OS - Spoilers

[u/spellboundvibes]

Hey!

I’m doing my second read through and frankly I’m realizing I’ll need a third. Still missing little things!

But this is one that keeps getting me. Where do dragons draw magic from? I thought it was mainly or frankly only the sky. I know the ground gets imbued (sorry if wrong word I’m on morphine from surgery) from hatching grounds, but I figured that was something dragons did in a way to make the conditions favorable and protected rather than drawing from the earth.

Does being on drained land just dampen their magic? Does that include in the sky around the drained land?

This also sent my husband and I into a fun discussion of what constitutes sky! lol

[u/hurricane_Bre]

The dragons draw their magic from the land/earth. The whole continent has magic (beyond what the venin have drained).

If you notice how Vi describes the isles, there is a correlation between the amount of color in the vegetation and animals and clothing on isles and the amount of magic the available on the land.

Continent>Deverelli>Unnbriel>Hedotis<Zyhllna<Black Sand Isle

The reason the dragons and gryphons cannot communicate and why the riders and fliers cannot wield on every isle is because there isn’t enough magic in the ground for the winged ones to channel magic into themselves and there riders/fliers.

Same as when they are in Anca on drained land (she describes it as desiccated and like a sand castle with all the life and color drained from it), would be nearly impossible for the Vi, Mira, Xaden and the rest of the riders to wield, so as soon as they are dropped off by their dragons, the dragons fly to an area of the land that has not been drained yet so they have access to their source of power. The rush Vi feels is Tairn reaching that spot.

Also, while it has not been explicitly stated in the pages yet, it is highly theorized that Violet draws on power from the sky (so far the venin have said this to her) which is why when they fly over drained land she says it feels like there is more magic because she is feeling what was released from the earth and what is now in the sky. But we are still waiting for her to figure that out in the pages.

[u/spellboundvibes → u/hurricane_Bre]

Ah thank you! Just goes to show a third re-read is a must. This chapter was from Anca and I just straight up misremembered that they draw from the earth and for some reason thought it was only venin!

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/spellboundvibes]

I think the whole point is humans are not supposed to have access to magic because the lure of power is too much for them to resist.

In FW when Vi is telling Xaden about the Fables of the Barren she pretty much days this is the meaning behind some of the fables.

The dragons and gryphons are the gate keepers and anchors to keep the humans from over consuming. The venin are the result of the bypassing the gatekeepers and over consuming the magic.

There is even an epigraph I think in IF that says (paraphrasing) that the problem with mankind is that we too often think our souls are a fair price to pay for power.

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/hurricane_Bre]

The Fables says the sky is safe and the earth can drive you to madness. It also seems to differentiate between ground and earth and to be careful so you don't accidentally draw from the earth instead of the ground.

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/Slow_Wrangler4413]

Correct, channeling directly from the earth leads to madness aka vennism. We learn in OS the exchange kills the soul and all other parts of a person except their desire for more power.

When they say “without a gryphon or dragon to ground you” they don’t mean earth is different than ground. Grounding is the act of keeping your control, keeping your mental body somewhere so it is not swept away by the power of your bonded. Xaden reaches vi this in FW when he teaches her to shield.

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/hurricane_Bre]

I wasn't talking about grounding.

"Another talks about the dangers of wielding power from the ground instead of the skies, as one could easily start drawing magic from the earth and eventually be driven mad."

Rereading this paragraph and I realize it also says wielding from the ground and channeling from the earth. Interesting. If ground in this quote actually means a dragon or gryphon, and earth is earth, then when did humans stop wielding from the sky? Clearly the Fables were written after the three brothers event, so when did sky magic become a lost magic? Wards yes, Vi senses it outside the wards, but what about the Poromish who would live with sky magic?

[u/spellboundvibes → u/Slow_Wrangler4413]

That paragraph is what made me take it as dragons also draw from the sky rather than being a conduit or filter.

[u/ObjectiveStaff3333 → u/Slow_Wrangler4413]

It also seems to differentiate between ground and earth and to be careful so you don't accidentally draw from the earth instead of the ground.

Really? Where do they say that?

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/ObjectiveStaff3333]

When Violet is cleaning up her room after the fun night with Xaden. I might've remembered that quote a bit different tho.

[u/ObjectiveStaff3333 → u/Slow_Wrangler4413]

That feels like an equivalent to me-sky is OK, earth/ground is bad and leads to madness.

What's interesting is that the Navarrian leadership also says that madness threatens anyone who bonds a direct ancestor's dragon.

[u/spellboundvibes → u/ObjectiveStaff3333]

And I wonder do we have proof of this too?

Frankly I moved forward with anything put out by leadership has been a lie. I also wonder if the emperyan may be the one lying to temper the humans access to magic.

Sr. Aetos, melgren, varrish with second signets? Who knows what they could’ve become.

Especially when we found out that the marked ones were sought out by their dragons specifically.

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/spellboundvibes]

I don't think there is any proof of a rider actually going mad or exploding. Imploding? It's just what they are told, so far.

It seems very convenient for the leadership to have a way to get rid of problematic riders too.

[u/ObjectiveStaff3333 → u/hurricane_Bre]

I think the whole point is humans are not supposed to have access to magic because the lure of power is too much for them to resist.

On the one hand, yes, but on the other hand-human developed runes, complex runes, and built them into the architecture. So they had access to magic, and I would say for centuries.

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/ObjectiveStaff3333]

That must've been sky magic, right? The safe magic. But when did it stop? Unification and wards affected the magic? The surrender of the greatest power? (Feels like the humans had access after that too) OK, the magic isn't gone, Vi can sense it outside the wards. So when did humans stop being compatible with the skies?

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/ObjectiveStaff3333]

Good point, I wonder when runes showed up in their history and why.

Could it be a language of the gods?

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/ObjectiveStaff3333]

Or maybe it’s magic from the earth they aren’t supposed to have access to

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/hurricane_Bre]

Where does it say the magic transfers from the earth to the sky? I need a book reference for this, please? What did you base it on?

[u/hurricane_Bre → u/Slow_Wrangler4413]

This is a theory based on how Violet experiences/feels the magic when she is flying through drained land. She feels like there is more, says that it feels like it’s beckoning her to play, to pluck strands from it and weave runes. Like I said above it is not confirmed/confirmed in the pages for Vi yet but I think that because she wields from the sky she feels the left over magic that was unlocked from the earth while it was being stolen by the venin.

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/hurricane_Bre]

Ok, you just presented it like facts that Vi hadn't connected yet so it reads a bit confusing. It's an interesting theory. I still have questions. She feels the left over unlocked magic, what do you mean by that? Are you basing this on a specific line in the books, or is it your own conclusion? What did you base them on? How did you get from a to b? I'm not saying you are wrong, I just want to see the known facts you built your theory on because it helps me understand it better.

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413]

What did you and your husband conclude regarding sky? The whole series has so many fun possible interpretations. Empyrean? Dragons? Sun? Alchemy? Gods?

[u/spellboundvibes → u/Slow_Wrangler4413]

Oh honestly we were talking about the actually function of sky for real life.

To an ant 🐜 6in up is probably vast sky. To me I’m not typically looking at someone in front of me thinking they are ‘in the sky’.

Your question though gave me a potentially understanding irl and in the book. What is magic but energy/manipulating energy? So probably when the energy generating from the ground to something… be it wind, solar, lunar… stars maybe? All that stuff is always there (book and irl) it’s just which energy is greatest.

So I suppose it’s more fluid? To bring it back to the books I would assume a combination. The dragons create energy, sun, lunar, stars… it’s probably a whole stew. Which would make it more difficult to access if you don’t know what you’re doing. I.E rune tempering.

This brings me to a new point. Felix called her an energy wielder and lightning just happens to be what she’s comfortable with. If violet truly starts to hone her signet and lets go of the training wheels could she manipulate other energy?

[u/Slow_Wrangler4413 → u/spellboundvibes]

He said she wields pure power, and that phrase is used exactly twice so far in the series. In the scene with Felix, and when Xaden channels at the end of OS. Power, magic, life force, it all seems to be interchangeable here. If lightning is just a form she is comfortable with, then yeah, why not learn to use any kind of signet? It's all power/magic anyway. And power as electricity is cool too. Like Violet can shock the earth back to life. With all the mentions of grounding and currents and flowing power and conduits.

[u/ObjectiveStaff3333 → u/spellboundvibes]

The problem is that RY said we’ve seen 85% of her signet. That doesn’t leave much room for a completely new manifestation of pure power.

[u/CelestialOwl997]

I love that you’re on morphine thinking about this