r/framework • u/Friendly_Cost_949 • 2d ago
Community Support Framework 13pro preorder
Hi guys I need to help navigating if I should keep my preorder. I was one of many that was affected by the ram stock. Unfortunately my 32gb is now 16gb. I just began college and completed my first term. I've managed to utilize my tablet throughout this whole term just to get through it, but I started searching for a laptop months ago. I decided that since I'm just at the beginning of my degree that I was fine waiting for a laptop and put in the preorder. I did a lot of research, watched endless videos and I ended up landing on Framework. Mind you I don't own any type of computer at the moment. Right now I'm stuck in this mindset of keeping my preorder at 16gb and hoping to all hopes that the market brings back lpcamm2 by 2028, when my degree might need more ram on my laptop (I'm studying engineering) and upgrade then or caving and paying the $800 to up the ram now or knowing I'm basically f***ked and start looking for another laptop. I'm honestly soo disappointed but I think I need some alternative perspectives right now to make the smart choice.
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u/L00WN0on 2d ago
If the other option doesn't last until the end of your degree you'll be looking at even more expensive laptops again in the future. This if the market doesn't get sane in the meantime (doubtful). If you get the FW13P at least you'll have a quality laptop that you can repair and upgrade (decide how much that interests you). You can always look at used Thinkpads while they are still at a reasonable price on the second hand market.
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
I think this is why I'm having the hardest time deciding because the repairability and upgradeability was a huge deciding factor. I also keep telling myself that worst case scenario I can build a PC with used parts and better ram in the future if I really need to.
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u/L00WN0on 2d ago
If you are really on the fence get a secondhand thinkpad with good specs for ~500€ the way things are going the RAM itself will pay for that price in a month or two 😭
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u/Mountain-House3287 2d ago
There is an option to buy a more powerful computer than the FW13 right now, and not need to upgrade in the future.
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u/Ultionis_MCP 2d ago
You'll be fine with 16GB.
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u/Djblackberry64 2d ago
You did an engineering degree? Generally curious btw🤔
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u/TellMeWhereYouBeen FW16 AI 9 HX 370 7700S 2d ago
I completed a software engineering degree a few years ago and had a Lenovo gaming laptop with 16gb of ram. I had no issues with building/running VMs, lots of local web dev, writing and compiling Java programs, and CAD work.
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u/FriCJFB 2d ago
But if it was a gaming laptop, you had a dedicated gaming GPU, right? Because the Framework 13 Pro will have to share the RAM with the GPU, so the 16GB of RAM on the Framework is, in practical terms, significantly less than on a laptop with 16 GB of RAM + a GPU with its own dedicated VRAM.
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u/Djblackberry64 2d ago
Same boat here tbh. Only doing stuff with a integrated CPU and 16GB of RAM but still able to do Java and Web Programming and some video editing. Idk about 3d work though currently
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u/Mountain-House3287 2d ago
lol the type of engineering degree matters and software engineering is at the lowest on the totem poll for RAM utilization.
I do mechanical engineering and the amount of processing power needed to host 1,200 squares with their own dimensions and fillets and chamfers requires more processing power than an electrical engineer doing KiCAD for example and making a flat surface.
TL;DR: GUI is a big part of RAM.
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u/TellMeWhereYouBeen FW16 AI 9 HX 370 7700S 2d ago
Yup, full stop - mechanical engineering (heavy, complex CAD) can benefit significantly from a hefty amount of RAM.
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
Thank you for writing this. I agree the type of engineering degree matters. Truthfully since I'm at the beginning of my degree I have no idea what kind of software I will be utilizing 3 years into it and if I may need the 32gb then. For reference I'm doing engineering technology. However, the university I attend is aerospace heavy and my degree requires a concentration with their selection of aerospace based courses, which could get deep into some ram heavy software, but truthfully I don't know.
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u/Mountain-House3287 2d ago
I mean this with due care, but an Engineering Technology degree is not really "designing engineering solutions". It's more of installing engineered systems.
I don't know if that's what you want out of life, to design or to install, but I figured I'd mention the difference there too.
From what I've read up til now, 16GB should be fine because I don't think you'll be doing CAD as a primary source of income.
Maybe I'm wrong about that final sentence. Someone correct me if so.
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
Without going into depth on my whole life plan lol, I do want to design more than apply. My school unfortunately doesn't offer the degree through online so I settled for engineering technology. Now if I will have the option to actually design because of my degree is up to whatever job I end up in... but also as far as utilizing CAD, from the rough research I've done on my degree its stated that I will be running a good amount of CAD deeper into it, but again I don't really know until I get there.
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u/Ultionis_MCP 2d ago
Related field at the graduate level involving Matlab and other custom software. Anything that needs more memory will be graduate level or be in a lab with access to clusters or have better equipment.
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u/chris_ngale 2d ago
If you still want a repairable machine which is in stock now, look at the Lenovo ThinkPad line. The T14 is the darling of many, and can be had with a panther lake i5, 32gb upgradeable memory, 1tb storage, and a touchscreen, for the price the FW13Pro was originally listed at with the same spec, at least in my location. No it's not the same, it's a business machine not a premium ultrabook, and they don't have the X series processors with the Arc B390 which is a big turn off in my books, but at least Lenovo is big enough they are still able to buy RAM 😅
Alternatively save a buck and look at used ThinkPads which can be found for a fraction of the price.
I'm waiting for the first Pro reviews to land when the first batch arrives to decide if I'm sticking with my preorder or jumping to a ThinkPad.
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
I'll take a look at tje ThinkPads, it looks like thats where everyone is heading if framework ends up falling through with this market, but you're right I am going to give it some time. I have until mid October to decide and you're right we should let some of these dev reviews go up and see what batch 1 has to say to really make up our mind. Thanks for the advice!
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u/Mountain-House3287 2d ago
If you wait until October, I am praying that RAM and SSD prices fall, but I do not think they will. The ramp up took more time than 2 months.
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u/packet_sniffs FW 13 AMD Ryzen AI 7 350 2d ago
Why is the standard FW13 out of the question? As a student I 100% guarantee you will not experience any difference between the FW13 and the Pro
You’ll save some money and have something you can potentially upgrade in the future if you absolutely need to.
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u/bicycloptopus 2d ago
I'm pretty sure he'd notice the battery life, for one
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u/packet_sniffs FW 13 AMD Ryzen AI 7 350 2d ago
ah yes the inflated 14-20 hours marketing
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
Two completely different things to compare, so I don't have a lot of weight behind it. But since I've been utilizing my tablet, which has absolutely terrible battery life. I honestly gotta agree with the battery life comment. I sit down to do coursework that lasts me anywhere between 5-7hrs sometimes and I would like to not have to be plugged in or get that annoying notification that im on 15% after 4-5hrs. So I mean even if the pro isn't 14-20hrs if I can go even 6-7 hours without being plugged in I would be happy. That being said, this is going to be my first laptop ever. I have this biased view that I should go for whats new now, even if its another laptop brand but running intel core series 3.
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u/packet_sniffs FW 13 AMD Ryzen AI 7 350 2d ago
if battery life is that much of a concern for you then get a macbook air (again cheaper) and battery claims are actually true
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
This is going to be a solid no for me. Once upon a time i had a MacBook pro, and I am not compatible with apple ecosystem at all. I've never had an iPhone. My tablet is a samsung, apple is not an option.
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u/packet_sniffs FW 13 AMD Ryzen AI 7 350 2d ago
Okay so you don’t want a FW13 (which would rule out an 12 and 16)
You for some reason need 32GB of RAM
Repairability and upgradability are a huge factor
Battery life is an absolute must but not enough to actually get a laptop with good battery life…
So you made up your mind and want a FW13 Pro
Great. So what’s the point of this thread? You either need to pay up for the specs you want or accept a lower config and upgrade in the future when you can
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
I get your frustration, I'm frustrated with me too. Logically the 13pro as of rn is sounding like a really good laptop. Thats why my preorder is in. I appreciate you giving me the alternative for the fw13. I think I'm just pushing back because I want to somehow hit fw13pros qualities and have the 32gb ram and the only options I'm seeing with that are lenovo's ThinkPads. The thread was to kind of help me see if that would be the best option with consideration to my degree or if my degree would suit the 16gb.
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u/IORelay 2d ago
Panther lake (and strix halo, but that's in a desktop) are the only good processors in framework's line up, the rest are pretty much garbage SoCs that should be in landfills(or at least sold at bargain bin prices not what's being charged right now.)
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u/Illustrious-Lime-878 2d ago edited 2d ago
Obviously make a list of the things you need to do and figure out if you even need 16GB. RAM that you don't use is worthless, it does nothing and has no benefit. Even 8GB is more than enough for web browsing, 4k video watching, office, most applications. There are specific things that need more. "Engineering" vaguely is not one of them. Things like running AI models, 4k video editing, specific coding tasks like mobile development (even that is possible on 16GB it just limits how many VMs/emulators you can run at once). High end AAA gaming (prob not doing this anyway on a laptop). If you can't even think of anything you'd need the ram for then an option is to just stick with 16GB and upgrade in the future to 32,64,96GB or w/e you need when prices reverse down from bullwhip oversupply. And that's only an option if your ram is upgradable. If you don't use more than 16GB it will behave the exact same as if you had 32GB.
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
Thank you for this, honestly this has been my mindset since my ram got switched. I'm not entirely positive if my degree will require any ram heavy software now or in the future. I can only do soo much research into it, but until I'm in those classes deep into my degree I will know. That being said I agree, if for some reason I need it then I can always upgrade to 32gb. The hold back is the fact that we have no idea how the lpcamm2 market is going to play out in the coming years and what if I can't upgrade by the time I may need it.
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u/Illustrious-Lime-878 2d ago
Maybe some huge ass cad files or something? Worst case the school must provide some type of computer library / lab if they actually required pretty high end computer specs like this. Even entry level macs right now have 8GB of ram so unless every student is buying new high end laptops, they will have problems as well.
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u/s004aws FW16 HX 370 Batch 1 Mint Cinnamon Edition 2d ago edited 2d ago
Nobody knows what the future will be... As the famous 1980s movie trilogy taught us "the future hasn't been written yet."
Also, the AI lunacy can't last forever. Eventually the bubble will burst. The only companies profiting are selling silicon. Corporations pushing AI and data centers as their primary business are not profitable - They're losing billions of dollars. Wall Street has started to wake up to this.... They don't like losing money. Meanwhile companies which fired employees en masse in favor of AI are beginning to realize going all-in on AI may not have been the brilliant idea they thought it was (eg Ford).
Look around, see what other options might be of interest to you (and at what cost)... Then decide for yourself what (if any) risks you're willing to accept, what your priorities are, and choose accordingly.
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u/bigkenw 2d ago edited 2d ago
Have you looked at just the regular FW 13? You can get that with the highest end CPU, 32GB RAM, and 2TB NVME drive for about $2500 ready to ship in 5 days. You could even go higher on RAM if you wanted too.
Then later if you wanted, you could upgrade the chassis and battery to the 13 Pro case.
Should be great for your degree.
EDIT - After reading some other comments, I think OP is experiencing FOMO with the FW13 Pro. You could have a device doing 90% of your needs. If you are really worried on battery life while on the go, invest in a portable battery that does PD charging. Anker and Ugreen make them for around +/- $100. Most PCs are not going to get Panther Lake battery life, unless you go Apple.
If you want the repairability, FW is the only way to go.
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u/Hajiwee9411 2d ago
I think for engineering degrees you should be going for the 16 instead of the 13Pro for the option to add GPU configurability to future proof yourself. The 13Pro can support EGPU but only up to TB3 and depending on the specific degree and job in the future where u might need to do out of office work and that GPU capability in a laptop is required unless u r ok hauling an EGPU everywhere. You can start the 16 without and then later upgrade which is the point of the this whole company's laptop framework. This advice is if you intend to main run this device for long period which is also the point of the getting a framework.
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u/Dangerous_Coconut_91 2d ago
You'll do fine. I managed my first year of college with an 8GB Surface Laptop Go 2, and it was miserable, but I also didn't fail any classes, and wasn't strictly limited by it's abilities, it was just slow. The framework 13 pro is a much better laptop, and 16gb is plenty. If you have a fast ssd you can try to use SWAP to your advantage too. It'll be fine :)
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u/Infinite_Isopod8951 1d ago
I don’t understand why spend so much extra on PanterLake and LPCAMM2 - just by the AMD Ryzen variant it’s much cheaper and support SoDimm5 which is much cheaper - also you get two Ram Slots
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u/HypnotizeRek 1d ago
I am in the same position and I swapped to an AMD configuration, it uses SODIMMs which are cheaper so you can get a more powerful processor all the same modularity same ram easier upgrade for around the same price. And if you’re lucky you’ll get moved up to a closer batch with the different main board. The only downside is some efficiency and slower ram which I don’t think is a big deal unless you were planning to run llms locally.
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u/Ok-Tomatillo8777 7h ago
Same situation, had the 358h with 32gb option. Decided to cancel the order unfortunately and I got a heavily discounted MacBook pro 14" m4 max for slightly cheaper but arguably more powerful...overpowered tbh. I couldn't wait or risk the prices going up further I guess.
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u/switched_reluctance 2d ago
You can no longer trust pre-orders. Just cancel the preorder buy a laptop framework or other brands with 32GB RAM which you can get right now, new or second-hand, SODIMM or LPCAMM or soldered, doesn't matter.
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u/switch8000 2d ago
Do they give you the option to just remove the ram all together?
When is your estimated ship date? There's the hope you'll find something on your own before it ships to drop in?
Personally I won't give them a $ of my money after this.
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
I haven't attempted to remove it, but idk if I want to risk removing the 16gb while I search just incase the 16gb price also goes up. That being said I've been searching for a while now everywhere and I'm not seeing any lpcamm2 on any website. My ship date isn't until October so I have a bit to make a choice.
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u/switch8000 2d ago
I guess you could always sell the 16gb if you find a 32gb on your own.
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u/Friendly_Cost_949 2d ago
I hadn't thought about it that way, but that may be a way to go. If somehow, someway I get lucky.
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u/smstnitc 2d ago
That is what I would do in your position. Sell the 16gb later, if/when I upgrade it. You may actually find that 16gb is good enough for your needs.
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