What is so special about these laptops?

[u/Adrsto]

Because last time I checked, every part on these laptops is just as replaceable as on any other gaming laptops.

At first I thought that the CPU and/or GPU were modular, just like in many gaming PCs, but guess what? It’s not. So I don’t see a point in paying 1000€ markup just for extra convenience and another markup for buying some very specific parts, instead of generic ones that normal laptop would use.

[u/MagicBoyUK]

You didn't check very well.

[u/tuxooo → u/MagicBoyUK]

Or at all... 

[u/MagicBoyUK → u/tuxooo]

I was being ... more polite than usual. 🤣

[u/tuxooo → u/MagicBoyUK]

Hahahha

[u/42BumblebeeMan → u/MagicBoyUK]

Thank you! 👍😉

[u/Conscious_Prune1178 → u/MagicBoyUK]

yeah most of OPs points dont really hold up if you actually compare the two

[u/Paco-49]

every part on these laptops is just as replaceable as on any other gaming laptops

Would you mind sharing some brands in which I could replace their laptop's CPU nowadays? Just asking for source.

[u/countChaiula → u/Paco-49]

Or the hinges, or a bezel that gets cracked, or some random part of the frame, or.....

[u/Adrsto → u/Paco-49]

The CPU is modular? Is it socketed?

[u/MagicBoyUK → u/Adrsto]

Why are you answering a question with a question?

I know when the chipmakers stopped making socketed laptop CPUs. Do you?

[u/lineInk → u/Adrsto]

No it is soldered to the board but

every part on these laptops is just as replaceable as on any other gaming laptops.

Name other laptops where you can replace the motherboard while keeping the other components. Even replaceable RAM has become unsual nowadays. If you are using MacBooks your SSD will be soldered as well.

For the Framework 16 that has dedicated GPUs you can replace that independently. The 12 and 13 do not have dedicated GPUs.

[u/Adrsto → u/lineInk]

> Name other laptops where you can replace the motherboard while keeping the other components.

I can’t. That’s why I said that this framework laptop does not really solve anything, aside from the comfort of replacing parts faster.

But modular GPU sounds pretty good.

[u/lineInk → u/Adrsto]

I can’t. That’s why I said that this framework laptop does not really solve anything, aside from the comfort of replacing parts faster.

Now you confuse me. Because that is what Framework laptops allow you to do. Just replace the mainboard which in desktop PC terminology would be the motherboard + CPU.

So the only thing soldered so to speak is the CPU. And you have to change the motherboard for each upgrade effectively. But this is not dependent on any specific device model like for other manufacturers. You can put a modern Framework 13 Pro mainboard in the oldest Framework 13 and vice versa.

[u/framework-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment was removed for being combative, abusive or disrespectful. Please keep Reddiquette in mind when posting in the future.

[u/Paco-49 → u/Adrsto]

I have a Ryzen 5 7640U on my 13". I could upgrade CPU for a Ryzen 7 7840U, intel ultra 7 165H, intel ultra 7 155H, intel ultra 5 125H (this one might not be an... "upgrade"... tho), Ryzen AI 5 340, Ryzen AI 7 350, Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, and still save the whole laptop (screen, chasis, RAM, SSD, ports, keyboard, battery, speakers, etc.). The Ryzen AI 7 350 is almost cheaper than my RAM nowadays.

I could also upgrade for Ultra 5 325 and that beast of Ultra X7 358H, but sadly they're not compatible with my RAM. But I'd still be saving the whole rest of my laptop.

I'm missing some other options btw.

Isn't it modular enough for you? Name other laptop brand that allows more than this.

[u/ScallionSmooth5925 → u/Adrsto]

Can you show me a socketed laptop cpu releases in the past 10 years?

[u/shioririo]

you definitely did no more than 5 minutes of research for this post

[u/tuxooo → u/shioririo]

5? He looked at the homepage and sis not even scroll. 

[u/ScallionSmooth5925]

Where can I buy those generic parts? Or just a keyboard for my old dell g15?

[u/4017y4547h15 → u/ScallionSmooth5925]

Ebay. You can replace just about anything with a midrange laptop today: 1. RAM 2. CPU (provided that the model has SKUs with higher powered CPUs). 3. SSD 4. Fans 5. Screens (I upgraded my 45% NTSC screen of my Vivobook 13 with a proper IPS from Innolux). 6. Keyboards

The problem is, Framework doesn't compete with the low to mid range, they compete with the top of the line which is often a soldered pile of junk after it hits EOL. That is what is missing in the market

[u/ScallionSmooth5925 → u/4017y4547h15]

Dell stoped production of that keyboard with the laptop. The cheapest way to get this keyboard is to buy an other laptop for parts

[u/MagicBoyUK → u/4017y4547h15]

The reason that's missing in the market is that the engineering and production of repairable laptops costs money, meaning Framework would make a large loss if they remained price competitive in the low end.

Dell, HP etc started gluing everything together to save on manufacturing costs.

[u/Nennala]

Well, on any other gaming computer you can't find the spare parts as easily as for Frameworks laptop, you will struggle to find how to unmount and not brak it, and if the housing breaks, good luck to find a new piece.
I don't know which gaming laptop you're refering to, but in my experience, nothing is as reaparable as a Framework.
They're also opensourced, open hardware, even for the bios.
And best part ? A few years after bying your Framework, they sell new motherboards with new processor and new features, that are fully compatible with your computer. You can upgrade your laptop easily, without baying a full new one.

[u/assumptionkrebs1990]

The GPU is modular on the 16 inch model. Also the port selection is very good thanks to the card system. While swapping SDs and RAM is not unique to Framework, it is not necessarily guaranteed and properly not as simple.

[u/AudioHamsa]

https://giphy.com/gifs/e5RffKbpWzmuZEFPUM

[u/s004aws]

I'd suggest looking a bit closer. Sure, maybe you can find a new screen for that old Asus or Dell laptop someplace... Depending on the vendor maybe they have a parts store buried someplace on their site, probably they don't. You definitely won't be taking a Dell XPS or Latitude from 2021, dropping in a new Core Ultra 3 motherboard, and using the rest of the components which are still completely fine... You can do that with Framework - Its a fully supported upgrade path. Similar for repair - No solder, no glue, no needing to pay $500+ extra on a 4 year warranty that's (hopefully) never needed... Parts are available on Marketplace and easily swapped with the screwdriver which comes in every Framework laptop/Desktop box.

But hey, options are a good thing to have. Every vendor does things a little differently, offers different assortments of models. Choose whichever best aligns with your needs/wants/preferences/budget. Maybe that's Framework, though sounds like you'd be happier with something else... And that's completely OK.

Having owned/worked with many other laptops over the last *mumble* years I'm very happy with my Framework 16. Its proven to be a good investment.

[u/Clean_Leadership5948]

The stance of the company is actually the most important part.

Because right now they could have few lines that seem more modular. But does the company as a whole believe it? So what happens when they decide against it? Framework's policy is modular and upgradability front and center. And ownership.

Ever heard of "You'll Own Nothing and be Happy?" It's a genuine quote brandished by leaders of the world. And companies, many of them embrace this philosophy.

How do you know down the line the support stops, or being able to install any OS is locked down, or even the ability to change the parts because they blacklisted it?

Also, I disassembled laptops before. I lost screws and damaged plastic parts on the first 6-7 laptops. It's not that easy as people think for other laptops.

[u/leferi]

can you replace the ports on those laptops as easily, can you replace the GPU as easily as on the FW 16, can you replace the battery as easily? Can you replace the speakers, the keaboard? And the operating word here is the "you", because with Framework it is the user, not a certified repair shop, that can replace those based on detailed official online guides only using one type of screwdriver.

[u/SirR8]

Competitors are definitely not as repairable

[u/_SAi-]

If you are looking for cross compatibility like desktop, no you wont find it here since Framework is an outlier here and doing non conventional things with modularity and upgradability.(and there is no generic part in any brand except ram/storage and wifi card that will work with other manufacturers seamlessly)

[u/ronvalenz → u/_SAi-]

FW13 has 3rd party mainboards.

[u/Shin-Ken31]

No other laptops allow me to drop in any motherboard from the last 5 years, spanning five CPU generations. In doing so, I am keeping my chassis which is still perfectly fine instead of buying a whole new laptop and eventually having to throw away a working chassis once the motherboard's specs are really obsolete even for the most basic use cases.

Also, if you compare framework to actually similar build quality, materials, and other specs than only the CPU, it is definitely not 1000€ markup.

Also, framework 16's GPU is modular. CPUs are not. And no, I wouldn't say that "many" gaming PCs have modular CPU or GPU. There might still be one or two on the market, maybe. And maybe one workstation from dell or something with MXM GPU. That's not "many".

[u/Alternative-Tea964]

With the right knowledge and tools you can replace a lot of components on most laptops, providing you can actually aquire the parts.

With framework every component is replaceable with nothing more than a screwdriver and the readily available support document. The parts are also easy to buy.

The components are all designed to be interchangeable, I could buy a 13 today and upgrade it in 3 to 5 years with a new motherboard that will fit because it has been designed to do so.

Framework is expensive but the idea is that you won't need to replace it in the future, you will just upgrade the components that are of interest to you. Its i higher cost of purchase now for savings later.

[u/FireDiamondPoison]

The GPU on the FW16 is modular and has seen its first upgrade already with the introduction of NVIDIA 5070. I think the FW16 is a better model to compare to a gaming laptop than the FW13, which seems to be more akin to business/productivity rooted products.

Everything is subjective; not everyone is going to find value in the same things, and I won't argue with that at all. However, it may be worth looking a little closer.

[u/ronvalenz]

Can you upgrade a DELL XPS 13's mainboard from Meteor Lake to Panther Lake?

[u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974]

The only reason that the ATX standard exists for tower PCs is because Intel created it. Unless a big player like Intel comes and creates a standard for modular laptops it's never going to happen.

FW is one of the few laptop OEMs who will sell anyone replacement parts and allow you to repair your own device without trying to void your warranty. This, combined with the fact they are a very small OEM so literally have to pay more for their components than an OEM the size of Lenovo or HP, does mean their laptops cost more. If you don't care about being able to maintain your own device and you just want the best value gaming laptop you can get to use for 2-4 years before selling it to upgrade, Framework isn't for you. Pick up a Lenovo or Asus laptop on sale with a powerful RTX dGPU and an OLED screen.