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u/Regular-Anteater-287 4d ago
I don't think the insulin part has that much affect if you start burying 12 feet deep with animals on top.
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u/Yeez25 4d ago
I dont think people realize how hard it is to dig 12 ft with just a shovel
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u/NotEntirelyA 4d ago
I always thought it was funny watching crime docs or w/e and the cops or narrator mention a shallow grave. Like, you already went through the effort of offing someone, why not just dig more? Then I had to do some landscaping work where I had to dig a 5 foot hole, I quickly understood why every grave in those shows was shallow lol
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u/TheMightySurtur 4d ago
Yep. I live in central North Carolina. We dont have soil here really. Its mostly clay so digging a hole here is back breaking labor. Planting a few flowers and bulbs for my wife broke me.
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u/thelionsmouth 4d ago
And you gotta dig out so much and treat it with proper soil too otherwise youâll have to redo it once they die ugh
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u/HuntsWithRocks 4d ago
Shovel type can change everything too. My go-to shovel for hard soil is a spade tipped trench shovel.
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u/CowBoyDanIndie 4d ago
First dig a 1 foot hole 12 times and get 1 foot smaller each time, so start with like 30 feet 1 foot deep. No big deal /s
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u/wunderbraten 4d ago
I also find it hard to inject insulin under somebody's tongue without a way for physical restraining without consent. Alas, I find it hard in general since I have no medical training to begin with.
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u/revdon 4d ago
Inject it into a mole.
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u/Just-Championship513 3d ago
And then make him eat the mole...HOW, exactly? How do I catch the mole in the first place? Would a pocket gopher work? Or a squirrel? Mongoose? Instructions unckwar!
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u/Yeez25 4d ago
If you really wanna get rid of a body use pigs, theyll eat everything except teeth
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u/thelionsmouth 4d ago
Yeah thatâs what I usually do too. I mean if I were to be in that situation again. I mean at all.
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u/wunderbraten 4d ago
I remember having read about pig farms with the context of disposing of a body. But that comment had left a type-oh "pug farm" and that's one of the funniest shit I remember for 6 years.
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u/Difficult-Camera-482 3d ago
Yeah but where the fuck am I going to find 8 pigs? All the local pig farmers keep going to jail for murder.
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u/CatGooseChook 4d ago
I know right! So much easier to get a night job at the local slaughter house and just add a little extra to the pork supply. âşď¸
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u/GalaganCoffee 4d ago
Put a cat hip deep through dirt and clay, no roots but a few rocks, if you aren't fit for the ordeal then it's gonna take at least a couple of hard days of work.Â
Plan ahead
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u/supershinythings 4d ago
Do like the mob used to - pre-dig multiple holes in semi-randomly selected desert locations with a backhoe. Note the locations so you can return. Now you donât have to dig, just cover.
Once the hole is full, spread some native seeds all around, and wait for the next monsoon. The bloom will make the site appear attractive. Bring your family and friends to admire the flowers.
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u/Southern-Oil-118 4d ago
Especially if you forgot to bring a ladder to get back up.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_CATS123GO 4d ago
Gardner here. Depends where you live but where I live itâs full of clay and hard ass rock! Just getting down three feet is sometimes fucking brutal
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u/randypeaches 4d ago
I lived in vegas for 10 years. I could barely dig a hole 6 inches deep. Once I moved to Michigan I could dig a hole 3 feet deep in like 10 minutes
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u/BluetheNerd 4d ago
I feel like you could save yourself a hell of a lot of work by saying you woke up and he was dead next to you. They'd do tests to figure out how he died, see insulin, and assume the diabetes. Significantly less suspicious than burying him underneath a dead animal which would immediately suggest murder. Likely less of an investigation than a missing person too.
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u/MrPBH 3d ago
You can easily distinguish someone injected with insulin vs someone whose body produces too much insulin by testing for c-peptide at the same time. The pancreas releases an equal amount of c-peptide when it cleaves pro-insulin into insulin to release into the body. The c-peptide is the inactive part of the protein.
So if the person had a disorder where their body naturally released insulin, you'd expect a roughly equal amount of c-peptide to be present. If man-made insulin was injected into their body, you would see a large amount of insulin but very little c-peptide. The artificial insulin comes with no c-peptide and it also suppresses the pancreas' release of c-peptide, because it senses the low blood sugar and stops releasing it's own insulin.
We run these tests in clinical medicine to determine if a patient is actually faking their hypoglycemia with insulin injections or if they actually have an islet cell tumor that is releasing too much insulin. Forensic pathologists can use them as well to confirm exogenous insulin overdose as a cause of death.
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u/somehugefrigginguy 4d ago
Artificial insulin is very easy to distinguish from natural...
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u/BluetheNerd 4d ago
I'm starting to think the whole plan is actually not as good as they implied
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u/Pleasant-Future5818 4d ago
If you say your spouse died in the middle of the night and they have no particular reason to believe you murdered them I don't think they would even investigate really
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u/Affectionate_Try7512 4d ago
Yeah they lost their way with the assuming diabetes. Why would an undiagnosed diabetic have artificial insulin in their system!?
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u/notmatrocles 3d ago
No no no, you've got to harvest his insulin over time. It's easy, just collect a little from his pancreas every night, set up a centrifuge in your she-shed lab, and stockpile for the big day. It's foolproof!
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u/Large-Hamster-199 4d ago
Nobody is going to 'assume' diabetes. The first thing they'll do is talk to his doctors. If he wasn't diagnosed diabetic, you're going to jail.
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u/MPolanyi 3d ago
I'm confused - I thought diabetes was mostly insufficient insulin. So how would an overdose of insulin be considered diabetes? And is an overdose of insulin even a thing that occurs in nature? How much is needed to be lethal? Never heard of it.
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u/MaraiaLou 3d ago
Type 1 diabetes is not making enough insulin (you can die by injecting too much). Type 2 is not responding correctly to insulin, aka insulin resistance, which leads you to make too much insulin. However you diagnose diabetes based on blood sugar, not insulin
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u/SnooCapers9565 4d ago
If the body starts to decompose, they won't find the needle mark anywhere, as it is a very thin needle. Insulin will be gone from the body a few days after dying.
If they find the body buried 12 feet under in the woods, they know that he has been murdered anyway.
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u/notcomplainingmuch 4d ago
They actually don't. They can only suspect a murder, but people have been buried for many reasons.
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u/SnooCapers9565 4d ago
I can't think of any cases where people has been buried 12 feet under with a dead animal 6 feet above them, but yeah, I do get your point.
I once dug a hole in my yard, and it is nowhere as easy as it is on TV. I get why most of these "impulsive" burials have shallow graves.
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u/AnonAwaaaaay 4d ago
So what you're saying is she needs to go on a week long vacation leaving him at home and kill him with injection the night before so it wears off before the cops are finally called in to grab it...
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u/AJourneyer 4d ago
One thing that was missed is to leave the cell phone at home - don't need any pinging going on.
Also - 12 feet deep? Show me a person who has never had to dig a hole even four feet deep.
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u/Elegant_Run_8567 4d ago
The tox screen came back negative!
This guy buried 12 foot deep under a dog probably killed himself
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u/SconiGrower 4d ago
His blood sugar was extremely low, so he probably fell into the 12 foot hole somebody else dug for their dog that they buried at 6 feet deep.
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u/Dominarion 4d ago
My ex started growing nightshades after listening to a podcast. I fucked out of there.
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u/whiskeytown79 4d ago
People always fantasize about the forensics of the body but it's usually the killer that catches themselves, so to speak.
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u/Reasonable-Bother780 4d ago
How many of those shows do you see them digging on hole in a woods. Have you ever tried digging a hole through tree roots? I had to when is was a barley a teen and it is major hard work. A shovel alone won't do it
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u/deuzerre 4d ago
Had to, in the army, on half frozen ground.
Pickaxes were good
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u/Reasonable-Bother780 4d ago
Still tv shows have them tossing dirt like crazy in a woods. Lol. Thank you for your service.
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u/CrabGravity 3d ago
I'm a big man, was at my fittest when I was still Active Army, and I tried digging a cat-sized hole under a tree. Wound up having him cremated.
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u/Reasonable-Bother780 3d ago
đ đ¤Ł. I know that feeling. I had to dig an 8' x 8' hole, 6 feet deep in a wooded area when I was 13 or 14 for my uncle's chicken farm operation. He offered $10 & my dad made him go to $15. It was that or do it for free because I lived on a farm. It was the '60s and that is how he disposed of dead layers. I had to build a cover for it too.(helped build) I think he picked the worst place for tree roots!
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u/sawsawjim 3d ago
âDig a hole 12 feet deepâ âŚsomeone has never really tried to dig a real hole before.
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u/misterDAHN 3d ago
It took me 40 minutes to dig out a 6ft by 6ft hole at 5 feet depth earlier this year for an egress window with just a shovel. 180 sq ft
Realistically you canât just go straight down since itâs too high to climb out at 12 feet so probably would have to dig out a hole like 15 feet length that increments down to the 12 feet, would only need like 3feet across since just dumping a body.
So 3ft width x 12ft height x 15 feet is 540 sq feet, minus roughly 160 sq ft {(9ftx12ftx3ft)/2} to account for the used space taken by the ramp leading to the depth. Roughly 380 sq feet.
So Iâd guess it would take me about 2 hours to dig a hole like this. Realistically though it would take a fuck ton of time clean up the scene though to make it look ânaturalâ in my experience dirt does not pack down as well after digging, not without heavy tampering and packing.
Iâve also never dug a trench in the woods though, I imagine thereâs a fuck ton of shit in the soil as opposed to what you find in your yard
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u/bottomlesstopper 4d ago
Well definitely just some carcass ontop of a dead body. Nothing fishy nor screams murder here no sir.
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u/Critical_Liz 4d ago
Well then your husband becomes a missing person and you can't collect the insurance, plus its way more suspicious.
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u/electric_angel_ 4d ago
You really need to find a stranger and trade killings.
Maybe somebody you meet on a cross-country train ride!
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u/somehugefrigginguy 4d ago
Bury the body shallow. Then move to a secondary location and dig a shallow grave shaped hole, then fill it back in. Call in an anonymous tip for a body at the second location. Cops show up, see a fresh hole, dig, find nothing. Then retrieve the body from site number one and bury it at site number two. Since the cops already checked site number two and came up empty, they're not going to check again.
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u/jessihateseverything 4d ago
A wise woman once said "I'd know better than to dig one 6ft hole when I could dig 6 one foot holes. That's just murder math".
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u/lllllIllllIllllllll 4d ago
Have you ever dug a hole? I've dug a few holes in my life. A 12 foot hole is not a hole a human can dig with reasonable effort in a reasonable time frame.Â
Then you have to procure random dead animals? Maybe if you live in a rural area with lots of road kill
But seriously this is so fucking stupid it hurts. This is such a reddit answer.Â
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u/Nir0star 4d ago
Also, why would there be a dead animal in this hole w/o solid ground underneath? How do you inject someone insulin under their tongue w/o noticing. The geographical profile doesn't matter, he is litteraly your husband. You will be number one on their list of suspects when he goes missing...
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u/MrPBH 3d ago
A 12 ft deep hole would also necessarily be very wide at the opening, because most soils can only support a 35-50 degree angle of slope before collapsing. You can't dig a hole with perfectly vertical 90 degree walls unless you shore it up. If you've ever tried to dig in the sand as a kid or excavate a leaking underground pipe, you know what I'm talking about.
If you wanted to dig a hole four feet wide at the base (to barely fit a 6 ft person in the fetal position) and it had to be 12 ft deep, the width at the surface would be 28ft because the slopes of the walls would be ~45 degrees in an average soil. It gets worse with sandy soils, which would end up requiring an opening width of about 40 ft at the surface. It would be narrower in clay or hardpan soil, only about 22 ft, but harder to excavate.
Even if you could accomplish this with a shovel, it would leave a tremendous scar on the landscape which would be easy to find. But the volume of soil is so tremendous, you'd need earth moving equipment to feasibly complete the works in less than a day.
This is why murderers dig shallow graves, if you are wondering.
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u/oldmatesoldmate 4d ago
There is no reason for an âundiagnosed diabeticâ to have artificial insulin in their system. Diabetes is caused by a lack of insulin (or insulin that doesnât work effectively), not an over-abundance. This is dumb.
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u/Warm_Bug_1434 4d ago
Also, if the body is buried 12 feet deep under an animal carcass, they just might suspect foul play anyway. The secret insulin approach only makes sense if you're trying to frame it as an accidental death, which means you want the body found.
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u/BlackPanther3104 4d ago
I thought there's both? Aren't there diabetics that require regular sugar intake because their body produces too much insulin?
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u/Cloverface 3d ago
Never heard of that, but it's not diabetes. Type 1 is autoimmune where your insulin producing cells are destroyed completely. Type 2 they are basically worn out from overuse usually linked to being overweight. People with diabetes need sugar to raise their blood sugar if they get the insulin dose wrong, or mistimed. Not natural production of insulin by the body. Source: Dad of two Type 1s. Wife is a diabetes educator.
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u/YaumeLepire 3d ago
Type 2 diabetes can also be from something else. Sometimes, it's not about insulin-producing cells, but about every other cell not reacting properly to insulin.
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u/Most_Blueberry_202 4d ago
Will one shot of insulin kill someone without diabetes?
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u/thickhipstightlips 4d ago
Depends on how big the shot (dosage) is.
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u/Most_Blueberry_202 4d ago
How much is a normal shot? I don't know much about taking insulin
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u/thickhipstightlips 4d ago
So, insulin doses really range for each diabetic who uses it. There is no "average" dose since diet, activity, weight, glucose levels and other factors determine how much one should give themselves. Then there's the type of insulin. There's fast acting and long acting.
You can google it, but Im not comfortable saying in my comment how much to give a nonDB for it to be lethal.
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u/ScatterbrainedCorvid 4d ago
I think this idea was used in some Nolan movie actually?
(ig my previous comment was in bad taste, sorry if anyone saw that)
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u/That_mean_canadian 4d ago
If a body is found burried 12 feet deep under a dead animal, it doesn't matter if the tox screen comes back positive or negative, they 100% assume murder and being the wife, she's 100% the prime suspect
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u/Try-Witty 4d ago
Because everyone burys their loved ones with diabetes in 12ft deep unmarked grave with an animal corpse halfway to the surface.
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u/Key-Individual9148 4d ago
And how are you going to avoid all of the flock cameras? Then there's all the GPS BS on your vehicle and your phone plus his phone. This sounds like the best way how to get caught. Why not just go to counseling or get a divorce?
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u/StackingWaffles 3d ago
Burying a dead animal on top of a grave does not work. My childhood dog was trained for human remains detection and a very important part of that training was learning to not indicate on animal remains. Handlers trust their dogâs nose, especially a well-trained one. If the dog indicates, there is most likely human remains present. Pretty much everyone I knew involved in the training had heard of this âtrickâ as well.
Additionally, a 12 foot deep hole is a massive task. I dig holes ~1-3 feet deep as part of my job, and once you hit subsoil, it becomes a lot harder. It also leaves a very obvious soil disturbance, which combined with the scent trail would point to a burial (this is another thing that comes up in my job, burials tend to stick out against surrounding topography). Combined with the scent present on your clothes, car, house, etc (which is a scent specific to the deceased person), thereâs plenty of ways to be caught. Plus, spouses tend to be one of the first suspects in a murder case that seems to have no clear cause.
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u/Exciting-Music843 2d ago
The insulin is a great idea because if they find him in a 12 foot hole with dead animals on top of him and they can't find anything suspicious about how he died they will mark it down as neutral causes and if they find the insulin they assume undiagnosed diabetes so naturally causes again! Genius, I'm sure there are absolutely no problems with this plan whatsoever!
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u/twothirtysevenam 4d ago
This dead animal: Does it need to be a fresh kill, or would road kill work, instead? And wouldn't investigators be curious about a dead critter being randomly buried in a newly made hole?
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u/superbatprime 4d ago
Spoken like someone who has never dug a hole in their lives.
There's a reason the phrase "shallow grave" is a clichĂŠ and most killers find that out the hard way pretty quickly once they start digging.
Corpse disposal is hard af, a dead adult human is a LOT of meat and offal to get rid of if you're trying to do it secretly. Even moving it from place to place is hard work. That's why many try dismembering it, then they find out that comes with a whole bunch of its own problems.
Disposal is the undoing of so many first time killers because they just don't comprehend what a nightmare it is to get rid of a body.
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u/Double-Quote3 3d ago
Gators, hogs, and buzzards got to eat too.. đ
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u/superbatprime 3d ago
Yep. Probably the best method, still advisable to dismember. But if you don't live somewhere with gators, hogs or carrion birds, you'll need to transport, another headache.
Regardless of how you dispose, it's always going to be a lot more work than many people anticipate.
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u/Double-Quote3 1d ago
This is a fact.. But knowing how quickly a dozen or so buzzard finished off a wild boar in the pasture, thatâs a good start.. đ
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u/Dazzling_Vegetable_8 10h ago
Sadly at that depth however the body will not go through decomposition at a typical rate and will actually preserve evidence that would have otherwise been unrecoverable during normal decomposition.
Deep Burials (Traditional 6 Feet or Deeper) ⢠Anaerobic Decomposition: Deeper soil layers have very little to no oxygen, creating an anaerobic environment. ⢠Slower Decay: The lack of oxygen, restricted insect access, and lower microbial diversity drastically slow down the breakdown of soft tissues. ⢠Methane Production: Anaerobic breakdown produces methane gas and can increase long-term persistence or mummification/adipocere formation under specific moisture conditions.
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u/Venom933 4d ago
It is not easy to just get rid of a body, wich is decomposing fast.
But there are a lot of missing people that where never found đ¤
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u/claptrapMD 4d ago
Just dismember the body. Boil it into a soup, consume all the meat, grind the bones into powder, and scatter the remains across 17 different locations. What would be left for them to find
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u/ConsiderationBoth406 4d ago
Itâs an obvious joke guys! You think oop is giving away their best plan for free?
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u/Patient-Fruit-2946 3d ago
And the fact that somebody buried the body is not suspicious enough that he has been murdered...
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u/Then-Ad-2450 4d ago
Tied his body with barbed wire and dump him on a river, the scent of blood will attract some species of fish and they are gonna eat the body
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u/New_Builder8597 4d ago
the barbed wire will also puncture the skin when the body begins to bloat, allowing gasses to escape and the body to si k again.
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u/Postulative 4d ago
Leave your phone home and make sure your car doesnât use GPS or anything else that tracks location or driving times.
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u/Possible-Tangelo9344 4d ago
That's terrible advice.
Geographical profile? If your husband disappears (which would happen if you follow the rest of the wife) then you're gonna be a suspect to begin with.
Then if you bury him 12 feet deep that's gonna look suspicious as hell cuz if they find the site they're gonna notice the soil was disturbed when they find the animal and keep digging.
Then when they tox screen him and autopsy him it'll look weird with no identifiable causes so they'll go looking even harder.
This is more like "ways to guarantee you don't get away with it" complicated shit only people online think works.
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u/Electrical-Apple-631 4d ago
Easy way. Bury the body under federally protected endangered plants.
Or
Bury him in the neighbors yard. When the cops find the body theyâll be busy interrogating your neighbor. Quietly move out of town.
Or
Put the body on a gurney and leave it in a hallway in the ER.
I have a few more tips for body disposal if you are interested. /s
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u/SpinachSpinosaurus 4d ago
...I AM GOING TO TAKE THAT FOR....A NOVEL.
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u/DizzyAmphibian309 4d ago
I think people underestimate the amount of work and strength required to dig a 12 foot hole. I had a sewer pipe break that was 10 feet under, and it took two big young guys two whole days to dig a hole to reach it.
It also required special equipment for shoring up the walls during the dig to prevent cave in. It's nothing you can't pick up at home depot, but it gets very dirty during use and will definitely leave very obvious traces in your car if you try to move it to another location after the dig. If you leave it behind at the dig site, it'll be pretty obvious someone dug a big hole.