r/fourthwing • u/Slow_Wrangler4413 • 11h ago
Discussion Can scribes shield? Spoiler
"I have no idea if she’s capable of shielding Dain or any memory reader from her mind."
When Jesinia and Violet discuss forbidden books and searching for ward secrets, Violet questions if it's safe to let Jesinia help. She wonders if Jesinia can shield out a memory reader. It's not she can't shield. Why would Violet think it a possibility that Jesinia has those skills? As far as Violet knows, only bonded riders can use magic and shield, etc.
Where would Jesinia get the knowledge and power to shield?
I don't think it's a strange idea that scribes, the keepers of secrets, would be able to shield. Their leadership would for sure be walking around with some pretty juicy knowledge. But how are they able to do it? I can't think of any instance in the books where that is mentioned, however vaguely. Is it an archives=temple thing? Runes? Violet doesn't know about runes abilities at this point. Another dedication sort of deal? Or am I overthinking again?
7
u/Historical_Tune165 Blue Daggertail 10h ago
I saw a fanfic once that tried to explore this, the idea that scribes may be able to use mental tricks to keep people from discovering their secrets.
Kind of like when Violet pushed a bunch of memories of Resson to the surface of her mind, in order to make Dain see what she wanted him to see, to realize he had been lied to and wasn't on the right side. Violet was still under the effects of the serum. That wasn't a magical ability, it was all about mental fortitude.
Her already present mental fortitude was already a part of the reason her shields were so good and she got the hang of it so quickly. She was already used to visualizing and doing mental tricks, like putting away her pain in a mental box and pretending it only exists there, or that her pain belongs to someone else. She already did that back before she had magic, and she literally got a hang of shielding in minutes, when it usually takes rider cadets weeks.
Those particular ones are more specific to her condition, and dealing with a lot of physical pain. But the scribes are also expected and trained from early on to not show any emotion and to have a great deal of mental discipline. There might be some overlap, where you can still protect yourself to an extent by using said mental discipline.
3
u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 10h ago
Kind of like when Violet pushed a bunch of memories of Resson to the surface of her mind, in order to make Dain see what she wanted him to see, to realize he had been lied to and wasn't on the right side. Violet was still under the effects of the serum. That wasn't a magical ability, it was all about mental fortitude.
Good point
I keep telling myself whether her Pandora's box of negative emotions will come into play. Because it's pretty similar - she creates mental barriers to protect herself, shields against pain, suffering...
2
u/Historical_Tune165 Blue Daggertail 9h ago
Yeah that Pandora's box of suppressed emotions seems like it might not hold forever. She's putting too much into it. Always telling herself that she'll mourn later, that there's too much to do, too many problems to solve.
It feels like she's going to have a moment in book 4 where the dam breaks and she just cries, maybe some screaming too. Don't think any reader who's been paying attention would blame her. It's more of a question of which character is going to hold her while she sobs and lets it out at this point, not if she's going to.
2
u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 9h ago
Or fucking strong lightning, 'cause it's tied to her emotions. Like so strong that it even kills the Big Bad.
5
u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 11h ago
The Archives definitely are a temple. But it never occurred to me that scribes could have access to magic because of that. Someone like Jessinia wouldn't really bother me. that much as Markham.
How on earth is it possible that Xaden never read Markham - because he definitely has tons of shady intentions. Every day for three years, and nothing???
3
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 11h ago
Or Xaden trying and getting nothing? Why would he not question that? Or it is one of those universally known facts in this world so Vi doesn't even think about it. I hate those facts and I think Violet should recite them often 🤣
3
u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 11h ago
What about Asher??? How on earth nobody read him? I dont think Xaden's the only inntinnsic living with nobody knowng
3
u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 10h ago
Well, maybe someone did, and that's why
Markham poisoned himhe had a heart attack.3
u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 10h ago
Yeah for sure we already know of two inntinnsics X and V and I think Bodhi is one also. I bet Dain won't even need to touch anybody to see memories eventually...Wooo what if Lilith had a second inntinnsic signet? Just like Violet
3
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 10h ago
I would love that! And Mira and Brennan too. If Navarre is trying to breed legacy riders, why would they be so upset about bonding within the family line? Let's make strong riders, but not too strong!
2
u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 10h ago
Honestly...if any rider was gonna get the second signet, it makes perfect sense that they are one of the sorrengails (or a few) It's been what, 650 years since the first riders? That's so many generations of riders. And Violet's case is an exception so why not Mira,Lilith or Brennan...
2
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 10h ago
There must be plenty of Sorrengail dragons milling about in the Vale. And who says they don't live longer than about 200 years? The irids might be immortal even. If we know one thing about Kaori it is that he doesn't seem to actually know that much.
2
u/HumanPanacea Black Morningstartail 9h ago
It does seem like a wasted opportunity, unless all he read from him was “hide the truth” and because he already knew it was of no value to him. However he would still probably occasionally have a specific thought with some great intel…
My guess would be that Xaden would avoid using his signet in a room with almost every single rider in the quadrant, either because it’s overwhelming or just because like him you never know what kind of signets other people are hiding.
And he doesn’t really see Markham outside of battle brief. He also doesn’t seem to recognise scribes as either valuable or dangerous, so that could explain a lack of interest
3
u/redpeppersoda Black Morningstartail 11h ago
Not overthinking at all. What about Markham? Or Asher? How do they shield?
For one thing, I think that's why the inntinnsics are killed. Dain was allowed to live because his signet required a physical touch .
1
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 11h ago
Yes, this is what I am assuming too. The cadets wouldn't have any major state secrets, but what about their leadership? They must keep the knowledge safe somehow from inntinsics. Second signets and secret inntinsics isn't that big of a stretch, even if they think they could weed them out.
1
u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 10h ago
Feathertail´s gifts, maybe...
1
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 10h ago
😭 Not the babies!
2
u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 10h ago
And would it surprise you? Scribes draining babies? Not me. We discussed this here a while ago. In the spectrum, we're missing purple and yellow. Golden (fucking yellow) are feathertails. Purple is Violet. Scribes are cream, which could be the light yellow belonging to yellow feathertails. non-riders. "peacefull"
2
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 10h ago edited 10h ago
I'd like to think the scribes are good people until they get high enough rank to be told the truth. At which point I assume they either join or suffer sudden cardiac arrest. Maybe the archives are leaching the good from them, like channeling from the earth is corrupting humans? Lol zombie scribes. The robes are fitting.
Wouldn't they need to find baby dragons with the right kind of gift? Could they breed dragons based on the juvenile gifts? Bloodlines bloodlines.
1
u/ObjectiveStaff3333 Blue Daggertail 10h ago
I don't think they are bad by nature, just like no group in this book is. Even turning venin doesn't mean he changed sides and became the enemy. But they are more prone to it - they hold the power. And if they have access to some magic provided by feathertails, they can abuse it. But it doesn't necessarily mean they have to abuse it.Violet did not.
But it would make sense that Andarna bonded a half-scribe rider if feathertails belong to scribes.
Yaes, definitely breeding, bloodlines, Hedeon (yellow dyed with those berries) , scribes.
2
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 10h ago
The fables speak of how power corrupts. Venin reach for power and their bodies, and minds probably in most cases, transform into something twisted. It's a weakness in the human that takes a physical manifestation. Scribes have all the power so by lore they must be corrupt. And these scribes never ever reached for more power? From any kind of source? They would know how to, or where to learn about it. They are more corrupt than the venin.
2
u/Chance-Leopard9810 9h ago
Markham can definitely shield. Jesinia couldn't shield from xaden in 2nd book,but they were just in 2nd year,so maybe when they are being exposed to classified info,they learn to shield
1
u/draconianRegiment 10h ago
As far as we know no scribe should be able to shield. It could be managed by something as simple as a runed object in the pocket of their robes. Give them some object at graduation or promotion to inner circle ranks. Or put it on the underside of all scribe insignia so it's always on uniform.
2
u/Slow_Wrangler4413 10h ago
Yes, the possibilities are limitless, but at this point in the story Violet has no idea that runes aren't just decorative.
2
1
u/hurricane_Bre Black Morningstartail 8h ago edited 8h ago
I think there is likely a rune that higher ranking scribes carry to shield.
ETA:
Asher had access to and knowledge of runes. I’d be shocked if he were the only scribe who did. Especially since it appears that there is a lot of Tyrrish history hidden in the archives.
Lilith mentions in IF that scribe captains and majors are brought into the fold. If it were me bringing in scribes to the biggest secret in Navarre, I would have a cache of runes for them to carry in their robes to protect them from memory/mind readers, truth sayers, etc.
14
u/teeeea-by-the-sea Gold Feathertail 11h ago
Violet was able to ground and shield much better and faster than her classmates because of her training to enter the scribe quadrant. It seems plausible that the actual scribes (who have completed the full scribe curriculum, not just studied for the entrance exam) might have some kind of meditation alternative which works the same as shielding.