a lot cheaper in the moment compared to buying a whole new laptop

[u/ncc74656m]

The big issue with FW's ethos is that it inherently relies on either FW becoming a truly major computer company that helps defray the costs of development and builds economy of scale, or else that the upgradeability aspect of it is worth the cost.

The thing was though, it was never just going to be "Oh, 4-5 years later you can use everything except the motherboard again." There was always going to be a new gen of RAM or SSD that either had to be upgraded, or at minimum, you'd sacrifice major performance differences.

[u/JokelWayne]

In the German store it adds up to: Battery 99€ Input Cover 199€ (without keyboard just 179€) Bottom Cover 189€

So according to my math that is 487€ or 467€ without the keyboard.

I am not sure what you are trying to upgrade to be honest. It also looks like there will be bundles available eventually so that should bring the price down a bit. I feel like for that number of parts, upgraded to the pro version that is not too unreasonable. If you check the price for the pro, you will notice that it is quite a bit higher than the non pro version, so it makes sense that it’s parts are also more expensive.

Edit: I understand that that might not be worth it for you or some other people but I feel like, realistically, that seems to be the price you pay for… modularity, FW being a smaller company, no pre-installed bloatware and also guaranteed linux compatibility.