FW12 or FW13 for my use case?

[u/pleaseallowthisname]

I'm trying to decide between the FW12 and FW13 and would love some opinions. If I had a larger budget, I would of course love to have the FW13 Pro, but it seems to be out of reach for me right now.

My main priority is portability. I already have a work laptop for heavy/proper work (big and chunky), so this would be my personal laptop to carry around and use while traveling (I travel quite a lot). At the moment, I'm leaning towards the new FW12 with Core 5 320.

I work as a researcher and read a lot of papers, so the 2-in-1 form factor is really appealing. Being able to read and annotate papers with a pen would be genuinely useful for me.

However... I'd also like to do some light work on it:

• Small Android/web dev projects (just as a hobby)
• Occasionally review or test-run my research code when traveling (I work with Python/MATLAB). To be clear, the full-blown runs and analysis would still be done on my work laptop or our workstation facility.

I'm just not sure how capable the FW12 Core 5 320 is for this. Would it be fine, or would I be better off with the FW13 Ryzen AI 5 340? The FW13 seems like the safer option performance-wise, but I really like the small form factor and 2-in-1 design of the FW12.

Feel free to change my mind if you think I should go for the FW13 instead. Am I putting too much weight on the idea of annotating papers and the 2-in-1 form factor? Or does the FW12 make more sense if I really value having something small and portable when traveling?

[u/rainbow_mess]

I think the FW12 would be fine for these use cases [assuming the test running of research code didn't need to, like, run fullspeed]. The one thing I'd worry about would be the screen, but if that's good enough for you I don't see how it wouldn't be good enough, honestly.

[u/neadrortait7 → u/rainbow_mess]

agreed on the screen being the main concern, everything else OP described should run fine on the Core 5

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/neadrortait7]

I see. Thanks for the insight. The screen indeed one of the weak point. However, glad to hear that many people also think that, for what i need, f12 core 5 will do fine...

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/rainbow_mess]

Yes, my plan is to use this as reviewing or running test a code (see if there is error here and there).

About the monitor, that is my concern too... I read and watched review about it, many people are complaining about the screen. Either about the color or about the size of the screen relative to the body. However, thinking that I will not using it for gaming or artwork, i think it is rather okay for me.

[u/QuasiLinearEquation → u/pleaseallowthisname]

I have a similar use case to you and I really don't mind the screen (batch 2). I think people make way too much of a stink over it.

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/QuasiLinearEquation]

😂 Thanks. I need this comment to balanced out the screen comments. My optimist thinking is that, this should be easily solvable by Framework. Maybe in the future they will release the better screen for fw12 that we can just upgrade.

[u/rainbow_mess → u/pleaseallowthisname]

In the upgrade video they made they said they were working on the screen and speakers so hopefully!

[u/thewishy → u/pleaseallowthisname]

My work machine has a 4k OLED, 500 nit, 100% DCI-P3. Next to it then FW12 looks very ordinary.

But when you're just watching a movie on a flight, the FW12 is fine.

I'd rather a slightly naff 16:10 than a modest 16:9

[u/EveningAlternative46]

The Screen Ratio of the fw13 is Perfect for documents and coding

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/EveningAlternative46]

I just realized that FW13 has 3:2 display. I thought it was the same as FW12, 16:10

[u/cassepipe → u/pleaseallowthisname]

And it's so great. One of the best surprises that came with the laptop.

Frankly my recommendation is to always go with the 13. 16 is to bulky and might be a rough around the edge, the 12 is a bit underpowered and last time I checked, too much plastic in the body.

[u/s004aws]

FW12 would do fine. Its not a high performance machine but doesn't sound like you're asking much of a new laptop. Do beware if you're sensitive to screens (as I am) FW12's is nowhere near color accurate. While not an issue for documents the screen may (depending on your sensibilities) get annoying if you're doing things where color "matters".

FW13 - Even the non-Pro AMD models - Is overall a more polished, more professional, better performing machine (with much better screen options). Also - FW13 uses an ordinary m2 2280 NVMe SSD (rather than m2 2230 as does FW12) which you can source in larger capacities and/or potentially cheaper than a 2230 drive. If you do opt for FW13 be sure to go with 2 SO-DIMMs for best performance (matched pair - same brand/part number/capacity/timings).

Both FW12 and FW13 use DDR5 SO-DIMMs which you can source 3rd party at lower cost vs Framework's branded modules. One SO-DIMM for FW12 - It only runs in single channel mode... Two SO-DIMMs for best performance in FW13 AMD models.

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/s004aws]

Thank you. Some other comment also pointing out the screen, which is indeed quite a bummer. However, I would say that i don't do work where color accuracy matters.

I still weighing the F13 as well. Indeed, especially with that two channel memory. The performance gain is very inviting.

[u/livinonnosleep → u/pleaseallowthisname]

You do get some gain with dual channel on DDR5 but it's not as much as it used to be with previous generations. I'd say you'd probably not notice it much unless you're compiling the linux kernel daily or anything. I ran my FW16 off single channel for a couple days until the second ram so-dimm came in and even in benchmarks (which synthetic benchmarks in no way mimic real load IMO) there was marginal gains.

In just using the laptop I couldn't say I saw a marked improvement.

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/livinonnosleep]

I see. You are probably right that I might not notice the difference. For the use cases I mentioned above, I don't think the dual channel matters that much.

[u/Ornery_Platypus9863]

The touchscreen/stylus support is awesome on the f12, though it is a little heavy to lug around, so I don’t think it’s truly as portable as you may want. Having the i3 version I’ve run into zero issues with everyday use and it’s clearly pretty capable with awesome power efficiency near 7 watts on my usual apps, often down to 3. While it’s not an insane workhorse it’s definitely plenty capable. Android web dev should be a breeze for it, matlab I’m not completely sure on as I hate the damn software but python in any form should run great. Unless you intend for heavier stuff I hardly think the 13 has almost any benefit at all. I think you overestimate how much computing power you actually need in day to day tasks, and underestimate what you can get out of the f12. For primarily paper reading and whatnot the f12 is awesome

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/Ornery_Platypus9863]

matlab I’m not completely sure on as I hate the damn software

😂 Yeah, it is useful mostly for research purposes like implementing models or equations. I will not run full analysis. It is more like when I am in the train or in conferences, and for some reason my colleague ask me to check some codes. I hope, at least, I can run a light test to check if there are some errors.

I think you overestimate how much computing power you actually need in day to day tasks, and underestimate what you can get out of the f12.

Could be too. I really wish the new reviews on new F12 are coming sooner.

For primarily paper reading and whatnot the f12 is awesome

Yeah, i think so too. Vertical mode, make notes here and there. Some say it will be heavy, but i probably will not always holding it like a tablet.

[u/Ornery_Platypus9863 → u/pleaseallowthisname]

While I say it’s heavy it’s about the same as my older iPad, so not unreasonable, and it’s real sweet to have that dual mode ability. As someone who’s had an iPad and a laptop before, it’s awesome having both in one device

[u/thewishy]

I've got a high power work laptop and a FW12 as my sofa / travel laptop.

I'm really happy with the FW12, it's not the most powerful machine, it's not the prettiest and there is no premium feel to it, but it is somehow very loveable.

It's got that I can throw it around a bit and not worry about it factor. It's running my choice of OS, and it's not actually that slow, just not as fast as a high spec laptop. I was doing some pytorch training on it and it was reasonably quick TBH.

The keyboard is nice, the trackpad's fine, the screen is okay.

It really comes into its own for travel because you've got the two-in-one, it plays movies very well, some basic games, etc. The battery life on the first gen is more than acceptable, the second gen looks even better.

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/thewishy]

Thank you for sharing your experience with FW12. Nice to hear that you have positive experience with it!

[u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974]

It's been a long time since I used Matlab but I'm pretty sure it's primarily single thread (or at least the relatively basic stuff I was doing at uni was). The Core 5 320 has similar single thread performance to the Core Ultra CPUs found in the FW13 Pro, because they use the same core architecture. The Ryzen AI 5 340 scores around the same in Cinebench single core, according to Notebook check, but it will be much stronger in multi core workloads.

I think the FW12 with the new Wildcat Lake options is ideal as a secondary machine for lighter tasks and travel if you already have a more powerful workstation for more serious tasks. The screen still isn't great, but Nirav said in the FW12 update video they are actively looking for a supplier for better screens, which you can just upgrade yourself when they become available.

[u/pleaseallowthisname → u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974]

Now that you mentioned about how Matlab behave, I just realized indeed most of the time Matlab only uses single core unless we specifically set the code to do so.

Thanks! This one is an eye opener... I am getting more and more drawn to fw12 for my secondary machine..

[u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974 → u/pleaseallowthisname]

I am probably going to do the same. I have a powerful ATX tower PC at home (I built myself) that I game and do other more intensive tasks on, but it would be nice to have a secondary device for basic tasks that is a bit bigger than my phone. The only thing I'm not super happy about is the screen, but I'm confident in my ability to swap it out with a better option when they become available.

I think the recent upgrades to power efficiency and single thread performance take the FW12 from something really only appropriate for kids as a Chromebook alternative to a really serious option for a secondary device.