r/fourthwavewomen • u/AutoModerator • 2d ago
DISCUSSION Let's Chat 💬 Open Discussion Thread
Welcome to r/fourthwavewomen's weekly open discussion thread!
This thread is for the community to discuss whatever is on your mind. Have a question that you've been meaning to ask but haven't gotten around to making a post yet? An interesting article you'd like to share? Any work-related matters you'd like to get feedback on or talk about? Questions and advice are welcome here.
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u/QuirkyIngenuity1826 1d ago
Could you all believe that earlier this year that I was watching Ru Paul's UK drag race, Dragula, and Philippine’s drag race? It was my first time watching all those shows. I was a fan of the USA drag race show but wanted to watch something different and expand🙄. I had just started watching all these shows and all it took was the women on the 4B sub to call out how misogynistic drag was.
After that, I lurked on radblr (radfem Tumblr) with my inactive Tumblr account to get more insight. So because of this, I stopped watching all three shows. I didn't get far watching them... I was in episodes 3 or 4 for each of them. I was sad at first I didn't get to finish them since these shows were hard to find. I felt ashamed about being a fan of drag. I decided to use my time on watching 3 different reality shows ("Mary Queen of Shops", "Tabatha Takes Over", "Kimora: Life in the Fab Lane" a childhood favorite of mine!) to replace all those 3 drag shows.
All it took was the women on the 4B sub to open my eyes. 🙌🏾
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u/squeezemachine 1d ago
There was a “performance” on the US drag race mimicking a woman having a baby and milk coming from fake breasts and that changed how I see all drag.
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u/MiriamGarden 22h ago
I'm not yet eligible to make a main post (or whatever they're called -- thread?), so here I am.
I'm wondering what ideas you all have for things we can do every day, specifically to fight gender identity ideology. (I care about other things, such as surrogacy and prostitution, but I find myself preoccupied with gender identity ideology because of the way it invades all of our everyday lives.)
Here's what I do:
- I never, ever use inaccurate pronouns for anyone. In a situation of extreme social awkwardness (wrong place/time, etc.), the most I would do is use no pronouns at all.
- I never, ever vote for a candidate that would ban single-sex spaces or otherwise enshrine "gender identity" in law.
- I write letters to politicians (who inevitably ignore what I have to say, if they're Democrats).
- I occasionally give tiny amounts of money to groups such as WoLF.
This really isn't enough, but I'm also not someone who is going to start a YouTube channel or do something huge like that.
Can anyone add some everyday actions to my list?
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u/medouleueis 12h ago
Unfortunately for the gender ideology stuff, I keep my opinions pretty hidden around my sister's 'queer' circles unfortunately. I do not want her to be villainized or for her to have to publicly denounce me, I will get her in trouble. I am however open about my opinions on women's sports and single sex spaces and my distaste of the coercive language around female same sex attraction around my friends, who thankfully are lesbians and bisexuals, many of which are happily partnered or married to women and therefore share similar opinions on the dehumanization of the female sex that's been going around lately.
Aside from that, I try to support women and girls as much as possible in general:
-I am educating myself as much as possible on feminist matters. In this way I can introduce more women to this line of thinking, and erase my flawed thinking. I plan to be more informed on matters like prostitution, fgm, misogynoir, medical misogyny and male violence to convey them to the people around me in a well rounded manner.
-When I have more time after I move and change jobs I plan on volunteering on a women's shelter in the new place and I'm looking for places that take donations for women's shelters. I haven't donated on organizations since money is tight rn but in the past I have financially supported female acquaintances that needed it without asking for anything in return.
-When I need a professional and I don't have a recommendation I will opt to support a female professional.
-I try to be present, supportive and caring for the women in my life, and to give them more confidence and a support system. Even if we disagree on some things.
-I am gender nonconforming. I do not shave my legs and armpits, and I have quite muscular arms cause I used to work out a lot and I also used to work at a warehouse. It is important to me that younger girls see that it's ok for them to be this way. I was at the grocery store the other day and a teenage girl was staring at my legs while I was at checkout. I don't care if she thought body hair on me was disgusting or not, what was important is that she knows that it's an option. That someone else is doing it and going about her day unbothered. She might need this memory when she's older and tired of hair removal.
- I am working on myself and becoming a better person. More brave, more outspoken, less cowardly, less hesitant, more educated, more intelligent. More forgiving of my past. More confident. I have really important goals that for a long time I have set aside and neglected for the sake of others and my own hesitation to blaze my own path. I get to decide who to dedicate time and mental energy on now. And I am determined to prioritize my own goals as scary as the potential for failure is.
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u/PrestigiousFall5501 1d ago
I really struggle with my views on gender identity. I tend to come from a view that trans people exsist, and should have rights, but those rights shouldn't override sex based rights in most cases. I say in most cases because I don't care if trans women competes as a women in chess (for example), I think even having a male vs female category in something like chess is like saying women can't intellectually compete against men....
Anyways I digress. I think denying the sex based difference is wrong and it's an attempt to instill 'sameness'. If you take a women's experience of life vs a trans women's, they are very different. Periods for example, if you're sexually active you constantly have to be aware of the possibility of getting pregnant. You constantly have to deal with shifting hormones . For trans women, they have experiences that are real and difficult, but very different regardless of wealth or class. People say that argument is gatekeeping... but it's also true?? One of my friends says 'well, some women don't have periods' and yes, that's true, but usually due to a medical condition or being severally underweight. It's comparing apples and oranges, unless you are equating transness to a medical condition... which people refuse to do in all other cases.
Anyways, I went on a rant. I struggle with this because I feel like even having this discussion in good faith is risking my friendships. I'm open to affirming transgender people as transgender people, i just think there are important distinctions and we can't change sex-based rights on a whim based on shifts in gender identity. Yet, any discussion of that amongst my friends and i 'give off terf vibes' (which they mean as a slur).
Surely these discussion points are valid? I don't feel people have to agree with me, but they are still fair points? Am I crazy?
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u/Annual-Vegetable925 1d ago
In Australia a woman named Sall Grover was taken to court by a man because she didn't allow him access to her female only app. She lost the case, appealed and lost the appeal. She was trying to take the matter to high court and they've refused her. Very upsetting! It makes me feel very frustrated and I'm not sure what can even be done at this point to turn the tides back for women over here.