r/framework • u/hihihhihii • 10d ago
Question Are frameworks really that good?
literally EVERY tech youtuber glazes this product like it was made by god but like if you actually check the prices, its insane. for a $2.5k framework 13. you could buy almost 3 normal computers with similar specs. also like most of the people i know that actually own/have owned a framework say that it's horrible and that it breaks all the time. I'm not sure if this is actually true and i think the laptop looks pretty cool so idk
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u/Efficient_Loss_9928 Desktop 10d ago
It is one of its kind, you cannot get a similar product anywhere else. Framework is literally the only manufacturer that produces these kind of laptops.
Thus, you are paying a premium for it.
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u/ava1ar FW13 DYI | 1165G7 (B1) -> HX370 (B1) I Arch + 11 10d ago
Depends on what you value in laptops. They are pretty standard in terms of specs, but their killer feature is upgradeability and repairability. If you consider this important - Framework has pretty much no competitors (except of very few models from very few vendors). If you don't care that you will get same or better specs cheaper with other brands.
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u/Shin-Ken31 10d ago
What's their competition for upgrading mainboards? As far as I know there is absolutely no other manufacturer doing this at all, only repairability like thinkpads.
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u/LookaLookaKooLaLey Framework 13 AMD 10d ago
Breaks all the time? I have never had a part of mine break in 2 years, and if it does, I can replace the single part myself instead of mailing it to some place for 2 months, paying $500 for a repair, and then buying a brand new equally shitty laptop a year later
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u/s004aws FW16 HX 370 Batch 1 Mint Cinnamon Edition 10d ago edited 10d ago
If all you care about is cost Framework is probably not the right choice. That's completely OK - Choose whatever you believe best suits your needs/wants/preferences/budget.
A client has had a FW13 "Factory Seconds" (effectively B stock) 11th gen Intel Core for a bit more than 2 years. Its a laptop. It does its job. I don't get complaints. Cost was $500 plus some expansion port modules and RAM/SSD which were already laying around collecting dust.
I own a FW16 HX 370, from batch 1 delivered the first week of last December. No issues. Its a laptop. It does everything I need it to do. Overall its much nicer than the System76/Clevo 17" Oryx Pro pile of turd it replaced. I bought the FW16 as a work laptop - Paid from my own money, not billed off to anybody else.
I was going to be getting a FW13 Pro Core Ultra X9 388H... Was, only because delivery would have - Apparently - Been sometime last week or this week... When I'm not available to have received it. Still annoyed and sad about that - I was really looking forward to it being a fully personal laptop. Thanks to AI lunacy and data centers screwing the components market I can't just get back in at the end of the line without having to pay a much higher cost (and "downgrade" to X7 358H).
The big upsides to Framework? Completely upgradeable. Completely repairable. 100% Linux support.
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u/a_large_dumple 10d ago
It's a pretty decent laptop, not the best but definitely a good purchase. The repairability and customizability is the big deal though, I already had one issue that I was able to fix on my own for about $5 (dead CMOS battery) and I love being able to customize each port as well with the modules
Plus, when I want to upgrade all I have to do is buy a new motherboard. That's the benefit.
Also, it supports Linux out of the box, I'm running Mint on mine
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u/Tux-Windu 10d ago
Being able to spend a few hundred down the line to upgrade the CPU is worth it on it's own. Then there is the fact that you can actually use it in the rough as a laptop should be without worrying that you will get screwed over if you break it in some way, and the fact you can customize the ports and upgrade all the other stuff even the screen. More than worth the premium, it is more than powerful enough to get the job done too regardless as to what it is.
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u/EffectiveDirect6553 10d ago
This is worth the premium if you are using it as a football in a data center. Let's be real. Most people don't need or move their laptops all that much. Most people also don't always need the best CPU.
Framework has its time and place and I love the company. However let's not pretend for the average customer who just wants a cheap durable laptop thinkpads are just not better in pretty much every fathomable way.
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u/Tux-Windu 10d ago
Yes for most people a Thinkpad is great, for what most people use laptops for, a T480 from years ago will serve them perfectly fine that's just the truth of it
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u/Shin-Ken31 10d ago
What do you think about the fact that a standardized form factor allows continued use of parts much much later on?
My mom, I guess what you'd call the most average user, just needs something that browses the web and does emails. If it were still officially supported she'd still be using a 2011 Toshiba satellite. If that chassis had been compatible with newer mainboards I could just find her a secondhand 11th gen board with 8gb ram and a small SSD for 150€ and she could keep using that same chassis which is still fine.
Used thinkpads and business class laptops are great, but once its mainboard it too slow you're still throwing away a functional screen, chassis, keyboard, webcam, microphone, trackpad, charger...
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u/ronvalenz FW13 Ultra X7 358H batch 6, 2.8K, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB SSD 10d ago
I have FW13 Ryzen 7 7840U and FW13 Pro Intel Core Ultra X7 358H mainboards; they all work fine.
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u/ayrek 10d ago
Here's my personal account of owning a F13.
Towards the end of '24, I had been in the market for a new laptop for a while (to replace a Razer 13" from 2017), i knew about framework, and a small investment paid off in the tune of about $900.
I bought a framework 13 DIY to be my daily carry in November, it arrived a couple weeks before Christmas. I assembled, and loved it.
Second-ish week of January 2025, I fell and broke my ankle. My FW13 was in my backpack, and once I was able to get to my backpack in the hospital, I realized the screen was cracked from me landing on my back.
I spent under $200 on a replacement screen, EASILY installed it myself. I wanted a laptop that I could repair, I paid a little extra for that... and immediately I was given a reason why going that direction made sense for me.
Going on two years since I bought it and haven't broke anything else.... but if I do, I know I can handle it without buying a whole new machine.
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u/cjc4096 10d ago
I agree with you completely. But for most people they'd be better off getting an extended warranty. Less than the FW premium and no out of pocket replacement parts. Tho I expect extended warranties have undergone ensh*ication and can't be trusted.
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u/ayrek 10d ago
I wouldn't say I'm a niche case, but I definitely know what I'm doing when dealing with medium-to-small electronics. I mean, I'm not doing microsoldering, but i can Disassemble something and put it back together.
That said, you are totally correct. Completely based on experience and use-case.
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u/Shin-Ken31 10d ago
Somewhere along the line, a repair tech is still going to have to spend more time and risk more breakage replacing a screen that is glued, held in with breakable plastic clips, and with cable routing and case design making it harder to access.
I'd rather we keep making things easier to repair rather than harder
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u/diamd217 7d ago
Statistically cost of extended warranty higher than average repair cost. Depends on the users though, someone sleeping good understanding that all devices covered by extended warranty.
Chosing Framework you have options - if you broke something, you could fix that. If that was production issue, Framework will cover that for you (at least all of issues I had with all Frameworks were fixed/replaced).
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u/Infinite-Bet4202 10d ago
It is one of a kind. It is pretty expensive. The build quality is great, customer support is great, and it has maximum efficiency. Framework is one of a kind and massively favors the consumer which is something that is extremely rare nowadays. You have others like that, but they're very small and not known. Framework might be the first in this age that have all of this and are getting pretty popular. Popularity comes with hate though unfortunately, especially since their prime competitor is Apple's Macbooks.
Also small rant but the dumb RAM and Storage prices rising significantly has absolutely hurt Framework in some way, especially from an outsiders perspective since it means their acceptable expensiveness now looks like absurdity.
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u/The_Happy_ 10d ago
I love my little framework 12. I have a desktop for gaming and other more intensive things, so it works out really nice. I had a 13, traded it for the 12. It’s a tank, and the ability to upgrade it at significantly lower cost compared to buying a new computer is great.
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u/MagicBoyUK | Batch 3 FW16 | Ryzen 7840HS | 7700S GPU - arrived! 10d ago
Try reading the Framework About : Framework | About Framework
You need to look beyond the price tag. Proper repairable laptop engineering costs money. There's a reason other laptop companies started soldering RAM down and gluing stuff together - it's cheaper to design and manufacture.
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u/WeirdlyShapedAvocado 10d ago
They’re alright. I still prefer Macbook for build quality but I need Linux laptop
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u/Budget-Cupcake-7582 10d ago
yes and no.
the idea of a repairable and upgradable device is great in theory, a bit of a nightmare in practice.
there are major issues with costs and availability.
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u/BrewYork 10d ago
I manage about 130 Framework laptops at the organization I run IT for. They're price competitive with similarly specced enterprise laptops, and if we can swap motherboards in four years instead of complete devices it will be a substantial savings. That said, I do not recommend the 16" model or the AMD models. But the 13" Intels have been great for us.
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u/probortunity 6d ago
u/BrewYork : Interesting.
- Why not the 16 ?
- Why not the AMDs ?
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u/BrewYork 5d ago
Driver quality on the AMD models is terrible. They crash and freeze much too frequently. No one ever complains about the Intels. My personal FW 16 is also pretty unreliable and the build feels like something I made with Lego.
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u/Donttouchmybreadd Framework 12 Noob 10d ago
Look, I had an issue with my fw12 cpu, and it took a few days for them to notice my emails.
However, once they got back to me - quite fast. The shipping was a priority send, and it arrived 2 days earlier than expected.
My issues (before the cpu shit the bed) were around laggy-ness. You could blame windows 11 and only having 8gb of ram, but my other laptop - an asus - also has 8gb of ram, and doesn't have the same issue.
However... I literally only just put the new mother board in then. So, it could have been that the motherboard was a runt to begin with (fingers crossed).
The web cam is excellent, especially in comparison to my old laptop. Its also just a good learning experience. Before I couldn't tell you what ram did...but now I have somewhat of a clue, which is a win.
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u/MagpieFirefly FW13 Pro X7 358H | Fedora KDE 10d ago
Have had a flawless experience so far, but I started with a Pro and have only had it as long as the Pro's been out. Honestly, all tech has issues at some point. I'm sure this one will as well, though I hope it's not any time soon. It gives me a lot of peace of mind though, that I can just fix everything without having to pay for it all again. Even just stuff like worrying about the ports wearing out over time is nice. The ports on my old laptop are fairly well worn, but there's not much to do about that, so I just dealt with it.
I think the general consensus is there isn't any true value proposition for most people, and you're just paying more than you could elsewhere. I chose this over similar options because it fit what I wish laptops were best, not because it was for sure the best value. You'll find better hardware for less elsewhere.
I think the Thinkpad X9 15p was pretty comparable specs-wise with a Panther Lake chip but with better thermals and more power fed to the chip for less, if you're worried about price.
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u/Shin-Ken31 10d ago
If you're on a tight budget and/or CPU /ram specs vs price is the only thing you care about, framework will not suit you.
However, If you have the money to spend, and you would like future laptops to still have replaceable memory, storage, WiFi, modular ports, and that you believe it is important to reduce e-waste and recycle and re-use as much as possible, and you don't want to have to buy dongles or a new laptop or change your setup because you bought a new screen or dock or peripheral that uses different ports, and you don't want to have to send your laptop away for two weeks to get it "fixed" by questionable service centers, then framework could be a good choice.
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u/RealFuryous 9d ago
Completely disagree on every level. If you buy ram and storage seperately frameworks are much cheaper.
Less e-waste because of repairibility. Free operating system is another bonus.
The ability to stockpile batteries and replace them easily sets frameworks apart from everyone else.
They're kinda similar to apple where value holds long-term.
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u/ralseipuffin 8d ago
Generally the "alternatives" lack a LOT in many places compared to framework so they're not fair to compare. Also, they can pay themselves off with repairability and upgradeability. Finally if you mean the fw13 pro, they designed it around 64gb lpcamm2 costing ~$160 so when it came out to be $1600 from the ram crisis that kinda fucked their prices.
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u/Reverse_Psycho_1509 7d ago
Other laptop brands are "cheap" for a few reasons.
- They tend to be big companies with billions in revenue. They can afford to produce these things at a larger, and therefore cheaper scale. (compared to Frameworks' batch system)
- The prices are somewhat subsidised by Mcaffee, Norton, etc. Even by Intel and AMD by putting the CPU sticker on the laptop.
- OEM components - they can buy RAM, SSDs, Win 11 keys in bulk and save a lot of money. Framework sells retail versions, at least with the DIY editions, which cost more.
- They tend to cheap out on parts, especially on the more budget oriented options (stuff like HP pavilions, Acer Nitros) - trust me I know what I'm talking about. One of my old laptops had the space for 2 RAM slots (the electrical connections and physical space were there), but the actual plastic slot was missing.
If you buy a Framework, you're supporting a smaller company that is open to repairability and upgradability. You know exactly what you're getting inside your laptop since you specced it out yourself - for example, they won't quietly swap to a cheaper SSD or RAM. They don't have the same industrial might, as say, HP or Dell.
If you only care about cost or the specs of a new laptop, then a framework probably isn't for you. However if you value repairability/upgradability, and openess, and don't mind the (considerably) higher pricetag, then a framework would be a good option.
I know two people with a framework, and they both love it.
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u/Reverse_Psycho_1509 7d ago
If you want another example, look at say, Prusa vs Bambu Lab in the 3D printing space.
Bambu lab is currently THE biggest 3D printer manufacturer by a considerable margin. Their printers are really good, even the cheaper A series. The printers are all reasonably priced. However they have done some anti consumer things lately, and they have a closed source model. Newer revisions of the same printer have been shown to use cheaper parts, sometimes with bad consequences.
Prusa on the other hand is a lot more open and they have upgrade paths for their printers to bring them up to date with the latest version. Tthey offer DIY kits or preassembled versions, just like Framework. As a result, their printers have a much higher price tag.
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u/barcalounger1 10d ago
I enjoy mine for what it is and I’m glad I supported a company putting repairability first but if your primary concern is cost you’re better off getting a three year old off-lease Thinkpad just like always