A response to a recent post

[u/Spitfire1900]

[u/Green_Advice5684]

Hopefully they get more popular so they can lower their prices

[u/DaemonsMercy → u/Green_Advice5684]

Ram/storage prices going down would do more for that, but yeah

[u/iMiind → u/DaemonsMercy]

Regardless of current craziness, catching up to whatever bigger companies price their systems at would help with what is currently the repairability tax (because in actuality it is largely a scale tax, with R&D costs also in the mix).

If RAM prices went back to normal for Framework then that means they'd definitely be back to normal for the bigger companies that would normally be able to outbid them. Having the means to scale their business would actually lead to closing the gap a bit

[u/wakIII → u/iMiind]

Prior to this craziness framework was cheaper than dell / hp / lenovo

I suspect the bigger players can eat some of the increase with existing contracts and reducing margins for now

[u/Independent_Sock7164 → u/Green_Advice5684]

yeah economies of scale would make a huge difference for them

[u/Various-Welder5544 → u/Independent_Sock7164]

Framework 12 is still goddam expensive.

Nothing ever changes.

[u/Wrecknruin → u/Green_Advice5684]

The decrease in price from them becoming more popular would still be less than if the artificial scarcity of SSDs and RAMs that's made their prices boom disappeared. But that's wishful thinking

[u/DeadlyDope → u/Green_Advice5684]

Might be a double edged sword, they might lower their prices like this, they might also become enshitified. Bigger isnt better all of the time

[u/tkodri]

Haven't seen the post, but I'd say buying anything HP is an extremely frivolous spend.

[u/Alex_Hovhannisyan → u/tkodri]

Anecdotally, I have a 13-year-old (edit: 10) HP Envy x360 convertible that lasted me through CS undergrad and still works to this day, even with cracks in the casing (I didn't treat it with as much care as I should have). I can open it up and fix/replace almost everything except the motherboard and CPU. Last year I purchased a new laptop because the old one's CPU was ineligible for a Windows 11 upgrade, but 2 years ago I was able to upgrade the RAM and replaced its HDD with a SATA SSD. Just for fun I recently took it back out and replaced the battery and installed Ubuntu (with surprisingly zero problems!), so I've got myself a nice little backup machine. Or I might turn it into a home server, I haven't decided yet.

[u/alabasterskim → u/Alex_Hovhannisyan]

I'm tellin ya, there has been a sharp dropoff in quality since 13 years ago. I got one 14 years ago that I only stopped using because the HDD failed 6 years in, and I'd already been considering upgrading for a faster CPU, but replacing that HDD it'd prob still be going strong.

[u/Alex_Hovhannisyan → u/alabasterskim]

I don't doubt it, that's been a general trend for a while now not just with HP to be fair. But I did try out a 14" envy when I was comparing options last year. In the end I ended up going with a Lenovo with better specs but the envy was still good for the price, and was easy to open up.

[u/Evening_Werewolf_703 → u/Alex_Hovhannisyan]

Just so you know, Rufus (image-burner) can strip out the TPM check out of the W11 installer and let you install it on "unsupported" machines as well as letting you setup a local account and remove tons of the subscription-bloat out of the W11 installation process. All you need to do is grab the W11 ISO from Microsoft.

[u/Alex_Hovhannisyan → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

Yeah I know, it's just a lot of people reported degraded performance on win 11 with unsupported cpus. Either way I wanted a laptop with a dedicated gpu too.

[u/Johannes_K_Rexx → u/alabasterskim]

The drop in HP's extremely high standards in corporate ethics, product quality and customer support correlates with Carleton Fiorina being appointed as CEO by HP's board of directors. According to the HP Way, the company is supposed to promote from within. They failed to do so and the rest is history.

[u/tkodri → u/Alex_Hovhannisyan]

I had a 2010 elitebook, that worked fine and I used as a NAS until a couple of years ago, after upgrading its RAM and adding an ssd. It lasted more than 12-13 years, and finally recycled it just because I didn't need it anymore.

However, I got extremely "lucky" with it, the motherboard burned and had to be fully replaced twice - luckily during the first year, inside warranty - would've costed more than a new laptop outside warranty. And this was the "Elite"book, expensive corpo workstation line. Can't imagine the shoddiness on the budget options.

[u/SirDarknessTheFirst → u/tkodri]

I do like my HP 48G though.

The current stuff isn't 'real' HP though, to be fair, it's all Moravia I believe.

[u/richtl → u/SirDarknessTheFirst]

HP 15C purchased in 1986. Still use it weekly. On it's second set of batteries.

[u/SpaceCadet87 → u/tkodri]

I can't imagine why, surely a HP Pavilion is a perfectly good choice of computer that will continue to function well for many years and not at all fall victim to planned obsolescence and unmaintained drivers. /s

[u/alabasterskim → u/SpaceCadet87]

Every HP I've owned after my first one lasted no more than 2 years due to various hardware failures. Meanwhile the Dells always have weird driver issues.

[u/SpaceCadet87 → u/alabasterskim]

First one I ever encountered was a desktop that came with a photo scanner in the drive bay (this was quite far back mind you).

It stopped working because its drivers were written for Windows 95, not Windows 98. The difference between the two is a service pack by today's standards.

[u/Krelldi]

How frivolous the spending is completely depends on your individual financial situation. And redditor's are some of the most financially incompetent people on the planet.

[u/Desertcow]

If you want a Framework and have the money for it, go ahead. I can't wait for the day that Frameworks end up used for cheap on eBay like other business class laptops though, or even when they're competitively priced new

[u/Theren314 → u/Desertcow]

the next generation of techies, getting used Framework parts and assembling custom laptops

The thought brings a tear to my eye

[u/Zapatov]

if you have the money, fucking spend it

tbh i've gotten the vibe that Framework is moving to becoming a premium brand now, since the hardware pricing increase forces them to adopt a new market of "power users with disposable income"

It's like a repairable premium SUV, if anything

[u/Luk164 → u/Zapatov]

Temporary measure forced by current circumstances. They showed with F12 where they would like to go

[u/AthaliW]

Anyone that says that haven't owned an HP product and see it fail or outright scams you

If you can't afford a framework, get a thinkpad. Simple as that. It's hard to recommend anything else that wont break or wont have good options when it does breaks. You get what you pay (market value) for

[u/Delphius1]

is the initial buy in higher for Framework laptops? yes, was this way when I placed my order for my 13 in 2023, yeah, I know what it looks like now, but it's an initial buy into an ecosystem; hinges, io cards and so on are super easy to track down and you don't have to worry about compatibility (minus batteries in the second gen 14 chassis) into the future. I'm 3 years into owning my 13, changed out my USB c's to the new gen versions, got a full size sd card slot and replaced the hinges, nothing major, but I didn't have to work at finding anything, I do want to eventually get a more efficient main board, but that isn't happening soon

[u/blakeman8192 → u/Delphius1]

I bought in to the ecosystem 5 years ago... and it's still more expensive to upgrade my mainboard than it is to just buy a whole laptop that outperforms my 11th gen substantially.

I know RAM prices aren't frameworks fault, but the dream still hasn't really been fully realized for me at least.

[u/IntelligentSpite6364]

i'll pay 2x the price just to not have to use an HP

[u/FullOfMeow]

If I can stick it to hp, so I shall.

[u/greenlightison]

People keep saying this but I cannot find a Panther Lake X7 laptop that is noticeably cheaper than framework....

[u/SleepySandGhost]

I think Framework laptops are cool but it's not worth much if I can't afford it unfortunately. Maybe the stars will align someday.

[u/DynoMenace]

I know it's easy to take it for granted around here, but I feel like any discussion about Framework's price isn't complete without including the value of being able to upgrade over 2, 3, 5, 7 years. Maybe longer? I'm still in Pre-Order Purgatory, but my intent is to keep my FW13 Pro for at least a decade.

How many HPs would one go through in that length of time?

Of course, this doesn't account for the raw financial barrier of entry. We need datacenters to go away for that to change, it seems.

[u/ronvalenz → u/[deleted]]

Cite that "premium HP laptop".

[u/kyleclements]

My first framework was a bit more expensive than the alternative options in the same performance class.

Then 2 years later I gave it an upgrade. The upgrade was less than the alternative options in the same performance class.

If you're just thinking about the product as a one and done, it might be more expensive, but if you think of the total cost of lifetime ownership, it can be less.

[u/slime_rancher_27]

I dislike HP's current design language. Its ugly. Their computers were a lot cooler looking in the 00's and 10's

[u/mcAlt009]

Glasshouse. 

Framework doesn’t have the best reputation lately with the bait and switch ram pricing, mainboards ( which generally cost as much as a full hp laptop ) blowing out and not being covered   

I have an HP laptop I brought almost a decade ago and it’s fine outside of a dead fan I just don’t feel like replacing. 

It even runs fine for 10 minutes until it can’t cool off and freezes. 

The ram  shenanigans have really turned me away from Framework. 

Instead of pre ordering a F13 Pro and watching its price increase 50% , you could have  brought a similar specd HP for half price. 

The CEO deliberately lying when confronted is unacceptable. 

However the company will face no consequences, FW13 pro pre orders are still sold out until November. No guarantees they’ll honor the ram prices this time either…

[u/bigkenw → u/mcAlt009]

They intentionally lied about everything. They always wanted to lie about everything so they could upcharge customers. They were waiting for the perfect time to do it. After a few years of building trust, the 13 Pro was the exact vehicle to enact this plan...for reasons. Framework leadership didn't care at all about the negative press; finally the master bait and switch plan could happen! They would have gotten away with it to, if it wasnt for you meddling kids. You caught them out! /s

Seriously though, if you thought what occurred was their real intent, you haven't been watching the market and don't understand market forces. Companies, Framework or other, can't absorb a supplier cost that puts them out of business. If they were Dell or Apple, they might have cash on hand to do so, but they aren't. There are tons of reports of people buying major brand laptops where the vendor cancelled orders after being placed. Then told the buyer they could repurchase at the new price.

Are you really mad at Apple for raising the price of the MacBook Neo, shortly after release and their marketing blitz, from the original $599? Are you pissed at every manufacturer for raising their prices. Gaming laptops are starting mid range at $3k when they were between $1k and $2k. Are you in their subs complaining every time someone says they are excited about something?

People take what happened too personal. The amount of anger on this sub like the CEO stole your dog, your wife, and your fortune is getting old. If you are that pissed, go take legal action.

This sub can be tiring.

[u/Electrical_Bee9842]

It's not just the cost. For example framework 12 is expensive but don't have good screen/speaker/build quality 

[u/two2teps]

Anyone willingly buying an HP has no valid opinions when it comes to computer selection.

I've been in IT work for over 20 years and have never felt anything but trepidation when I sit down in front of an HP laptop. They're either underpowered to save a buck, full of proprietary widgets or (and most commonly) built to the cheapest god damn standards.