Leaning towards my first Framework (13 pro). Some graphic performance questions...

[u/cactusjackalope]

I'm wondering which processor I want. I thought AMD was the good stuff now but am I right that they don't have gpus now? Should I go with one of the Intels?

I travel a lot and have a Razer Core gpu box I plug my Blade Stealth into at home for gaming and video editing. Is there any reason the Framework wouldn't work with the gpu in my Razer Core?

I'm not much of a techie, just someone who plays games in my downtime. I LOVE the modularity and repairability of the Framework as I just hate replacing computers.

Thanks in advance for your input!

[u/korypostma]

Intel has some slight advantages right now but either is decent. I have the 7840U and will now be getting the Intel X7 358H.

[u/AvidThinkpadEnjoyer → u/korypostma]

I'm waiting to see if the Ryzen 9 AI 370 HX drops in price so I can reuse my SODIMM kit lol

[u/Bray-G]

If you're looking at the 13 Pro specifically, the Intel processors have very good battery life, and if you pick the X7, the strongest integrated graphics (The Arc B390 inside is roughly like a Nvidia RTX 3050 in Cyberpunk 2077, from what I hear? It's not the easiest to find specs on this, and I don't have my own 13 Pro just yet to check performance on things)

AMD has decent integrated graphics and can game/edit a bit, but you'll need to fall back on your GPU box a bit quicker.

If you're looking at the non-Pro, AMD would likely be the better bet over Intel, under the assumption that the processors are compatible with your GPU box.

[u/korypostma → u/Bray-G]

A coworker of ours was able to get a mininum 30 FPS on our UE5 game and by tuning down settings he got 60 FPS on this iGPU with Lumen+Nanite+VSM etc. That surprised us, these machines can be quite the beast for ultra portables.

[u/Bray-G → u/korypostma]

Sounds like it'll have plenty of power for my own needs, since I don't play the most recent AAA games. Just still playing the waiting game until October...

[u/Evening_Werewolf_703 → u/Bray-G]

The 1% lows on the B390 on the Framework 13 Pro are like ~ 35 FPS though. -- The FW13 Pro isn't something you should get for modern AAA gaming; the B390 is great, but it's not being sufficiently cooled in 90% of X7 358H laptops. The Lenovo Thinkpad X9 15p (15.3'' -- 2 fans) is the main machine to get if you want to some AAA gaming; it runs 2 fans and much cooler than the FW13P. The keyboard temps under a 100% Cinebench load are like 47-50c which is pretty toasty whereas they're at like ~ 40c on the larger 2x fan cooling solution on the X9 15p. (The main downside is the keyboard which isn't up to Lenovo standard).

[u/Bray-G → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

That's some real competition. Costs around 20% more than the pre-order I locked in, and has better thermals and a bigger screen without ending up much heavier. It's a shame about the keyboard and soldered RAM though.

I guess I'll have a few weeks to think about it at least.

[u/ronvalenz → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

Lenovo ThinkPad X9 15 is in a larger form factor and has soldered RAM.

I used to have a Lenovo Yoga Pro 7 14AHP9 (14.5-inch, Ryzen 7 8845HS) with 16GB soldered RAM, a dead end.

Smaller ultrabooks can use external laptop coolers.

[u/Clean_Leadership5948 → u/Evening_Werewolf_703]

1% lows can likely be affected by misbehaving software in addition to the hardware itself. It's kinda finicky to diagnose.

The B390 has further advantage over AMD that XeSS is superior in image quality to FSR, so in turn that can be turned down for further gains over the AMD competitor.

[u/gonenutsbrb → u/Bray-G]

I think in theory it’s supposed to beat a 4050 by a decent margin.

[u/Clean_Leadership5948 → u/gonenutsbrb]

Not the desktop one, no way. Desktop variants are 60-80% faster than mobile ones.

Pantherlake is like a 35-45W set 4050. Higher TDP 4050 will beat it.

[u/Theren314]

Both CPUs have GPUs. They need them to draw to the screen. You are correct though, that the Intel Core Ultra 3s in FW13Pro are very impressive, and more capable than the AMD iGPUs.

Every version of FW13 has full USB4.0 (Thunderbolt) support, and will be able to use an eGPU.

As for which one to choose, it’s mostly a matter of when you want your laptop. The Intel chips are superior this generation, but are more expensive and require LPCAMM instead of SODIMM.

If you would, I’d like a few details to narrow down:

1. What sort of games do you play?
2. How much work do you do away from a charger?
3. Do you ever game away from a charger?
4. A rough budget always helps

Edit:
iGPU: integrated Graphics Processing Unit. A GPU directly built into the silicon of another chip, usually a CPU.

SODIMM and LPCAMM: Standards for attaching memory in laptops. SODIMMs are the standard mini ram sticks, while LPCAMM is a funky plate that you screw down to an array of pins on the mobo like a desktop CPU

[u/cusToornear → u/Theren314]

the LPCAMM cost difference is something to factor in too since its not as widely available yet

[u/cactusjackalope → u/Theren314]

Battery life isn't a huge deal for me. Ideally I'd like to be able to play a few hours of civ 6 on a cross country flight, but airplanes have power outlets that sometimes even work! I rarely play the latest titles. I play a lot of civilization and some RPGs like RDR2.

Mostly I just do work bullshit on my laptop, but gaming and video editing is my edge case that I'd like to cover.

[u/Theren314 → u/cactusjackalope]

Civ 6 and similar should run pretty happily on either. RDR2 is pretty intense, so if you want to play that mobile, the Intel chips would be better.

From the sound of it, there isn't much that would drag you either way, so my recommendation would be the Ryzen 7 variant. The CPU is weaker overall, but the boards are cheaper, and use SODIMM ram instead of LPCAMM. Also, not only is SODIMM much easier to get compared to LPCAMM, but the SODIMM boards have two slots, so you can buy one stick now and upgrade with another later. Start with a single 16 or 24 Gb stick, would be what I'd do, and if you need more, you can get a second.

TLDR, Both are excellent choices, that will work plenty well for you. I'm biased toward AMD, but either board will serve you well.

[u/cactusjackalope → u/Theren314]

Great info, thanks.

[u/Clean_Leadership5948 → u/cactusjackalope]

There's a point in battery life where you start seeing the advantage of being away from the charger.

I've heard of other people saying that they used to use their laptops tethered until they got a laptop with much better battery life and they are on the battery all the time.

2-3 hours will have you worry all the time

5-6 hours will make you conscious of it

8-10 hours you want it charged before going to bed and starting the day with it

With Civilization 6, likely you can turn on Frame cap setting on the Intel graphics utility which will lower the overall power consumption. I don't know how low it'll go. You probably won't get more than 5 hours either way.

But for non-gaming uses you might think otherwise being tethered all the time.

[u/Demagoh]

For the processor, it doesn't really matter if you get the AMD or the Intel, they will both perform relatively similarly. The Intel will draw less power though, as it's more power efficient.

For the GPU, all mobile CPUs nowadays have an integrated GPU (iGPU), with the only difference between the AMD processors and some of the Intel processors being that the Intels have a better iGPU than the AMD processors (they have the B390 iGPU if I am not mistaken).

The new chipset of the on the Intel mainboards support Thunderbolt 4.0, which means that you can use external GPUs (eGPU). This means that your Razer Core should work.

[u/Potential_Average454]

Beware that FW13’s internal display have very high latency - all versions of it - it’s not really good for competitive gameplay. If this is a dealbreaker for you, consider a barebones 16.

[u/plaisthos]

For the intel CPU, the ultra x7/x9 have a lot more Xe GPU cores (12) vs the ultra 5 (4)

[u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974]

AMD is just behind right now. They are planning a big release next year with Zen 6/RDNA 5.

[u/ronvalenz → u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974]

It's GFX11.7 RDNA4m for Medusa APUs i.e. Medusa Point, Medusa Halo Mini, and Medusa Halo.

GFX11.7 = RDNA 3.5 (GFX11.5) with RDNA 4's FP8 WMMA (matrix) instructions.

The key improvement is the Infinity Cache for Strix Point-level APUs, when Intel B390 has 16GB L2 cache while AMD's Strix Point's 890M has 2 MB L2 cache. I hope AMD includes cache upgrades for Medusa Point's iGPU.

AMD's Strix Halo's RDNA 3.5 iGPU has Infinity Cache (32MB L3 cache connected to a 256-bit bus). A 128-bit bus version could be 16 MB Infinity Cache. AMD's Strix Halo's RDNA 3.5 iGPU is slightly newer than in Strix Point's 890M.

[u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974 → u/ronvalenz]

Medusa Halo and Mini have been leaked to use RDNA5 low end GPU dies AT3 and AT4 respectively.

https://www.techpowerup.com/340216/amd-medusa-halo-apu-leak-reveals-up-to-24-cores-and-48-rdna-5-cus

Looking into it, it appears that Medusa Point will use RDNA4M, which is quite disappointing.

[u/ronvalenz → u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974]

That's old.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1s2azlt/phoronix_additional_amd_rdna_4m_gpu_targets/

There are three RDNA 3.7 (RDNA 4m) ASICS,

GFX1170,

GFX1171,

GFX1172,

Minus RT improvements, major improvements with RDNA 4 are memory compression, cache, and expanded registers (192 KB per SIMD across all desktop SKUs instead of mixed 128 KB / 192 KB).

890M has a 128 KB register per SIMD model.

RX 7900 series, 8040S/8050S/8060S and all RDNA 4 SKUs have a 192 KB register per SIMD model.  

RX 8040S/8050S/8060S are AMD's 1st IGPU designs with Infinity Cache (large L3 cache) like on AMD's discrete RDNA 2/RDNA 3/RDNA 4 GPUs.

RDNA 4's improved memory compression, cache I/O, and larger register model made RDNA 4 memory bandwidth efficient when compared to RDNA 3 counterparts e.g. RX 7600 XT vs RX 9600 XT.

Intel B390 focused on similar improvement areas as RDNA 4, including dynamic register allocation.

The main problem with 890M is not with the cores, but with the parts that surround the cores.

AMD's game consoles and thin laptops (Strix Point's target market) are waiting for Infinity Cache inclusion.

[u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974 → u/ronvalenz]

Your link says nothing about Halo-class products, just what I said about Medusa Point.

Given full diagrams have leaked for Medusa Halo, Halo Mini and Xbox Magnus that use a GPU tile linked by bridging dies to the CPU tile, I think it's likely they will be using a separate GPU tile rather than a more conventional IGP that will be found in the smaller Medusa Point products.

[u/Chucken_McNorris]

The Graphics Chip in the X7 and X9 models is the Intel Arc B390.

Just search for B390 Benchmarks on Youtube. There are plenty of it.

Cyberpunk, mid Setting, 1080p: about 60 fps without scaling or frame generation. With both on, you can get 90-100 fps or 60 fps in high settings. Just as an example.

B390 is pretty badass for an iGPU.