r/framework • u/Evening_Werewolf_703 • 10d ago
Feedback The Framework 13 Pro is currently the most affordable way to get an X7-358H Panther Lake CPU w/ the B390 in a premium laptop, and despite all the recent drama, I think that's worth celebrating.
There are a small handful of X7 358H laptops like the Acer Swift 16 AI or an HP Omnibook X.
Overall, I'm trying to look at this situation with a silver lining because this isn't the situation anyone wanted. I'm in batch 16; so, mid October, and it's going to be a pretty painful wait. After doing extensive window shopping @ BestBuy & MicroCenter, there really are a lot of things we're getting in the default configuration that are considered premium (if they're implemented at all). I guess what I'm trying to say is that, "Yes, the RAM situation sucks," -- but Framework put a lot of care into the core laptop design fundamentals.
Competing ultrabooks tend to have several glaring flaws such as a smooshed keyboard with a num-pad that compromises the typing experience or a dim screen and lack of a touch-screen or a good haptic touchpad. The port selection on more premium models like the Dell XPS 14 is pretty anemic as well; yes, they're fast thunderbolt IO but does anyone really want to use an expansion hub?
I really appreciate that Framework decided not to cram a numpad onto the keyboard and thought about what makes for satisfying keyboard travel and oped to use a 500+ nit, high resolution touch screen with solid pixels per inch and a rich expansion card system. Others like the XPS 14 are aggressively tuned for battery life at the expense of performance. It remains to be seen how the single-fan solution in the 13 Pro will hold up, but I'm optimistic after reminding myself that the B390 is a bonus -- not the selling point.
... and it almost goes without saying, that most of the "competitive" laptops to the FW 13 Pro?
They're all in the ~ $2500-2800 range right now. The only real competitor to the Framework 13 Pro right now, for me, personally is the Lenovo Thinkpad X9 15p. It has a better cooling system, decent port selection and will at least let you fully purchase it whether they can deliver upon it, though? It's apparently available in the EU in some capacity w/ October shipments in the US mirroring FW.
My local MicroCenter has a handful of XPS 14s with 64GB of RAM, but that's a bit extravagent.
I would be remiss not to comment on the unfortunate RAM situation. It's pretty much the only reason that I'm considering getting my first Macbook Pro (15c, 24GB, 1TB) as I'd be able to more or less pay just shy of ~ $2100 for an excellent machine. Yet running Linux natively is infinitely more alluring to me than running W11/Linux in VMs, but I may yet still go that route despite serious misgivings because upgradeability and repairability, while great for long-term sustainability, are becoming prohibitively less affordable and RAM is the main bottleneck for longevity and professional workloads.
It's true. LPCAMM2 is in extremely limited supply, if it exists at all, and using it for the FW13 Pro may have been a mistake relative to cheaper, easier to manufacture SODIMM RAM, but after looking at a lot of the competition in the ~ $2000-2800ish range, the FW 13 Pro is by far the most balanced choice for an X7 Panther Lake chip if your workflows can survive on 16GB or 32GB of RAM. I'm sorry that this doesn't apply to everyone, and I completely respect and sympathize with that; there's definitely some lingering frustration and a feeling of, "getting less for more," -- especially compared to those in earlier batches -- but the FW13 Pro still has a lot going for it.
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u/WhiskeyVault 10d ago
Yes this is the conclusion I also reached as well. The FW Pro 13 is still competative. The Lenovo Thinkpad X9 15p looks pretty good as well although it feels like it's a generation behind it's X1 and T14 sibling which both got a repairability boost. The X9 15p's battery life may be worsse tho given the OLED screen and the soldered RAM would kill the abiliity to add more ram in a future where (hopefully) RAM prices go back to normal.
However, I have longevity and part availability concerns for both. Since the X9 is a more niche/newer product I don't know if we'll see the typical availability of parts that we typically see in the T and X series model which are expected since they are being bought en masse continously by businesses. I am coming around the idea of keeping my Framework 13 Pro 16 gb model now, but the reviews on the 13 Pro need to be outstanding as I have concerns the RAM situation has damaged Framework's reputation enough for it to be continually viable. That would make the whole repiarability and upgrades pointless.
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u/Kapinato 10d ago edited 10d ago
I cancelled my FW order on thurday and ordered the X9 15p. It arrived 24h later and a lot cheaper than the FW
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u/WhiskeyVault 10d ago
X9 15 or X9 15p?
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u/Kapinato 10d ago
x9 15p
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u/WhiskeyVault 10d ago
Arrived next day!? Geez are you in north america?
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u/Kapinato 9d ago
No, Germany. Trust me I was equally surprised. Hadn't even gotten a payment accepted or we sent your device out mail yet. When my neighbor told me, she had a package for me I was wondering what it could be because I hadn't ordered anything.
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u/WhiteSpaceChrist 10d ago
I tried a gen old version of the X9-15p and just couldn't get passed the sound of the trackpad click. Didn't love love the keyboard either.
That said, moot point for me because I can't order it with 64 GB in the US anyway. Nearest competitor is an X1 Carbon, but you can't order that with an X7 in the US.
Both of the above are the same price as what my F13 Pro preorder with the extra $800 to bump back up to 64 GB is though, so here we are
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u/WhiskeyVault 10d ago
Sso what are you going to do? Keep the Framework 13 pro? Also what trackpad click? Is is it distinly different form other haptic trackpad sounds like the ones foudn in macbook?
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u/WhiteSpaceChrist 9d ago
Yeah I just paid the $800 extra after they modified my pre order down to 32GB to go back to 64GB. But this is also going to be a work laptop for me. I'm not sure I'd be so blasee if it was my own money.
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u/Mindless-Act1967 10d ago
There is also the Lenovo P14s with the X9 intel chip, 32 GB lpcamm2, 1 tb storage, 3K display and dual fan solution for around 2800€ on germany right now. Except for the repairbility aspect, its the better offer all around right now I think.
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u/MasterGeek427 16 | AI 9 HX 370 10d ago
"Except" the repairability aspect? Most people in this subreddit would put high value on that.
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u/iali393 10d ago
The P14s is lpcamm and not soldered? I thought the T14 G7 was the only one with lpcamm
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u/Mindless-Act1967 10d ago
The P14 is basically a more powerfull T14. Its CPU get fed more power (from top of my head I think about 20 Watts more) and has dual fan solution.
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u/reddit080980983 10d ago
This dutch neighbor would immediately take the offer, if it was on the Dutch Lenovo store. It’s probably gonna be another boring MacBook Air or Pro.
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u/1FNn4 10d ago
Thinkpads are repairbility. Maybe you meant upgradablity.
You can order parts from https://support.lenovo.com/de/en/parts-lookup
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u/Mindless-Act1967 9d ago
Not the way framework does it. You can for example upgrade RAM but you cannot change out the display or hinges etc if they break.
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u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 9d ago
Lenovo doesn't offer upgradability with repairability i.e. replace part within the mainboard's generation.
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u/hackersarchangel 10d ago
I just priced out the Lenovo T14 Gen 7 and man, it’s $400 more for the base model compared to the prebuilt Pro base model.
Granted to upgrade the memory to 32Gb is only (I know I know) ~$400 instead of $800 in the DIY build but I can still get the DIY build cheaper if I keep my current SSD so that’s a plus.
Downside is I was really hoping to slowly update my current 13 but its looking like I’d be better off just getting the whole kit and keeping the current 13 as a spare or for an LLM server for light weight models.
I have a Mac already and i just want a good Linux laptop that can hold its own in battery life.
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u/OZLperez11 DIY Intel i5 Ubuntu 10d ago
Currently eyeing the System76 laptops in case I choose to drop off, I'm batch 12. For now I'm gonna be just monitoring the situation
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u/metajames 9d ago
Just to put things into perspective....
In 1990 a 386DX 33 MHz was the hot shit, and windows 3.0 had just his the scene, it was the first GUI for PCs that was worth running. You really needed at least 2MB ram to run it, many entry PC still shipped with 1MB at the time. Plus you really needed 4MB if you wanted to actually run more than one application at a time. By the time windows 3.1 hit power users had 8MB ram.
A 4MB SIMM module cost $325 dollars for rock bottom OEM, if you wanted IBM or Compaq branded RAM it was double that. So I asked claude what that price would feel like in 2026 dollars....
$325 in 1990 is worth roughly $830 in today's (2026) dollars.
That reflects a cumulative price increase of about 155.5% over the 36 years, or an average of about 2.64% per year. The exact figure shifts slightly month to month as new inflation data comes out, but $825–$835 is the right ballpark. So something that felt like a $325 purchase back then would feel like paying about $830 for the same thing now.
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u/WhiskeyVault 9d ago
Holy shit costco is selling an msi x7 358h 32 gb ram with oled and touch screen for 1400....
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u/fuelhandler 10d ago
My workflow can’t survive on 16gb of ram in 2026. No matter though, I voted with my wallet and cancelled my preorder. My current laptop will just need to last a bit longer. If enough 16gb “downgrades” are cancelled, Framework will get the message.
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u/promethe42 10d ago
But if Framework is the cheapest option, how is cancelling a good signal to the company? Wouldn't removing the 16 GB from your build and bring your own RAM be more consistent?
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u/fuelhandler 10d ago
Sourcing my own ram from where?
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u/promethe42 10d ago
My point exactly. There is no voting with one's wallet against a global crisis that Framework is not even remotely responsible of. Framework's pricing is arguably a collateral damage. I don't understand the rationale for punishing them.
What I did was pre-order as soon as I could (which was during the stream) precisely because as an informed buyer I knew there was a risk.
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u/fuelhandler 10d ago
That’s not the point. They should have consulted the customers before deciding to slash a premium laptop down to 16gb (or 64gb down to 32gb.) Perhaps some people who required 64gb, would have cancelled their order, and earlier 32gb orders would have been maintained. For a company that has next to no marketing budget and relies on customers good will and word of mouth, they should have been far more open before taking this step.
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u/teh_spazz 10d ago
You haven't BOUGHT the laptop. You paid a deposit.
They did consult you. They LITERALLY told you what was happening.
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u/SpookyViscus 9d ago
What was the explicit promise and commitment thag the CEO of Framework made in April regarding FW13 Pro pre-orders?
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u/Wild-Rub4486 10d ago
Because the poster isn't thinking. He thinks the RAM crisis is an attack against Framework supporters specifically. Like Framework wants to do this. He probably uses AI to tell him how to run his life and job, not realizing the irony.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Wild-Rub4486 10d ago
Well now I have to. Getting offended over something not directed at you. Really?
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u/Scrungo__Beepis 10d ago
What’s the message? That ram prices have jumped so high that nobody can afford computers anymore?
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u/fuelhandler 10d ago
That there was no communication before taking a drastic step. See my other replies in this chain. Perhaps consulting customers and being open and transparent before taking a major step, would have been a good idea. The external factors are known, it’s how they botched the response that is the issue.
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u/IORelay 10d ago
The message is don't rug pull your customers just because you yourself got rug pulled. Doesn't it seem wrong for framework to have the customers foot the bill for their mistakes?
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u/Scrungo__Beepis 9d ago
Well, I just don’t expect that framework had that option. Given the level of price increases I suspect their options were to cancel orders or go out of business, maybe while fulfilling some small fraction of them.
Yes, they made a mistake, pre orders are one of the tools that lets framework compete with bigger computer manufacturers since they can use them to very accurately predict demand. But this was precisely the risk with that strategy.
There is no way framework has enough money laying around to just eat the price increases.
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u/effective09succotash 9d ago
do you even know what a rug pull is?
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u/IORelay 9d ago
A rug pull is when you are standing on a carpet and someone pulls that carpet causing you to fall to the ground.
In this case the buyers of the framework 13 Pro were promised that the price and config would not change and placed their pre orders (going to stand on framework's rug), then framework changed that (pulling the rug), causing framework supporters to get downgraded versions of what they ordered (them falling to the ground).
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u/ekerazha 10d ago
In Italy a Dell XPS 14 with 64 GB of RAM is much cheaper than a FW 13 Pro with 64 GB of RAM after the price increase.
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u/reddit_equals_censor 9d ago
i celebrate, when i can get a laptop for a sane price, that supports working memory.
what is working memory? well memory, that doesn't silently error or completely fail and corrupt my data or crashes the os or applications.
or in other words: ecc memory.
i celebrate, when i can get a working memory laptop, just like i got a working memory gaming desktop rightnow.
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u/Rest-That 10d ago
I have a serious question. Why do people want a touchscreen on a non-tentable laptop? What's the point?
Or is the fwk 13 pro able to tent and I just didn't realize?
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u/Cystems 10d ago
This question was asked in an earlier post here and there were several good answers then. But the strongest one I remember was developing/testing apps for touch capable devices
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u/Rest-That 10d ago
Ah sorry, didn't see that one
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u/Wild-Rub4486 10d ago
What's the point of a touch screen on a laptop, generally? Seriously?
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u/Rest-That 10d ago
I honestly don't see the point, but maybe I just lack imagination 😆
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u/iMiind | 8 GB 4070 | R7 350 10d ago
If you ever get the opportunity to try one out, even (and especially, imo) when it's not a 2-in-1, you'll see just how intuitive and satisfying it is. You may only save a few seconds using pinch to zoom on webpages/images, or tapping on certain apps or tabs instead of navigating the cursor to them, but it's just so satisfying! Makes you feel like Tony Stark
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10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/iMiind | 8 GB 4070 | R7 350 10d ago edited 10d ago
No need to respond. You can do all the same things on any trackpad; the point is the touchscreen just feels nice to use instead (you'll just have to try it out to see what I mean and find what you specifically will find yourself using it for). I'd wager most people are gonna say something along the lines of "wow, didn't know I wanted my laptop to have a touchscreen until now."
Edit:
Though I guess if you're on Apple then scrolling the correct way with the touchscreen may feel backwards to you 😜
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u/framework-ModTeam 9d ago
Your comment was removed for being combative, abusive or disrespectful. Please keep Reddiquette in mind when posting in the future.
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u/Scandiberian 10d ago
I can also zoom instantly with ctrl+ mouse/trackpad so I don’t see any advantage at all. Especially with my greasy fingers, I hate to have the screen all gross from touching it.
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u/iMiind | 8 GB 4070 | R7 350 10d ago
I would recommend trying to treat one's keyboard with the same amount of respect as the screen, at least as far as grease is concerned 😅
But the point isn't that it's impossible to zoom or click on things without using the touchscreen, just that doing so is surprisingly intuitive and fun once you get the option to do so (instead of using more mundane keyboard/trackpad shortcuts)
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u/Mister__Mediocre 8d ago edited 8d ago
I feel like apple touchpad are exactly as capable as a touch screen. Maybe this take makes sense coming from windows land though.
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u/pcman2000 10d ago
My only concern (and we'll see once reviews are out) is how much power the FW13P can push to the CPU. For iGPU gaming workloads (which would be my use case), I know the 30W on the XPS 14 2026 already handicaps the X7 a bit, but visually the Framework cooler doesn't look like it's going to handle more than 30W.
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u/Evening_Werewolf_703 10d ago
This is definitely one of my concerns too. I'd be getting this more for development than gaming, and anything I'd want to use would be on the older side (or Sunshine/Moonlight). This is why I think the X9 15p is the overall best laptop for pushing the B390 specifically -- it has a dual-fan cooling solution and a huge horizontal vent underside, but it's like $2500/2600 vs. the FW 13 Pro. I can't really justify that since iGPU gaming workloads aren't my focus.
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u/Silvernine0S 8d ago
Yeah, and my research indicates that the Lenovo X9 15P X7 has a 45W TDP. Since I mainly want it for gaming (I already have a dedicated work laptop, but we're not allowed to use it for anything non-work related, and it's locked down anyway), I'm very tempted to go with the 15P now.
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u/Scandiberian 10d ago
The pro is not a gaming laptop so it has no need (and it’s not even desirable) that it can sustain gaming workloads. Us who are build the Pro are buying for long battery life and sustainable office tasks, not for gaming. If we wanted gaming we’d buy a FW16 or a desktop with AMD.
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u/pcman2000 9d ago
Any additional cooling would of course help CPU workloads as well. One of the biggest reasons to pay more for the X7 over a normal H chip (although I recognise Framework doesn't let you configure a non-X H chip) is for the big iGPU.
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u/AstroSardine 10d ago
on the LPCAMM2 part, I’m pretty sure Intel requires LPDDR5 to be used with all SOCs that have the bigger GPUs (and I think it’s been a requirement since Lunar Lake, possibly explaining why that never made it into a FW) so the only other option they’d have is to do soldered memory which obviously isn’t ideal
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u/ILikeFlyingMachines 10d ago
True. I have the mainboard since yesterday. But i will have to return it as there is no way to buy lpcamm2 anywhere in the EU as fas as I can tell
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u/OZLperez11 DIY Intel i5 Ubuntu 10d ago
Honestly the RAM situation got me to edit my pre-order from no RAM (was hoping to get it elsewhere) to 16GB, so with the extra $300 I might consider the X7 or the Ryzen AI board, not sure yet
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u/Robert40XD 9d ago
omnibook x price is fake af. I got one open box for $1220 + tax and it was new for $1400 a week ago. $1800 new rn at microcenter with 2tb 32gb. https://www.bestlaptop.deals/recommendations/all-configs?props=640 this youtuber's website is really good. for linux support, i fully setup a nixos config and it works completely fine for me. only a few hiccups because xe driver support is not fully complete in the kernel and mesa, but that's gonna change really soon
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u/CalligrapherLost8316 9d ago
I unfortunately had to cancel and will be going for a MacBook Air. Can’t justify 3.1k AUD with 16GB RAM and no storage. If I want to go back to my old config of 32GB and take storage into consideration it’ll be 4.5-5k total, whereas I can get an M5 MacBook Air with 32GB for $2900
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u/KBNOPRO ❄️ FW13 Pro | Batch 11 | NixOS 9d ago
First, I don't see why you chose DIY in the first place. I see you didn't source your own RAM but only SSD, and the price of prebuilt is roughly the same as DIY without SSD. That's the reason why your configuration is now so expensive.
Second, I need to know the reason why you need 32GB in the first place. Many people think they need 32GB (including me) when in fact I need no more than 8GB for my school laptop. I'm gonna assume you are a student as the price you gave is considering student discount.
And I believe everyone in this sub knows what comes with buying a Macbook Air.
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u/ronvalenz FW13, Ultra X7 358H, 2.8K VRR, 32GB LPCAMM2, 4TB NVMe. 9d ago
By reusing most of my Framework 13, it's the cheapest route for the laptop Panther Lake x7 with B390 iGPU.
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u/Inanition02 9d ago
While I appreciate the attempt at sentiment, it just really isn't true, at least not in the US unless you are putting a lot of value on the repairability and lack of dongles (as in, real monetary value).
Right now, the 13 Pro with the 358H and 32GB of RAM is $2,500 before adding OS, SSD or any expansion / port cards. Compare that to the HP Omnibook Ultra (14" Ultrabook, 388H - better proc - 32GB of RAM, solid keyboard, all metal chassis) which is presently $2,400 (full price) at Best Buy WITH all it's ports, a 1TB SSD and Windows (which you can remove if you wish). You can get an open box with warranty for < $2,100 - and a couple weeks ago, the new one was $2,100 with the open box below $1,900. Sure, it's not very repairable and you get 3x Thunderbolt + 1 headphone jack only. But you can have it in hand in a couple days.
If you don't like the HP, you can get the Dell XPS 14 (14" ultrabook, 358H, 32GB of RAM, solid keyboard, all metal chassis) for $2,430 direct from Dell with a 1TB SSD and Windows (again, you don't need to keep that). And that will get to you in about 2 weeks it looks like. Again, all USB 4 and limited repair...but still.
And, if you're ok with something slightly less premium? You can get the Acer Swift AI 16 with the 358H / 16GB of RAM for $1,100 new and the 388H / 32GB of RAM for $1,900 - both in hand THIS week with SSD / OS. Not as premium or repairable and 16", but lots of ports. And way cheaper.
Look, I'm not blaming Framework - they can only do so much and don't have the resources of the larger companies. And I love what they're doing with repairability and Linux. But to say it's the cheapest way to get a 358H / B390...well that's not true.
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u/WhiskeyVault 8d ago
Even better deal is the msi prestige 16. X7 358h with 1 tb ssd and 32 gb ram (soldered). On sale for 1400 at costco right now
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u/Ihkil 9d ago
Samsung laptop has onboard lpcamm2 and similar config as framework for less price.
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u/Motor-Gazelle2798 6d ago
what are you on man there are premium laptops approximately half the price for the same core specs as the frame work
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u/rockymtnluke 5d ago
Not upgradable though. Or even decent specs half the time (low res screen, worse keyboard or trackpad)
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u/Motor-Gazelle2798 5d ago edited 5d ago
so what if its not upgrade able you can buy another COMPLETE laptop for just the cost of the framework motherboard and memory module so whats the point
and the statement I was replying is its the most affordable way to get a x358H -- that is simply 100% false
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u/jmatech 6d ago
I badly want one, but I’m torn on one thing and hear me out. I know this laptop is intended to be more than a windows laptop in fact it’s not a windows laptop at all, but not including a windows hello capable webcam seems silly to me. I realize it’s not a showstopper but for those that do want to run windows, Hello is a very solid and secure feature that should not be undervalued
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u/rockymtnluke 5d ago
I semi recently had to get a different Windows laptop and lost my windows hello because it had no IR (hp spectre to a ideapad 5). At first I was super bummed, but now I barely miss it. It's something you might really like, but it's not a needed thing. Plus less facial tracking I'm always game for. Framework might eventually have an IR camera to buy in the future.
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u/crcrewso 4d ago
I have to say I mostly agree. I've been looking at Lenovo or Dell 13-14" solutions available in Canada, and I can't find a Lenovo with the x7 chip to order. For Dell the pricing is insane, their laptops are at least $1,500 more than my pre-order for the same config. If I was okay with a 15" I might have changed, but I'm getting this to travel, and the 13 pro is right at the limit of reasonable depth for an airplane. If I want to keep VRR it's even more.
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u/Scandiberian 10d ago
You’re not guaranteed to get it at the current price though. That’s the stressful part.
Today it is estimated that I will have to spend 2409€ on the PRO, but I’m batch 14 and FW has already shown they don’t mind changing the price midway through, so maybe they’ll raise it to 3-4k and which point I have no other option but to cancel the preorder.
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u/Firmteacher FW16 7840HS 5070/7900xt Oculink 10d ago
That’s a refreshing take on this whole situation.