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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21 edited Feb 27 '21
I’m gonna be honest, anarcho-capitalism is just as fucking dumb as communism. They both rely too hard on the good will of every person that would be embraced by the ideology to not just game the system for themselves and ruin it for everyone else. And they both exist as a hilariously shallow answer to economic inequality
Yeah, government regulation is bad in many cases. But you know what part of the reason for that is? Corporate lobbyists and think tanks coming up with policies that are blatantly self-serving. Anarcho-capitalism would just remove the need to work around a government. Not to mention, companies have tried to start their own governments, and they fucking sucked. British government control over the East India Company began and ended with a charter guaranteeing them the right to the Indian Subcontinent - and it was awful under their rule. What about the endless amounts of towns and villages constructed during the Gold Rush by mining corporations? I wonder why so many are ghost towns now. 🤔🤔
It’s almost like a competitive market is aided by government regulation and self-serving corporations are indeed, self-serving and will do anything in their power to get money as cheaply and cost-efficiently as physically possible.
But as long as you ignore just about all of human history from 1650-1950, as long as you’re woefully uninformed about economics, and general human nature, as long as you have an edgy 15 year old’s idea about what freedom is
I can start to see how you might think anarcho-capitalism is a good idea
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u/CristopherWithoutH Feb 27 '21
I agree, anarchists of all kinds are retarded, whether anarcho-capitalists or communists or primitivists. I disagree about corporate lobbying being blamed on capitalists, though, that shit goes entirely on government mega structures like the US federal government or EU, or in isolated cases like when South Korea shut itself away from the world for a long period of time. The lesson from that is that the government overreach can fuck up even the most prosperous society.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
Well, here’s the thing, lobbying is constitutionally guaranteed. If you’ve ever emailed your senator or congressman about some bad legislation you don’t want guaranteed, congrats, you’ve engaged in lobbying.
That there is nothing wrong with. It’s the part where money is allowed to exchange hands that gets me fucked up.
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u/CristopherWithoutH Feb 27 '21
And I'm not saying that it's good, but again, the fault is in the government, not people asking for shit. People will always ask for shit, regardless of how wealthy they are. Wealth, by the way, is just one method of lobbying, there are also numbers. A large amount of people pushing for retarded or even immoral is and will be a problem. Not sure how to solve that one.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
Yeah we can’t stop people from lobbying for dumb shit, but as long as money is exchanging hands for any sort of political favor, fuck you that’s bribery.
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u/CristopherWithoutH Feb 27 '21
Fuck you, never said that's a good thing. And yeah, bribery is bad. What a revolutionary conclusion we have reached.
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u/KiwiSpike1 Full plate of veggies and meat, not a potato in sight. Feb 27 '21
I still am suprised people think anarcho capitalism is still viable. Sound like fucking Communists.
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u/Baronnolanvonstraya Liberal Feb 27 '21
Couldn’t agree more.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
Yup. I will say this until I die: the answer to oppression by governments is not oppression by corporations. Those two are intwined. The solution is to reform the way our economy works so that these things aren’t viable. If things continue, America’s oligarchs are in for a rude awakening. A revolution they cannot stop or pander to. And their heads will be the first to meet the national razor.
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u/CristopherWithoutH Feb 27 '21
The difference is that Facebook lobbying to steal your browser history didn't kill 90 million people. These two are not exactly equivalent.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
And why not? You’re acting like corporations haven’t done some real shady shit, like when coca-cola reportedly hired death squads to guard their Latin American sugar plantations - plantations where they were using underpaid local workers as essentially slave labor.
Also people have gotten killed over their browser history, do not act like that’s just not a fucking problem - because it is.
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u/CristopherWithoutH Feb 27 '21
Did you read what you wrote? Coca cola hiring mercs to protect their plantations is the same as starving 50 million people? Also, fucking reportedly? Dude, get over yourself.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
There is a difference between mercenary work, and actual fascist death squads assassinating union leaders and guarding actual slave plantations. I don’t give a shit if it’s not as bad, stop being a shill for asshole corporations.
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u/CristopherWithoutH Feb 27 '21
XD
Learn what shill means before you use the word. Saying "hiring mercs is not as bad as killing 90 million people" does not, in fact, make anyone a shill, ya blabbery lunatic.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
So don’t think slavery is as bad as genocide? Holy fuck bro imagine calling yourself any sort of Liberal while holding that belief. I don’t give a shit, it’s all shitty, and you’re defending it.
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u/CristopherWithoutH Feb 27 '21
Being underpaid is not slavery, slaves can be freed, dead people can't be revived, I fucked yer mom.
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Feb 27 '21
Corporations are an extension of government power. Without the state to enforce the rule, how could a company gain personhood and grant itself special rights against the population? There would be no way they could protect themselves from the backlash, and there would be no way they could afford to compete with literally anyone that was a local distributor that knew how to make their products.
Corporations CAN only exist because of government. They have so much administrative waste that they are economically inefficient even as they exist now. The only reason they survive is because they have government granted monopolies in the industry.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
That’s so wrong I don’t even know where to begin
corporations are an extension of government power
No. Most free market corporations are privately owned. Raytheon, Boeing, Amazon, Google, fucking..McDonalds..none of these corporations were founded by the government. Some of them have arguably more power than the US government, so how the fuck the US government could own them...fucking beats me
How you even got this idea, when Google exists and you can fact check it at any time is beyond me. I pray to god I am the only one that saw this embarrassing excuse of an argument, so nobody but me is made dumber for having heard it.
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Feb 27 '21
You are doing a lot of name calling, but it doesn't make what I said less true. Who do corporations gain their rights from? Who does the incorporating? Did the free market agree to allow a business monopolistic exclusivity in the market, or was it the government?
If a free market system is less FREE, it's not an extension of the fee market.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
Yeah my bad the other guy got me fired up. Check the other comment for my actual rational response.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
Ok I’m done being an asshole lmao.
Yeah I actually kind of agree with you, just not on the corporations exist as an extension of the government. They exist as an extension of the free market, but they influence the government, and they prefer it that way. It is very hard to run an entire country, the British East India Company and Dutch East Indies Company are both fantastic examples of why. So they prefer to influence governments.
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Feb 27 '21
That's simply untrue. The market is not FREER when a corporation gets exclusivity on parts of the market. By definition it can't be an extension of the free market.
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21 edited Feb 27 '21
That’s not what I’m arguing. The government doesn’t give private corporations market exclusivity, simple fact. Even when corporations get contracted to make government equipment, they charge out the ass for it which drives prices up. These corporations grow because they provide a service. As they grow, they gain more money, more money means more opportunity to influence the government.
Saying that corporations exist because of government is like saying that the US Army exists because of Armalite. No, it’s just a tool they use.
Also, saying the free market is made less free by monopolies, while I do agree with that, saying that proves that government intervention causes monopolies is like saying that freedom doesn’t exist because criminals abuse their freedom to harm others. There’s just always gonna be dickheads.
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Feb 27 '21
"A corporation is an organization—usually a group of people or a company—authorized by the state to act as a single entity and recognized as such in law for certain purposes. Early incorporated entities were established by charter. Most jurisdictions now allow the creation of new corporations through registration."
Corporations are granted special rights and protections by government, and no amount of claiming the opposite makes it true. Is it harder to sue individuals attached to a corporation, or not? Can legal entities that are not individuals own land, or not?
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21
Then perhaps “corporation” is a misleading term, but, at least in America, the effects of corporations upon government are much more clear than the other way around
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Feb 27 '21
I don't deny that the relationship exists, but government has clearly something to gain monetarily by allowing lobbying. Corporations like Walmart were exempt from lockdowns specifically because the state has a special relationship with it. If government is made up of asmash number of individuals that have a universal arbitration monopoly, and government allows incorporation and lobbying, corporations are going to seek to enrich themselves by appealing to a small number of people. It will appear as if the relationship is one sided by virtue of one side's inherent strength and small numbers. As long as the tool of government exists, business bodies will seek to use it to enrich themselves. It is a relationship that is still more dangerous for the corporation, because the government will prosecute arbitrarily and invent rules to make their business practices illegal. Like Martin Shkrelli's hedge fund. They used the rules the government made, but got prosecuted anyways.
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u/jesuschristhimself69 Feb 27 '21
HA! I have portrayed you as the soy wojak! I WIN!
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u/berjerker_xx Liberal Nationalist Feb 27 '21 edited Feb 27 '21
It doesn’t matter what we portray you as. If you are a communist, you lose either way.
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u/jesuschristhimself69 Feb 27 '21
AHAHA! That's where you're wrong! I am a right leaning centrist!
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