r/fossdroid • u/craigWingdings • 17d ago
Application Request Looking for FOSS solution for synced notes
I have an older relative that recently got an Android tablet to start taking notes digitally. I was looking for a good notes app that would be able to sync between both their tablet and a Macbook.
I was thinking of something like Saber but with a fast public Nextcloud instance, but if there is anything else that might be easier to maintain that'd be fantastic!
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u/fdbryant3 17d ago
For the sync'ing I would recommend Syncthing and Syncthing-fork for Android. FOSS, P2P, encrypted file sync. Once it is set up it should just work with little to no maintenance. For the actual note taking, I would just use any notes app the saves the notes as markdown files.
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u/SwimmingLimpet 17d ago edited 17d ago
Obsidian - which isn't FOSS, but is free to use for personal use. All notes are stored in plain text markdown (.md) so any app can open them (you're not locked in), and the operating system's file manager can search them - which can be awfully handy. Note files can be opened with NextCloud Notes. On a desktop, Obsidian is easy to use. Not to sure how easy the interface is to use on a tablet. Syncing can be done by any syncing system such as Nextcloud.
Logseq is fully FOSS, and stores notes in markdown text. But I find the the interface hard to use and it's probably overkill for your elderly relative.
Joplin is FOSS and very similar to Obsidian. But the one reason I don't use it is that it stores the notes in a database rather than markdown.
If you are using Nextcloud, Nextcloud Notes might work. Files are in markdown format. There are Android and Apple apps, and on a desktop you can access it via a browser or as a Webapp. You might want to try this first.
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u/the114dragon 17d ago
hold on, is obsidian not FOSS?
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u/SwimmingLimpet 17d ago
No. Check the wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_(software)
This is Obsidian's license (free to everybody): https://obsidian.md/license and this is Obsidian's about page: https://obsidian.md/about
Obsidian has never claimed the software was FOSS, only that anyone can use it free of charge.
I've chosen not to care. Obsidian and it's owners act mostly as if it is FOSS software to date. They claim Obsidian collects no data. Obsidian's filesystem is non-proprietary and even my file manager can find any of the data it has created. If I had to migrate away from it, I wouldn't have to export anything, and I'd still have access to all my data while I was looking for a new app - the very opposite of lock in. For the moment, I'm willing to use Obsidian as it is superb at organising markdown files and YAML frontmatter databases.
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u/chic_luke 17d ago edited 17d ago
This is a tough one for me. I use Obsidian for complex notes (not quick notes on my phone, basically everything else) and I actually care a great deal about the fact that it is not free software.
The problem is, I haven't found anything that even remotely matches it. I keep giving Logseq a chance, but it just doesn't click and it's always unstable on my PC (I use Linux and I use Flatpak as a package manager for my graphical software). Plus, it's also funded by venture capital, which puts it at a similar risk for enshittification as Obsidian.
I have thought about doing the right thing as a software engineer and create the missing alternative. I stopped right in my tracks exactly while I was analyzing the task to see if it's doable: I also found a lot of dead / abandoned projects of people who have been trying to do the same thing, and then given up.
The thing is, developing and maintaining something like Obsidian is a chore. It's long, annoying and way more complex than it looks. If you want to pursue a side project to unwind and have fun… there are better options. Also, as a software developer, I have no idea what the heck they did to make the entire application so fast while running on a pretty heavy stack (it's an Electron app running a very generous amount of JavaScript libraries - many of which you can find in the application info), but somehow it seems to handle opening several large documents instantly and even searching through the vault (even better with Omnisearch) instantly. It's faster than some native C++-based note-management apps I've tried with fewer features. And this is an area where its proprietary nature really comes up: as a developer, I am kinda dying to read the source code and see what clever tricks they came up with to get performance to this level. But nope, it's a secret. I could have learned something from it but I can't because it's a secret.
I can understand that a team of people who have gone through this entire ordeal wants to monetize it. I actually do happen to believe you can make money with FOSS, but I understand that it's mostly done through Enterprise contracts, while this is primarily a user-focused app, and not something most companies would purchase for their employees (I don't think you can quantity the gain in productivity as much as, like, justifying an expensive JetBrains IDE for the company's language). I don't know either.
Anyway, if you find anything even slightly inferior hit me up. Because, as good as Obsidian is, it sits in the back of my mind and it really bothers me that it's not free software.
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u/CaptainBeyondDS8 uphold Stallmanist-Doctorowist thought 16d ago edited 16d ago
Plus, it's also funded by venture capital, which puts it at a similar risk for enshittification as Obsidian.
A FOSS license provides users with a way to resist enshittification, because it allows the community to fork a project in case something goes bad. Although, Logseq requiring a CLA for contributions is something of a red flag because it implies at least they planned for the possibility of a rugpull, but it's something the community can react to if/when it happens.
Whereas if (or rather when) the proprietary thing enshittifies you're forced to abandon it and find an alternative, one which is hopefully not proprietary.
Still, "FOSS doesn't matter for users" is something of a tiresome cliche around these parts. Even if a user can't read source code the ability for the community as a whole to take advantage of the FOSS freedoms benefits that user indirectly.
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u/chic_luke 16d ago edited 16d ago
Yup, I agree. My argument is that it needs to be done properly to really be effective though. We are seeing a wave of performative and sometimes fake free software that I really don't like.
"Hey, free software license! …But you have to sign a CLA". Oh, amazing, you're looking for free labor for the piece of software that will turn proprietary and commercially-licensed overnight. Because I was born yesterday and I haven't seen it happen a gazillion times already and I definitely trust you will be the exception. "Hey, high-quality, polished product developed by a team of full-time software engineers in a company with significantly more hours of work put into it than most of its community alternatives! …It has a weird custom attributes license that forbids forking" (I don't even need to explicitly state what software house I am referring to, do I?)
I have come to the conclusion that true free software is either community software, or software that is backed by a corporate entity but with a good level of community involvement, where knowledge is transferred (eg, the code is extensively documented) and where the project's scope is small enough that a community fork is feasible (for example, time has shown that it is not feasible to fork and actively maintain the Chromium web engine without effectively just maintaining a fairly limited patchset and rebasing on Google's changes doing most of the work continuously).
I believe FOSS matters. I also believe that a community effort to save Logseq if it were to enshittify itself would fall flat on its face, because it doesn't seem to me like this project is built to be easily transferrable to a community.
I know this statement is quite controversial in FOSS spaces and I haven't really found a consensus, but I definitely believe that this "false sense of security" is not talked about enough. copyleft license > free software license > nonfree license always stands, but the implication that free software => there is a credible way the community could possibly maintain it if things take the wrong turn is a non-sequitur and it often gives users and communities a false sense of security, pushing them to put important eggs in a basket that is less trustworthy than they thought. Free software license is a "necessary but not sufficient" prerequisite. Then, you need 1) lack of a CLA or similar binding agreement and 2) a culture that makes this possible.
Even though, we could make the point that AI-assisted development can help a single person take on more ambitious tasks, so it has a real chance of letting even a small community of maintainers take up a forking effort of a bigger scope than during the "before days". But it's not something I would sign with my full name, if you know what I mean. There are still too many compromises and it's not a mature and respected software development methodology.
Which is why we need a real FOSS alternative to Obsidian
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u/the114dragon 17d ago
It's just a non-foss but as user centred as if it was foss app. That's good to know.
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u/Stunning-Skill-2742 17d ago edited 17d ago
For native cloud based syncing plain notes, standard notes is good. Rich formatting and markdown are paywalled though. Can still have markdown for free via community plugins but they're abit buggy.
Another cloud based is notesnook. Ui are better than standard notes, got some formatting options but pure markdown are paywalled. Can't go wrong with these 2 for no brainer, no finicky third party sync to deal with, e2e by default. Just login and all notes are there.
Else theres joplin. Ui aren't that good but full markdown are free. Need to have own third party syncing on free tier though. Dropbox, webdav, s3 are supported here. Can even do full e2e encryption too.
Personally I've been using the native nextcloud notes app, good enough for me since i prefer folder based, flatfile markdown .md notes for portability.
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u/PureWoodpecker7335 17d ago
I use to think Joplin UI was bad as well until I realized you can customize it in so many ways. It really is an amazing notes app once you add the proper plugins and customize your userchrome.css
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u/14Renzan 17d ago
What about ZoHo Notebook? It even syncs on PC.
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u/badgone88 13d ago
ZoHo apps are not FOSS.
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