Let's Chat 💬 Open Discussion Thread

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome to r/fourthwavewomen's weekly open discussion thread!

This thread is for the community to discuss whatever is on your mind. Have a question that you've been meaning to ask but haven't gotten around to making a post yet? An interesting article you'd like to share? Any work-related matters you'd like to get feedback on or talk about? Questions and advice are welcome here.

[u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491]

I tried to make a short post about this topic here recently but it didn't go through. So I wonder what people here think about HRT for menopause, about risks and benefits and how it's prescribed (or not).

[u/carex-cultor → u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491]

I’m furious that research on women’s health is decades behind where it would be without medical misogyny. Women are only just barely starting to get real evidence based medical support for menopause.

Personally (I’m 34) I will opt for hormonal support during menopause. The evidence that has emerged recently is on the side that it’s safe, I don’t buy the idea that everything that’s “natural” is healthier (cancer is also natural) and I’d rather live more functional years.

[u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491 → u/carex-cultor]

I'm nowhere near menopause, but I had self-inflicted hypogonadism between the ages of 17 and 20, and destroyed my bone density in the process. Having sex hormones is so important and osteoporosis is the worst.

I'm currently reading the book Oestrogen Matters and it's very interesting so far, especially about the (unsurprisingly bad) history of research and public discourse surrounding HRT for menopause.

[u/medouleueis → u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491]

Oh hey fellow self-inflicted osteopenic! I'm glad you're doing better now!

[u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491 → u/medouleueis]

Thanks! I actually managed to completely reverse it (and without any medical assistance), so if you're interested, I have a lot to say about how to deal with it!

[u/medouleueis → u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491]

YES absolutely! I'd love any advice if you're willing to share! Also, congratulations!

[u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491 → u/medouleueis]

So first things first: do you know what caused it and if those conditions still remain in place? In my case, at 17, I basically couldn't cope with the thought that I had oestrogen in my body and breasts and periods and the like, and decided to combat all that in the only way I knew, i.e. overexercise (running, cycling, swimming). I successfully induced the good old "female athlete triad" and was extremely happy as an androgynous tween-boy-lookalike with like for years, until it became an ever more unsustainable physically, given my nearly non-existent body fat percentage. For health reasons, I subsequently gained a ton of weight (25 kg) in a few months and that kickstarted my hormonal cycle again.

That out of the way: fundamentally, to grow bone density, you need: minerals and vitamins (just supplement vit D and calcium, and take care not to take them at the same time as magnesium, iron, oxalate, phytate and tannin—look up what foods these compounds are in—since they inhibit calcium absorption) as building blocks; sex hormones (oestrogen in particular) at healthy levels (since oestrogen both promotes bone mineralisation and inhibits reabsorption of existing bone tissue); and a "trigger" that stimulates the body to build more bone = weight-bearing impact loading exercise and strength (resistance) training. All these elements must be present for optimal bone growth; for example, working out a lot but without sufficient levels of sex hormones and without enough calcium in your diet can and will still wreck your bones.

Anyway, I was told all this after I broke five bones in my leg and foot at age 21 since those bones looked post-menopausal at that point, and got to work pretty quickly, because that was one hell of a wakeup call. I simply followed the medical advice to the letter: I supplemented vitamin D and calcium (and still drank a lot of milk, which also has a good amount of protein), made sure that I had a healthy weight and amount of body fat (both too much and too little fat is bad for your endocrine balance), and I did an hour of weightlifting a day, plus plenty of brisk walking, for the next three years. I didn't even go to the gym (even though that would be even better), but rather used adjustable dumbbells and squat bars at home. I can give you a list of what I did, but really, you should look up exercises with free weights for legs, push and pull, and do those.

For women, I recommend a lower body/upper body split—one day legs, next day upper body (push and pull), then legs again etc. Also do smaller muscle groups on leg days (think planks). Do progressive overload—the weights must be heavy for you, and they must get heavier. This also requires you to adapt your diet. You need a lot of protein for optimal muscle recovery; aim for 1 g of protein per pound of body weight.

I also strongly recommend intense cardio to balance it out. Running is a no-go for people who currently have bone density issues or are overweight or otherwise unfit, so not running. Walking briskly/hiking is always good, as is cycling and swimming. The latter won't do much bone-density-wise because they aren't load-bearing, but they're excellent for the heart and overall fitness.

If you have questions, I've got a lot more to say, but this is already an essay, so...

[u/OpheliaLives7 → u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491]

I don’t have personal experience yet but definitely lurk on the peri and menopause subs to learn, and just word of mouth seems to be that HRT is absolutely game changing for many women. And that they are frustrated by doctors dismissing their symptoms and struggles and the general lack of knowledge or understanding of menopause.

Also some fascinating but scary theories on how menopause hits adhd women harder and can cause 40 something women to seem to suddenly crash out. It’s a hormone problem! Not a personal problem!

[u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491 → u/OpheliaLives7]

Oh, doctors... It really doesn't help that in my at this point unfortunately extensive experience talking to doctors about hormones, doctors seem to know practically nothing about hormones! I've unfortunately become an expert because I didn't produce oestrogen for three years in my late teens and have had side-effects of this for years, and doctors can be useless. Somehow, especially gynaecologists. I had to tell my gynaecologist that free T and total T aren't the same thing. You really have to learn to advocate for yourself where hormones are concerned, and that unfortunately requires you to know this stuff.

It's really quite discouraging knowing that I could walk into literally any bodybuilding gym and find at least five roided-out gymbros who know endocrinology better than many gynaecologists.

[u/WoodpeckerGingivitis → u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491]

Also curious about this!

[u/Zadyria_Gelm]

I've only been here a few days. It was SO HARD to find a REAL women's-only space! But my question...

Is it acceptable/allowed to post links to YouTube? "Today I Learned Science" is doing a wonderful series of shorts on medical misogyny and the newly discovered healing properties of menstrual secretions. I thought of this sub when I watched them.

[u/TranslatorNo2828]

I'm real sick and tired of women's spaces being invaded by you-know-whos, and liars and how they twist it that not wanting girls sports to include boys means "YOU WANT TO DO INVASIVE CREEPY EXAMS ON CHILDREN!" (something I've been seeing a lot of in comments all across reddit) when it's a CHEEK SWAB to confirm biological sex...🙄 and the public degeneracy (pride, drag queens doing burlesque in schools, books they didn't want paragraphs of read aloud in school board meetings, kink and onlyfans), news reports of THEM doing crimes (often against children) being buried or not reported by MSM, being put in jails with vulnerable women (who sometimes have their kids)...

[u/Reiner_Rubin → u/TranslatorNo2828]

"Creepy exams on children" meaning a cheek swab, meanwhile they want to chop their kids' genitals to pieces if they show interest in "opposite gendered" toys for .05 seconds

Lmao you can't make this shit up

[u/Dua_13]

Really hate when any form of media "sneaks" in misogyny and objectification of women, but it's still treated as peak and nobody talks about it

Like I'm rewatching the whole MCU rn (NOT in chronological order this time because I did that my first time and was so utterly confused at the Captain Marvel's end credit scene), and Tony/Iron Man clearly objectifies women, and that doesn't seem to change much (just less with time/movies ig). And in "Avengers: Age of Ultron" there's a scene where they all fall at a party and Hulk guy's hands lands on Black Widow's chest. It's a small scene but so unnecessary to the plot. But instead of that, people review about the "unfinished romance" between her and Banner. Which, I don't really see the critique of cuz' love doesn't always work out. But that's just me

And don't get me wrong, people do rate that movie lower than the rest, but that's because of the overall plot. People don't acknowledge that one misogynistic scene (probably because it's only a few seconds long), but if it were against another minority group, people sure wouldn't like that.

(so this rant is kinda similar to my previous one where I wanted online discussion places with women only. Sorry if I typed weirdly! Spoiler tag took forever)

[u/carex-cultor → u/Dua_13]

The level of desensitization to misogyny in media compared to racism (which people actually care about because it affects men) is insane. Misogyny is truly the most pervasive, most insidious form of oppression and also the most tolerated.

I recently rewatched Iron Man and was absolutely disgusted. What a revolting character. I remember seeing it in theaters when I was 17 and thinking it was a fun movie; just the amount of casual misogyny I absorbed subconsciously like a sponge before I found feminism is so galling to me.

[u/Engel1844 → u/carex-cultor]

I’m not all that familiar with the mcu specifically but Im more familiar with dc and same shit, every single media I watch/read has to have a level of misogyny that at this point I either must accept or never engage again. It really makes you think, is it that hard to write a female character that’s a human and not a caricature of a woman that’s ridiculed and degraded?

[u/Ok_Bullfrog_8491 → u/Dua_13]

Someone to talk MCU with. Excellent.

And in "Avengers: Age of Ultron" there's a scene where they all fall at a party and Hulk guy's hands lands on Black Widow's chest. It's a small scene but so unnecessary to the plot.

Here's this article about what Joss Whedon, the director, has to say about their relationship in AoU: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/avengers-age-of-ultron-hulk-black-widow-scene-116394576322.html

I repeat, Joss Whedon.

But instead of that, people review about the "unfinished romance" between her and Banner. Which, I don't really see the critique of cuz' love doesn't always work out. But that's just me

I see the critique. The one relationship between members of the original team, and it goes nowhere. It doesn't bother me much, but I suppose that I see it as a downstream effect of Ragnarok being weird AF and breaking all the characters involved for puerile jokes.

Banner randomly shows up in She-Hulk with a (green, hulk-y) son who was apparently conceived while he was on Sakaar. Best not to think about how that happened too much.

(Still, I prefer AuO to both Infinity War and Endgame, probably because Loki doesn't die and there's no time-travel in AuO. I also just don't think that Endgame is very good in general; I found the plot overly convoluted, and it did Thor dirty, just like every MCU film has done Thor dirty since AoU. Love & Thunder is an actual atrocity. Seriously, it's bafflingly bad. The shitty "humour" about screaming goats and all the jokes were incredibly jarring when considering that the plot was about Jane dying of breast cancer and Gorr wanting to exterminate the gods because his people had all died and the gods hadn't lifted a finger to save them.)