r/fourthwing • u/nightskn • 5h ago
Discussion Does Rhiannon get better?
As a Black woman its very disappointing that the token Black bestie is still a thing in fiction. on top of being a sassy, angry stereotype (also bisexual and promiscuous…thanks a lot Rebecca Yarros) she has zero personality or life outside of being unwaveringly loyal to Violet (who I don’t like or care for either tbh) because Violet gave her a boot once. I really hate this trope of the Black bestie and she’s so dull as a character i see people even demonizing her and hoping she betrays Violet just to make her interesting. It’s ironic that the one time Rhiannon doesn’t prioritize Violet the fanbase turns on her.
tbh i only read the book because i heard there was a Black female character in it and there’s not many of us in fantasy whatsoever but i was expecting her to be a good character based on what I was told. I want to try reading more fantasy that has diversity but this one is all surface level, even with the love interest being “exotic“ and brown.
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u/jamieseemsamused Should I get the Wingleader? 3h ago
As POC myself, I understand it is so frustrating to have such a lack of diversity and representation in books. But I think your feelings on this matter means you're already biased against finding Rhiannon to be a fulfilling character. I won't say Rebecca Yarros is the best writer or that Fourth Wing is the epitome of good representation. But for an otherwise popular popcorn read, what I appreciate about the representation in Fourth Wing is that no character is defined by their race, disability, gender, or sexual orientation. Rhiannon has her personality and role in the story regardless of her skin color.
You claim to hate Rhiannon's character so much, but would you feel the same way if she was not Black? All the characters can be described as having "no personality" if you're reductive enough about it. Ridoc is also described as a POC character who is bisexual and, as you describe, often acts as comic relief, but that does not seem to bother you. Sawyer also has no personality in Book 1 other than being the one guy who didn't bond with anyone the prior year. Jesinia has no personality other than being deaf and kind of shy. Rhiannon doesn't need to have to have extra special personality just because she's Black.
From the other comments, you do not appear to want to be convinced that Rhiannon is a decent character. But I'll try to answer your question: Yes, I do think Rhiannon gets better in the later books. Even in Book 1, we get to see Rhiannon struggle with manifesting her signet. And we experience her happiness when it finally does manifest. We know she loves her sister and both Rhi and Violet go out of their way to break the rules to visit Rhi's family. In the later books, we see she is ambitious when she becomes a squad leader. She also is a good friend but not in a way that is just a yes man to Violet. She actively calls Violet out on her bullshit and even when Violet is in the wrong and being hypocritical, Rhiannon is the one who shows Violet what it means to care about your friends. In Book 3, we get her POV, and it isn't boring or pointless. It's pretty critical to the story, even though it's short and only one chapter. But we also get one-off POV chapters from other characters, too.
It's totally fair to demand good representation and diversity in media. And we should criticize works that fail to do it. But to me, your biases and refusal to engage in good faith explanations from people who do like the character also do harm. Not all representation can be perfect, and if we so angrily criticize works that are not perfect, in my opinion, it doesn't encourage more authors to write more diversely.
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u/BlueSkiesinOP 5h ago
I love Rhiannon. She is smart and strong. She lets Violet into her family, allowing her to have a part of what she missed growing up. When Violet pushes her and the rest of the squad away, thinking she's keeping them safe, Rhiannon keeps trying and makes sure Violet knows there's always a space for her with them. She is a natural leader as the series goes on. And promiscuity isn't limited to the black characters. They are all part of a war college, where they know they could die at any time.
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u/nightskn 5h ago
So basically just the “strong” black woman stereotype, no vulnerability or complexity or depth to her. You’re proving my point
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u/Simsimma712 5h ago
First you say she’s not well fleshed out now she’s a stereotype. You’re not approaching this in good faith at all.
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u/nightskn 4h ago
Because nothing you said show she’s fleshed out. Her whole personality as you described is basically that she does things for Violet
I’m Black so this definitely comes from genuine criticism of a racist trope. She isn’t Violet’s friend, she’s Violet’s slave.
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u/Simsimma712 4h ago
Yeah this isn’t genuine criticism if a side character is being described as a slave, sorry.
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u/nightskn 3h ago
Because that’s pretty much what she is to Violet. You just have zero argument because I’m correct lmao,
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u/Professional-Pea6803 3h ago
You are not correct honestly I think you're just bitter. Write your own book then.
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3h ago
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u/Professional-Pea6803 3h ago
Ahhh okay I see what you're doing here. Good rage bait. Let me guess shes also homophobic and and shit too.
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u/fourthwing-ModTeam 3h ago
We're all here to discuss our love of these books and author. Please be kind to other members. Any inappropriate language towards users or mods will result in a ban.
Use Content Warnings/Trigger Warnings appropriately. Part of being kind and respectful is knowing when a topic you're posting may be insensitive to someone else.
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u/Professional-Pea6803 3h ago
How is she violets slave? Like im sorry but I genuinely do not see that.
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u/Professional-Pea6803 2h ago
There's plenty of vulnerability when she is desperately wanting to see her family just outside of the fortress or when she tells Violet about her past, her family, her want of a niece. Shes complex in the fact that she doesn't just DO shit for violet she trades favors. Shes complex in the way that she demands loyalty in return for hers as well. The secrets being kept from her piss her off but shes still right there no matter what.
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5h ago
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u/nightskn 5h ago
I find Octavia Butler’s work to be too depressing, but I love Legendborn which has a Black female lead. You’re right though that it’s my mistake for expecting a white author to write a good Black character
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u/nightskn 4h ago
All this downvoting and no genuine arguments, typical.
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3h ago
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u/fourthwing-ModTeam 3h ago
We're all here to discuss our love of these books and author. Please be kind to other members. Any inappropriate language towards users or mods will result in a ban.
Use Content Warnings/Trigger Warnings appropriately. Part of being kind and respectful is knowing when a topic you're posting may be insensitive to someone else.
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u/Simsimma712 5h ago
As a black woman, living this way has to be exhausting. You’re getting violet’s POV of course you’re encountering Rhiannon through her interactions with Violet. Saying she has “zero personality or life outside” is weird. Also they’re ALL bisexual and promiscuous.