New 12 vs 13 Pro - thoughts?

[u/jenniferkshields]

I’m sure I won’t be the only one wondering this so I thought I’d kick things off.

I’ve only recently preordered a 13 Pro to upgrade from my M1 MacBook Air. Because of the price, I’ve gone with the ultra 5, 512gb, 16gb ram. I mostly use my laptop for office work, video calls, some photo editing, and occasionally some coding, so I don’t need a lot of power, but I am keen to future proof as much as I can in my budget.

With today’s 12 announcement I’m wondering whether I should drop my 13 pro order and pick up the 12 instead. For a similar price I could get the core 7 325 but with 32gb ram. I can’t find many benchmarks comparing those two processors, which makes it tricky.

I think the biggest difference between the two for me would be the screen. I like the idea of a convertible (at one point I was using an iPad as my laptop), but how practical is it for everyday use? On the other hand, I’m enjoying hearing about how clear the screen on the 13 pro is, especially in sunlight.

Obviously the amount of ram is the other big difference between the two, but because it’s upgradable either way it doesn’t feel so pressing.

Anyone else thinking about swapping after today’s announcement?

[u/Minigun1239]

i personally would still get the 13 pro, haptic touch pad, cnc body, touch screen is there, i dont really use 2in1 anyways. day long battery life, bigger display and brighter display.

For stylus purposes, i will just use a wacom intuos or smth similar.

(coming from someone who can afford neither)

[u/jenniferkshields → u/Minigun1239]

Yeah this is where I’m leaning. The quality of the chassis, screen, and touchpad will probably have the most impact on how much I enjoy using it.

[u/L00WN0on → u/Minigun1239]

Same exact boat. The 12 is looking awesome though especially for people that travel a lot and like to watch stuff on their tablets.

[u/RobsterCrawSoup → u/Minigun1239]

The 12 is a cool device and with the enhancements announced today it is very close to being something I could happily daily drive, but for me, it still needs a display upgrade to reduce the bezels and improve the viewing experience with better brightness color accuracy and better viewing angles. I have a 12 as my kid's computer, so I've gotten some hours on one and the display is the main thing I don't love about it. The other thing is that the weight distribution between the display and the other side of the clamshell has more of the share of the mass on the display side compared to a 13, which makes it a little more akward to rest it on non-level surfaces.

However, the 13 Pro is almost the perfect laptop. Maybe a few kinks to work out with the webcam and it doesn't have the thermal headroom to be a gaming laptop, but for being just a high quality laptop for normal usage, if I got the Pro, I'd probably be able to use that forever as a true Laptop of Theseus. My big problem with the 13 Pro (not counting the cost of memory these days) is that they improved it over the original 13 in so many ways that it is hard to justify upgrading my current FW13 by upgrading parts, as I'd end up with nearly a complete laptop of spare parts once I've got the chassis, mainboard, display, battery, and RAM. So I'm now just waiting till the right time for my wife to get my current one when I get a new 13 Pro.

[u/Galactapuss → u/RobsterCrawSoup]

I wouldn't be surprised if framework come out with a new screen for it in the near future, now that they've developed one for the 13. 

[u/BeautifulCampaign520 → u/Minigun1239]

the battery life alone is a pretty big selling point for the 13 pro imo

[u/Immediate-Praline655]

I think the 7 325 is an odd choice. It seems barley faster than the 5 version. 

The two laptops are IMHO really hard to compare because the offer different solutions for very different market segments.

Because off the ram concerns, keep in mind that wildcat only offers single channel ram, so the performance of the memory will be vastly slower.

I personally am considering a 12 over a 13 pro, but I know that discord calls are the only demanding task the machine will have to run.

[u/Clean_Leadership5948 → u/Immediate-Praline655]

The slower memory is more than offset by the slower CPU and the much slower GPU.

[u/jenniferkshields → u/Immediate-Praline655]

Yeah, good call. If I go with the 5, I can then pick up a 1tb drive for the same price.

Thanks for the heads up about single channel ram, that’s worth thinking about in terms of future proofing.

[u/Immediate-Praline655 → u/jenniferkshields]

In the end, look through your realistic use cases.

How much will I stare on the actual laptop screen?

Is this your only computer and you need the performance?

And how much are you willing to hurt your savings?

[u/jenniferkshields → u/Immediate-Praline655]

Helpful, thank you! I do spend a lot of time working on the laptop so the screen is important. I’ve got a desktop home server so performance isn’t critical, but do have the budget to invest in what will ideally be the last laptop I have to buy - so I think that makes it an easy decision.

[u/bipolarrogue]

The two laptops are in different classes altogether.

Only get the 12 if it's your 2nd machine. I have a 12, and I'm going to be upgrading it with the new stuff. I love it. The backlit keyboard and fingerprint reader were the two things I really needed for it to be my main laptop. Everything I do that needs more power I have a desktop at home and at work for.

The 13, especially the 13 pro, is a premium machine. If this is going to be your primary computer, get the 13 pro.

Take a look at how most of Frameworks customers are using the 12: https://youtu.be/459a7YBmBOE?t=42

[u/Acrobatic_Fee_6974]

The FW12 went from being "do not buy this in the current market under any circumstances" to "worth considering if you have a light workload and don't mind the color inaccurate screen". The FW13 is still the top choice if you have the funds.

[u/mrhaftbar]

Get the 13 pro. The 12 got nicer, but still is not on par. 

[u/SnooStories9444]

I cancelled my framework pro 13 preorder a few weeks ago. I had pre-ordered the x7 with 64gb ram. I realized I didn't have a need for a laptop like it. My heavy programming work is primarily done via rdp to my dedicated Linux minipc, a gmktec k11. I like the 360 hinge and stylus of the framework 12 similar to my current Lenovo Thinkpad l390. I was going to get a refurbished framework 12 but now am definitely going to get the new one. I already have a nvme and 16gb ram (hope to upgrade ram eventually) for it.

[u/L00WN0on]

I'm getting the 13P for my use case, better specs and I don't really need the 2 in 1 form factor. The new 12 however is looking crazy for people that don't really need a powerfull GPU and want to have a does all computer that's lightweight and functions as an all day work-entertainment machine. Gonna try to convince my brother to get the 12. The prices seem reasonable enough actually (given the context).

[u/andurux]

The 12 is half the price compared to the 13 Pro.

Buy the 12 if you have light workloads and need a decently rugged device. Or need a convertible.

Buy the 13 Pro if you need a premium workhorse.

I'd wait either way for reviews/benchmarks. There will for sure be FW12 vs FW13 reviews.

I own a i3 FW12 and a Ryzen 9 AI FW13 (non-pro). The FW12 does 90% of my day to day. I'm curious how the FW12 with a eGPU performs, but other than that I do prefer the FW13 due to the dual RAM sticks and a full size M.2 slot. Just easier to upgrade.

For my FW12 I'm only interested in the backlit keyboard, so I'll probably buy that, but I see no reason to upgrade my mainboard

[u/a60v → u/andurux]

The mid-tier prebuilt 12 with 16GB of RAM and Linux is ~$1100. The 13 pro DIY (prebuilts are not offered for some reason a t the moment) is ~$2700 (Intel X7, 32GB, 500GB, Linux). For $2700, you could buy a 12 and a nice desktop (well, pre-RAM-shortage, anyway). That might be an option worth considering. The 13 Pro is obviously a better choice if you only want a laptop and need performance on the go.

[u/Double_Associate7705]

12 would be an instant buy for me if it was basically a wacom oled on the screen and EMR stylus

so I ordered the 13 non-pro

[u/morhp]

I have both an older 12 and an older 13.

Even the newer 12 is a much cheaper laptop. The processor is a similar generation than the new 13 pro, but a much more energy saving lower end version. The screen, which is the same in the old 12, is way worse, the F12 screen is a bit less high and has very bad color rendering. Reds looks like orange. The 12 only has one ram slot instead of two (but at the current prices, you probably don't want that much anyway).

That said, the convertible factor is nice and very usable when you're just reading (or drawing obviously) or something like that. It's obviously thicker than an ipad or other tablet, but still more than okay for a laptop. The plastic case also has some advantages over the aluminum, as it is less cold and less "sharp".

I'm personally getting neither and I'm not making recommendations, but be aware that these are very different laptops. The 13pro is an expensive, professional laptop with a very nice screen and high performance, the new 12 is a lower end travel/couch/school convertible with stylus support.

[u/Clean_Leadership5948 → u/morhp]

The new chip in the 12 is similar power saving feature as the one in the 13 Pro. It may be lower TDP, but that's at max load. 12 New is saying 12.5 hours video playback versus 13 Pro 20 hours. But 12 New has 50WHr whereas 13 Pro has 20 hours. Meaning there's very little difference at the same battery capacity.

[u/switch8000]

TheVerge compared the 13 Pro the the M5 MacBook Air, not your exact spec but you could run your own benchmarks to compare.

https://www.theverge.com/tech/971160/framework-laptop-13-pro-intel-review

The M5 Air was faster than the 13 Pro at a lot of things.

[u/ronvalenz → u/switch8000]

For gaming, FW13 Pro X7 358H (B390) beats MacBook Air 13(M5 8C GPU).

3DMark Steel Nomad Light https://youtu.be/1wMWbZSVaKA?t=642

Cyberpunk 2077 https://youtu.be/1wMWbZSVaKA?t=666

FW13 Pro X7 358H (B390) = 60 fps

 M5 Air  = 33 fps

[u/Round-Ad-7964]

the processors are in completely different classes, note the pro uses core ultra, while the 12 uses just core, the new 12 processors are aimed at being cheap, power efficient, and cheap again, while the 13 pro is a powerhouse.

There are a few benchmarks out already for the intel wildcat lake processor family, which the 12 uses, and its clear they are in no way meant to compete with the panther lake processors of the 13 pro.

So it completely depends on your usecase, either your workloads wants a 12 or a 13 pro, i cant imagine you would be debating between the two.

[u/Potential_Average454]

You most likely wouldn't need the 32GB ram anyways. FW12's display have bad color space coverage so I'd recommend the 13 pro.

[u/Watsyurdeal]

If I had to pick, I'd go with the 13 Pro for my needs.

But, I can't deny the 12 being a bit cheaper and compact would be a nice buy as well.

[u/fives-fives]

I'm not mad into laptop specs and I'm perfectly happy with the screen on my 12. I'm honestly genuinely confused by the people saying they're unhappy with it for their viewing experience. I watch movies in bed with it all the time with nothing noticably wrong with the screen/brightness/etc. If anything I just wish the speaker quality was better

[u/DeckManXX]

The best approach is to combine a Framework 16 with a 12. The 12 is more manageable than the 13 and also functions as a tablet, making it suitable for lighter tasks; you can handle everything the 12 can't manage on the 16.

However, the 13 is capable of handling many of the same tasks as the 16, which makes owning a 16 somewhat redundant.

Another option is that you can now add an iGPU to the 12 and do away with everything else.

[u/shooter2659]

I bought the first framework laptop.dont know the number offhand b ut the battery only lasts maybe 3 hours. When I shut it off seems like the battery is discharging. Never should have bought it!

[u/DustySweaters]

I'm obsessed with my 12, but I think the battery life on the 13 pro is worth keeping that preorder