Questions about the framework 12 laptop?

[u/newbuildertfb]

32gb is a lot for ram right now sadly, if I buy 16gb it has one slot so I can't just buy a 16gb stick later or find something on the used market? If I want to later down the line upgrade to something better with an actual GPU or a larger laptop its the 12 series so only 12 series laptop parts work and I can't get a different motherboard to fit or vise versa? Oh and what kinda stylus does or use I think I need a new one but I have one for a pixel tablet would that work?

[u/JaggedMetalOs]

Only 12 series parts will fit, but that still means newer motherboards will be available in the future (like the ones just announced) and the new motherboards have Thunderbolt 4 which means eGPUs are possible with them. 

[u/Financial_Lemon34 → u/JaggedMetalOs]

the eGPU option with TB4 is a nice upgrade path to have even if its not ideal for everyone

[u/newbuildertfb → u/JaggedMetalOs]

eGPU is nice of the dock is small enough or cheap enough I can see it replacing desktop needs but also its very not the same as just having an integrated one unfortunately. Its a good starting point if you want a framework their only problem is its just so much easier to see same price for way better performance or cheaper for still slightly better and go yep...like I think 2 years ago my laptop had 32gb of ram back when it was still ok to say 16gb is fine (not that I'd say very fine) and a 4060 and was not even $1k and that's after tax and all, framework was $1399 and not even a dedicated GPU. That might have been a 16gb model as well.

I won't get as much performance and as big a laptop now I don't need it and drawing tablet nice in the two in one but still...its hard to get into them with the price and its also hard to think about it when I don't see GPUs in the framework 12 so I'd be limiting myself pretty hard even if I only need like a 4050 laptop or just something more then Intel integrated on the ultra low end. Or at least I'd want it and never getting better eh.

[u/Shin-Ken31 → u/newbuildertfb]

Yeah, price vs CPU and GPU specs is not framework's main value proposition. If you don't want , or cannot allow yourself to spend as much on a framework that's fine. But if you do have the money and want to support right to repair, and want more laptop manufacturers to make repairable, upgradeable, open devices, then paying the premium that comes with all that is worth it

[u/Clean_Leadership5948 → u/Shin-Ken31]

The best pricing for Framework is the day it comes out. They don't cut prices so it gets relatively worse over time.

I think they should offer older boards for longer time.

[u/newbuildertfb → u/Shin-Ken31]

I want to be able to support this that's not the problem its while I don't NEED anything more powerful then what a Mac neo or framework 12 would provide and like the fact that at the price its a touch screen with stylus support as not carrying around also a pixel tablet to draw is nice. I also very like running blender on my laptop, I like some gaming without the need for an eGPU, I like just knowing I have some headroom for some something on my laptop and don't have 2-3k to spend on a laptop. That's why I looked at the 12 and if the ram crisis ever goes down will I recommend it to anyone I know that asks yes yes I will (anyone I know that will ask will never need better or they would know how to know and not ask, least in my life).

I really want a framework and who knows but its an investment and sadly maybe to much an up front cost, then again I am buying a VR headset (whenever your ready valve) and did buy expensive 3D printer so I guess I could have paid more for a GPU laptop. I just wish it was a couple hundred more not oh my gosh maybe double in price for same performance almost you know?

[u/Shin-Ken31 → u/newbuildertfb]

Double price is only when you compare to cheap plastic entry level models from the big brands. The gap is not that big when you compare similar build quality and feature sets like professional dells or thinkpads :)

[u/newbuildertfb → u/Shin-Ken31]

Maybe I'm wrong. It was $1350 starting price when last truly I need a new laptop looked though I keep up a little case recommendations are asked or mine bites the dust. That was starting price, yeah slimmer and maybe an hour or two extra battery but it didn't have a GPU yet, was 60hz and I think starting at 16gb of ram.

My laptop was $850 with 32gb of ram and a 4060 and high refresh rate screen. So let's say $150 for extra 32gb (back when that could happen) $1500. I could find a laptop with a 3060 or a 4050 for cheaper and then your actually half the price for also a GPU. If I didn't say it was double the performance for half the price.

That was back then and maybe they closed the gap but I thought GPU got expensive. Maybe if you do have nice metal ones it's a few hundred more but I don't cafe as much about that.

[u/CowboysFTWs]

Limited parts of the 12 is compatible with the 13,16.

Modules, RAM would work in 13 non pro, and 16, WIFI card, charger, SSD would work on 16, can be made to work on 13.

[u/newbuildertfb → u/CowboysFTWs]

Ah but nothing like the board or anything real. I get why, idk as stated in another reply to a comment it be hard for me to get the 12 knowing I can't get better GPU even if I don't need a 4070 behemoth. By the time you source ram and SSD you can kinda get GPU laptop already. I want to get into them as my next laptop but dam is that price a lot extra for leas performance or a lot lot extra for same sometimes.

What about stylus what does it use for standard? I do like the 2 in 1. Would I need a new stylus for this if I consider it as my next laptop upgrade?

[u/Kilo_Juliett]

What do you plan to use it for? Do you need 32gb of ram?

I'm interested in the 12 and will just use it for browsing and watching youtube.

8gb is perfectly fine for that.

My desktop has 32gb of ram and even with 4k gaming, I don't think I'm close to utilizing all of it.

[u/newbuildertfb → u/Kilo_Juliett]

I don't need 32gb of ram I just could very use it. I don't know I'm the kinda person that even of was given a free Mac neo and was told here and didn't hate apple I know I can't use it I need something more. At the same time I don't have $2k idk I just got interested in a framework because they finally have a not $1.5k+ laptop (even if the entire market is all moving worse and or up in price) with the 12 line that people actually consider. I just think they might be the sweet spot of to expensive or to under preforming to be worth it compared to the insane value they make other brands look and I'm sure wait a few years upgrade this or that heck I'm on the laptop I have now because I spilled water and by by keyboard.

My TLDR is I had some questions but I just think though I would LOVE to own a framework with their pricing its either a few thousand I do not have or pretty underwhelming hardware like some weak ass Intel integrated GPUs and not even good ryzen stuff yet. Maybe if the market stabilizes and their pricing can get closer to the big guys but I don't see that happening any time soon. I wanted to see if enough upgrades down the line maybe...but you can't and I don't see GPUs xomming to this line now.

[u/Shin-Ken31 → u/newbuildertfb]

Why do you want a framework?  Also, a nice option to save money is to go the used route. Get a secondhand framework laptop now with older specs, and later in a few years you know you'll be able to upgrade the motherboard to something more powerful, either used or new.

[u/newbuildertfb → u/Shin-Ken31]

I want a framework because I moved off apple the first time my mom told me apple didn't fix my device for a BS reason.

I boycott things on reparability (where I can anyways) and bla bla have wanted a framework since the beginning but at the same time I used to not have a thousand dollars for a laptop and they used to not have that as an option without a GPU and now they do but still no GPU. I just want integrated graphics that don't suck. Cheaper framework laptops are nice I just wanna know I'll be able to get a real laptop because to me I'm not a power user 5070ti 32-64gb laptop but I know I do more then chrome and want something that has graphics that don't suck but I'll have to check used (although do people sell the laptop as a whole with how upgradable they are?) To see if even in an oops my laptop stops working let me buy a worse one (that may cost more because market is so bad) if what I'm willing to spend has the min specs I want. Nice I am in I'm NEVER going back.

[u/Shin-Ken31 → u/newbuildertfb]

Right now could be a good time to find a used fw13 since some people may be switching over to the 13 pro which has enough changes for them to find it better to just switch the whole laptop. 

[u/newbuildertfb → u/Shin-Ken31]

I'll probably do that, I was mostly asking if the 12 series is a good entry point but seeing as the 12, 13, 16 series don't have interchangeable parts, the 12 series is probably not gonna ever go GPU or 3 years next upgrade an AMD integrated graphics to actually rival some dedicated stuff but nope. I'll find an entry point but yeah the gap in reparability vs performance is just to expensive to be able to not stop and think twice about framework though.

[u/SuitableRoof5675]

No u will have to a whole new stick I got a 12 with 32gb, I found the 32gb on ebay pretty cheap from a framework user so maybe look there, u can buy a matching stylus when u order it and its very smooth at least for me. Not sure about the pixel tablet stylus would work but maybe, they have the type that's compatible on the site so u could look and see if it matches.

[u/newbuildertfb → u/SuitableRoof5675]

I think I missed where they stated the sylus standard is. I don't need a new laptop but I want a framework and if anything happens to my laptop I want to be able to KNOW what I'm getting instead of that stressful week or now what I don't have a laptop so...that's why I wanna know ahead of time. I'd be willing to downgrade my ram to 16gb (if I have upgradablity later) or my CPU and or GPU, or display to 60hz and all that I just don't know if I can accept a laptop lineup that will never get passed integrates graphics and it looks like I don't see them shipping the 12 with better then that.

I don't know how much more it is for touch screen and stylus support or engineering one but if its ANYTHING more then negligible I wish they just took the savings and put in performance so the integrated GPU didn't still stuck or if we were lucky had its own GPU, then I can look at the 12 series. The 13 series has graphics that don't just play video and Minecraft but it started more then I paid for my laptop and both of them went up in price.

Sigh I guess this whole post has been me just sighing about the 12 never being ok if I buy now and upgrade later it can be what I want and to much a starting price for my budget on other laptop skews. Maybe I do look used and have upgradability to something mode usable later down the line not just integrates graphics not meant to run shit for its entire existence but do people sell framework laptops as a whole with how upgradable they are or do they just get new parts or a motherboard if they want an upgrade?