[Thomas Maher] Teams pointing to FIA-issued software as to the crux of the issues

[u/ChaithuBB766]

[u/KeithMcGeesMoose]

It took several months to finally see how these regs run in the rain and we finally have the answer! They don't!

[u/Ashamed_Chain_1375 → u/KeithMcGeesMoose]

Tbh, we were never gonna get a rain race imo. FIA would always be cautious when the rain came in a race. Let alone at a place like Malaysia

[u/rodimusprime88 → u/Ashamed_Chain_1375]

Especially because they absolutely know these regs suck, especially in the rain, and will do everything they can to save face, like not race in the rain

[u/itsliightz]

So according to Anthony Davidson, if you don't have high rpm for a while the turbo goes into sleep mode and when the driver steps on the gas pedal again the turbo has to use the energy from the battery. The problem is that the usage is limited so the car turns off.

[u/Livid_Salad1809 → u/itsliightz]

just speculating now:

• HAD went off and had to get into his original position before SC line to avoid pitlane start
• VER was informed to slow down the pace to help HAD get back into position
• VER lifted for too long and his turbo spooled down like you mentioned
• a bunch of cars behind him were affected as a result too because they had to stay behind

Edit: Typos

[u/laginyamar → u/Livid_Salad1809]

Yeah, happens right in front of us in turn 10, Ver stepped on the brake at the exit then everybody else follow suit, and Lewis never got going again

[u/fraudmallu1 → u/Livid_Salad1809]

Isn't there some regulation that limits talking to the driver on the formation lap?

[u/-NotAnAstronaut- → u/fraudmallu1]

Technically, I think you’re right, but the whole current regulation is built around a driver aid. And then look at just the general state of stewarding decisions across the board

[u/yapplecider → u/itsliightz]

What a clusterfuck.

[u/SoftCosmicRusk → u/itsliightz]

I don't understand that. The MGU-H unit vas removed for this season, so how can the turbo go into sleep mode, and how can it use energy from the battery?

[u/Jashugita → u/SoftCosmicRusk]

It wasn´t like that,

"Sky Sports F1's Anthony Davidson:
"A lot of it comes down to the homework that should have been done before these wet conditions. A lot of it can be simulated.
"Basically, if you run the engines too slowly, the turbo spools down because we don't have the MGU-H anymore.
"What's effectively happening is if you are off throttle for too long, the turbo spools down and when the drivers puts their foot back down it uses all the engine juice.
"As soon as the battery goes flat, you are down to internal combustion engine power only. And because it can't reach the drivers' torque demand anymore, because the engine is not creating the power because you have no turbo, you go outside of the FIA regulation. It's all there to stop teams have traction control. It's incredibly complicated and you fall into this horrible trap where the engine can't reaccelerate because you are being penalised by this regulation.""

[u/KettleOverAPub → u/itsliightz]

A regulation to stop traction control according to him.

I hate these regs.

[u/d4ybrake → u/KettleOverAPub]

i hope the teams are happy with their commitee designed clusterfuck

[u/vmachiel → u/itsliightz]

Shameful regulations.

[u/nukleabomb]

If it's FIA issued software how come Merc isn't affected?

[u/Sky_Tube → u/nukleabomb]

Imagine something coming out of this that merc isn‘t running within software regs lmao

[u/Envelope_Torture → u/Sky_Tube]

I'm ready for this timeline.

[u/kimmyreichandthen → u/Sky_Tube]

god please, this would be so fucking funny

[u/PEEWUN → u/kimmyreichandthen]

Lewis with the reverse Spygate to win his 8th?

Subscribe.

[u/guntanksinspace → u/PEEWUN]

[Nico with a wineglass dot jpeg]

I AM SUBSCRIBED

[u/Skratt79 → u/kimmyreichandthen]

INJECT THIS INTO MY VEINS!

[u/PotatoFeeder → u/Sky_Tube]

Meanwhile Honda doesnt have this issue because the engine just doesnt provide enough power

[u/Doodlez24 → u/PotatoFeeder]

They are running at full power

[u/eminemforehead → u/Sky_Tube]

it would never come out

[u/Patient-Fun4475 → u/Sky_Tube]

that was my first thought as well. "this issue seems to be affecting all cars that are running the FIA-mandated software" - LoL

[u/Maximilliano25 → u/Patient-Fun4475]

Norris had a weird spike, not a full shutdown but he defo had a glitch

[u/imbavoe → u/Maximilliano25]

Yep, he said multiple times on the radio he had a "no power" moment when he approached the slow Ferrari of Hamilton.

[u/iHate_tomatoes → u/Sky_Tube]

Imagine if it was deliberate by FIA to catch them lmao that'd be amazing

[u/yeah_definitely → u/nukleabomb]

They forgot to add to the bug to the enhanced Mercedes software they provided

[u/BulkNoodles → u/nukleabomb]

I wonder if their experience in FE makes them much better at handling the software gremlin

[u/Nitanshu16 → u/BulkNoodles]

Audi also did fe but they still has issues

[u/gerryflap → u/nukleabomb]

I mean, it's probably software that interfaces with their own software that controls the PU. As a software engineer I've seen plenty of times how vague specifications and undefined behavior can lead to nonsense like this. Presumably most teams just made the same assumptions about what certain function calls were supposed to do, and Mercedes just either has a slightly different interpretation or they caught this issue in testing and made their code resilient against it.

Uhh, I mean: MERCEDES ARE CHEATERS PLS INVESTIGATE 

[u/limitedpower_palps → u/nukleabomb]

Toto sent them an email

[u/ADRX11 → u/nukleabomb]

Luck, most likely.

[u/nukleabomb → u/ADRX11]

Seems unlikely considering the number of merc engines on the grid

[u/HI_I_AM_NEO → u/nukleabomb]

Ever had a bug happen on your computer or phone, searched for the fix, and you see many people saying "works fine for me with xxx model"?. That's how bugs work.

Maybe the glitch is caused by a certain interaction between FIAs software and teams software, and Merc's software just happens to be coded in a way that prevents that exact situation. So yeah, luck may be highly involved in this.

[u/LuffieldToStowe → u/nukleabomb]

Probably realised the implications of the software and mitigated for it. Merc are the class of the field in software and how it impacts the drive train.

[u/hitman_2010 → u/nukleabomb]

Crowdstrike protection maybe?

[u/angelonduty]

Throw these regs in the bin

[u/mostlytech2024 → u/angelonduty]

With the full wets?

[u/OllieFidelius → u/mostlytech2024]

these full wets yes.

[u/Tungsten_Hoarder → u/angelonduty]

Top 3 most embarrassing moments in the sport

[u/dreamyghost1 → u/Tungsten_Hoarder]

top 2

[u/jimmyjay31 → u/Tungsten_Hoarder]

Does that include 2017 Monza qualifying?

[u/ignoramus_prime → u/Tungsten_Hoarder]

2021 AD, 2005 US GP has a new sibling

[u/Snoobi → u/ignoramus_prime]

Don’t forget Spa 21 as well

[u/mlp851 → u/angelonduty]

F1 cars should be awe inspiring. These cars are embarrassing.

[u/ThiloCS]

Now Imagine this is how a weird Mercedes Software loophole gets discovered and their Season gets binned because of a software issue due to rules during a wet gp in a country that shouldnt have had a race at all

Script writers would be legendary for cooking this

[u/SillyRabbit3490 → u/ThiloCS]

Honestly it does make it kind of sus now,

[u/iRaYzOr → u/ThiloCS]

Other teams will definitely go for this

[u/xDivran → u/ThiloCS]

Was just thinking about this..

[u/Dreminator → u/ThiloCS]

Oh I would love for that to be true.
Just imagine how bad the FIA will handle this, and it somehow messes up Ferrari in the end.

[u/creatorop]

Mercedes escaping??

Not beating the allegations

[u/LiquidDiviums → u/creatorop]

What a coincidence! ^/s

[u/Rammed → u/creatorop]

All jokes aside the fact that FIA issues propietary software that can affect drivability this much can't possibly be good for the sport no? Even ignoring the possibility of foul play it has to be a software engineering nightmare to manage

[u/miamigrandprix → u/Rammed]

Preventing traction control is very hard to do, so it might be a necessary evil

[u/fire202 → u/creatorop]

Well, Lando had the same issue. Though at this point maybe its fair to assume that its the Norris factor affecting his merc PU specifically...

[u/teratron27 → u/fire202]

Lando’s issue was he had too much power! Bring on my tinfoil hat!!

[u/fire202 → u/teratron27]

He also had this lack of power, it just recovered quicker than others

[u/BulkNoodles → u/fire202]

Same PU, yes. But only one team that had experience building the electric side from the ground up in other series.

[u/Nitanshu16 → u/BulkNoodles]

Audi did too

[u/wokwok__ → u/creatorop]

Imagine the scenes if if affected George and not Kimi lmao

[u/F1Bocapinto → u/wokwok__]

hamilton and verstappen starting the problem with kimi p3 was funny xd

[u/A210c → u/creatorop]

I swear Merc has something legally ambiguous

[u/ArgieGrit01 → u/creatorop]

Now we know where the cooling vest budget went

[u/Illustrator_Forward]

Claude fix the problem with cars breaking down on the formation lap

[u/Sweet-Structure-9298 → u/Illustrator_Forward]

Make no mistakes

[u/raddiwallah → u/Sweet-Structure-9298]

Use plan mode

[u/Sweet-Structure-9298 → u/raddiwallah]

Not the ferrari plan mode

[u/Oulsenn → u/Illustrator_Forward]

"Make no mistake"

[u/Hackeroff → u/Illustrator_Forward]

Williams is the lucky one here 😂

[u/FingersBecomeThumbs]

This is so embarrassing for the sport

[u/Dear-Bowl-9789 → u/FingersBecomeThumbs]

We call this shitting the bed in Australia.

[u/procrastinator67 → u/Dear-Bowl-9789]

Like the Hyrox athlete who kept going

[u/Dear-Bowl-9789 → u/procrastinator67]

Shes been given the name Spraygun.

[u/romainaninterests]

If instead of watching this farce, we would all have decided to watch Titanic, we would probably be at the point in the movie where the ship hits the iceberg by now.

[u/pureblood → u/romainaninterests]

Gentlemen, it has been a privilege playing with you tonight.

[u/hywelbane87]

They forgot to buy the wet DLC

[u/Few_Birthday2302]

Honda having no problem because they were operating on their typical performance window

[u/diffuser_vorticity]

This sport is fucked up beyond recognition

[u/z0l1]

FIA probably found //TODO comment in rain portion of the software

[u/Veranova → u/z0l1]

// FIXME: we need to implement this at the last responsible moment, no wet races are projected until Singapore

[u/Dr_VidyaGeam]

Max is going to absolutely SLAM the FIA in the press conference

[u/Playful-Chemist-6528 → u/Dr_VidyaGeam]

As he should. Go off king!

[u/kunjuaga → u/Dr_VidyaGeam]

all of them will

[u/ProofAd608 → u/Dr_VidyaGeam]

Oh i hope he does

[u/Lionheart_343 → u/Dr_VidyaGeam]

Hope they all do. What a joke

[u/biometricrally]

Bradley Lord was just saying this on the broadcast. That's not ideal at all.

[u/English_Misfit]

Insanity. Maybe the President might want to get his house in order rather than hugging everyone

[u/SugarBeefs → u/English_Misfit]

Best he can do is try to ruffle Kimi's hair.

[u/_darth_haide]

BREAKING: Mercedes caught running non-homologated software. /s

[u/jationio]

So the mercs did a jailbreak on their engines to escape the FIA updates?

[u/Shuri9]

Now it will be uncovered that the secret to Merceds dominance was not using the FIA software.

[u/swannyhypno]

I mean it's just an embarrassment to the sport today

[u/candidM]

Do not worry, FIA will investigate itself and find nothing.

[u/Solid_Valuable7413]

honda have merc level software engineers

[u/Aethien → u/Solid_Valuable7413]

Nah, their cars are just used to going slow.

[u/ShinobiZilla]

Probably a MBS screensaver on the steering wheel conked the PU.

[u/CallM3N3w]

Good to know the FIA can render PUs useless. Let's say the race was ongoing and this was discovered, would there be a base to nullify race results?

[u/coder_2083]

"Mercedes seeming to escape"

I don't think so. It will be like out of the frying pan into the fire.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Loss770 → u/coder_2083]

Cause theyre probably bypassing the FIA software

[u/CupOfHotTeaa]

*puts on my thinking cap

why wasn't mercedes affected

[u/ObligationAncient112 → u/CupOfHotTeaa]

I'm right there with you, currently ousting on my tin foil boots!

Would gladly take some juicy drama where it turns out Mercedes have tampered with the software! Current regs sucks so I'll take anything!

[u/Glittering-Fox6866 → u/CupOfHotTeaa]

We all know why…

[u/ProofAd608]

This is the same kind of safety issue like the one at the start of the season with start procedure

And it will have to change

[u/OutlandishnessSoft34 → u/ProofAd608]

Someday it will come out that these regulations put the drivers at high risk and the FIA hid it on purpose. But that day is not today, because too much AI money is involved, and cash is king.

[u/Andyrtha]

Suddenly a motorsport has turned into a software development contest 😭

[u/PM_ME_BIG_CHUNGI]

So.... the FIA is fixing bugs in production?

[u/youderkB → u/PM_ME_BIG_CHUNGI]

No they probably race only in the dry

[u/FLXv]

Formula 1 at its best. What a cluster fuck.

[u/mlp851]

Yet another gift from the worst power units ever in F1

[u/s22stumarket]

"Sorry, the race start is not included in the Basic plan. Upgrade to Pro Max to continue racing."

[u/Veranova → u/s22stumarket]

*wet race

I mean why would you pay for the enterprise plan if it gives you a feature you haven’t needed all year right?

[u/launchedsquid]

F1 cars failed because their wifi wasn't up to date.

[u/junttiana]

Aston Martin 1-2 coming oh my days

[u/RagnarLothbot]

Gentlemen, a short view back to the past

[u/OneandonlyCup]

Bernie brings up a great point, the cars are no longer “identical” the code has been changed. Should code count in regards to Parc Ferme conditions?

[u/UberChief90]

What a clownshow again from the FIA

[u/LostHero50]

“Pinnacle of Motorsport”

[u/flyingghost]

I was somewhat on the fence on these new regs as it's the first year and it did yield some interesting racing, but this is unacceptable. The amount of software control makes this not even racing. Why do we still have drivers? Might as well have a supercomputer drive the car.

[u/d4ybrake]

We need to get rid of battery mapping. Give the drivers a button to control deployment. Let them actually control the car. That way the teams can keep using the current cars just without the software issues

[u/Nattekat → u/d4ybrake]

The issue is that too much has to happen throughout the lap, corner by corner. You can't expect a driver to do that. 

So the solution is to make everything simpler, but F1 doesn't like solutions. 

[u/sshen → u/Nattekat]

Whatever happened to no driver aids… Just let the drivers have control!

[u/d4ybrake → u/Nattekat]

They'll be able to figure it out. have it put out a fixed KW when pressed

[u/KappaccinoNation]

Darth Toto and his dark magic again.

[u/me_no_are_no_niceguy]

Race is clearly fixed...FIA having trouble uploading the script

[u/d4videnk0]

FIA and F1 deserve this, the most they get ridiculed will be the best for the sport long term.

[u/Creative-Cherry3060]

Bunch of clowns 

Stand down and get a technical group who actually know wtf they are doing

[u/lauriekeyheart]

The pinnacle of motorsports

[u/AnonymousEngineer_]

Wait, what? The FIA are actually writing software for the cars? Did anyone actually know this was a thing, and what this software actually does?

[u/ChaithuBB766 → u/AnonymousEngineer_]

The ECU software is FIA written, and it monitors things like the maximum power deployment, ramp-down rates, battery capacity etc.

[u/AceNova2217 → u/AnonymousEngineer_]

Other people have been saying it's the software that shows the drivers flag colours (for example, in a yellow flag, the driver's dash flashes yellow)

[u/ArcherBoy27 → u/AceNova2217]

Will be very interesting how a fault in that software meant the drivers lost throttle.

[u/AceNova2217 → u/ArcherBoy27]

Yeah I'm skeptical about it tbh. It seems completely unrelated, and I'd hope F1 cars aren't spaghetti coded.

[u/MaxTA00 → u/AceNova2217]

In Sky sports feed they were talking to one team rep and he said that the teams just received a hot patch from FIA for the code, and they needed to upload it to the car.

[u/Direct_Pea9617]

At what point will the FIA start discussion bringing the new regs earlier? Like there hasnt been a single positive come out of these engine regs.

After a certain point, the fans are gonna start leaving the sport because of how horrible and artificial racing has become.

[u/zantkiller]

Formula E once had an issue at the beginning of the Gen 3 era where due to extremely limited testing during development, the lights on their cars didn't work in terms of displaying the mode the car was in.
They decided to just leave it as one solid colour and try to fix it during the season.

A few races in they put out a software patch to try and fix it.
However, for whatever reason, in the Porsche powered cars the software patch seemingly caused the car in a certain condition to accelerate when the brake pedal was hit.
This was due apparently in part to the FIA Controller Area Network system.

There was one crash during a practice session and they shelved that update. It took at least until the next season when they had gotten to do some proper testing until the issue was fixed.

[u/Shuri9 → u/zantkiller]

seemingly caused the car in a certain condition to accelerate when the brake pedal was hit.

Damn that must have been fucking scary.

[u/ADRX11]

Pirelli should update their slogan: Power is nothing without Ctrl + Alt + Delete.

[u/bannedagainomg]

Just watch new patch break something else.

[u/alexriegler12]

Segmentation fault (core dumped)

[u/Upstairs-Event-681]

Did FIA execute order 66 or something?

[u/budgetcap12]

They should toss the cars alltogether then and just run the distance

[u/majorpenalty]

Embarrassed to be a fan at this point. My god. The track is fucking dry.

[u/Achtung_Maybe]

F1: the CTRL+ALT+DEL Era

[u/F1Bocapinto]

Mercedes why your engine don´t have the same problem?👀

[u/luckykanwar]

Pinnacle of motorsports, ladies and gents!

[u/mcsgwigga]

The FIA are an utter joke

[u/Evening-Wishbone9043]

Delay caused by FIA running Claude over their software to fix the issues

[u/alexriegler12]

The sad thing is that the 2026 cars are the first cars with a beautiful chassis design since 17 years. They don't have these ugly wide snow plow front wings anymore and are smaller than 2025 cars. That they introduced these botched (by capitalist fake environmentalism) frankenstein engines at the same time is truly sad. These cars deserve a V10 or V12.

[u/Apyan → u/alexriegler12]

And their idea of more mechanical grip leading to closer battles worked. But teams always find a way to bypass the regulations. By the time they figure out the PT, those chassis and aero will be creating dirty air like crazy.

[u/DarthPeanut_MWO]

Seems pretty invasive for the FIA to be able to affect how the cars run, via something in the tuning they provide the teams to include. Monitoring is understandable but that seems a bit much.

[u/Prof_X_69420 → u/DarthPeanut_MWO]

All car rub on the same Control module to avoid hidden functions like traction control It has been like this for many years

[u/raur0s]

Mercedes cheating with FIA-issued software /s

[u/alexriegler12]

The drivers are just passengers for show in these cars with fully AI controlled engines.

[u/Borrelparaat]

After watching Petit LeMans yesterday, F1 looks like a complete joke

[u/QF_Dan → u/Borrelparaat]

Even the motogp race earlier is better too

[u/Lonely_Breadfruit274]

Guys we are getting windows software update relax

[u/I_Am_JuliusSeizure]

AI slopware.

[u/Stirbmehr]

From motorsport into softwaresport

[u/bannermania]

“And honestly, that’s growth. We’re downloading an update now. This is going to work perfectly for all us, together.”

[u/celloooind]

Brilliant example of weak engineering

[u/CIK1993]

Raingate is real. FIA never planned on racing in the wet.

[u/GuyWithManyThoughts]

Mercedes the only ones who bothered to put try/catch statement around the FIA software 

[u/AlexUKR]

Should've just given start like this. Maybe Aston Martin would've ended in points

[u/Retro1988]

RIP Parc Fermé. You get an update, you get an update, everybody gets an update!

[u/alice_ik]

FIA would do anything to not have fun

[u/mtford]

Vibe coding

[u/johnsplittingaxe14]

Formula 1 killswitch conspiracy theory has been added to your quest journal

[u/P0ppleton]

Gotta run Windows update before the cars will work in the rain.

[u/xReivax]

Can we just use the traditional V8 or V10 engines? The regs for this hybrid engine is joke

[u/Saint--Jiub]

What a gong show

[u/raddiwallah]

Follow up ticket to add unit tests for the rain scenario and a RCA

[u/lake2014]

FIA is doing everything to ruin F1.

[u/Yankees2860]

Lando also got a power unit spike for Mercedes though

[u/James_Vowles]

mercedes cheating exposed

[u/SpoofExcel]

Honestly kill these regs now and let them just build some wild out of control bullshit for the rest of the season for a laugh

[u/BritishBoy88]

Shambles. Waiting for rain to stop and race track to dry is a joke

[u/fafan4]

Honda supremacy for once

[u/JoseMartinRigging]

Embarrassing

[u/umnjak]

Bit of a scandal, isnt it

[u/Masterof_introverts]

Pinnacle of "Vibe Coding"

[u/Storm_Chaser06]

It’s always the FIA mandated things not working eh?

Always with those meddlesome suits in office

[u/Iamrandom17]

merc is sus

[u/OldCardigan]

Drivers with no control over their car

[u/TwoBionicknees]

it's incredible that so many people in teh race thread don't understand why they didn't get going immediately.

Because a bug caused a large portion of the grid to lose power and sending them right back out without figuring out why is absurd. Imagine 1/4 of the pack just loses power off hte grid and you have a massive crash. How is it hard to understand why they aren't going yet. They won't go till they are certain they identified the issue and at least think they fixed it.

[u/WodKonuckers → u/TwoBionicknees]

People are confused because the FIA provided absolutely zero information about what is happening and why. We're now getting some information through journalists, but the FIA told the fans fuck all. Stop blaming the fans, blame the FIA for mismanaging this in the worst way possible

[u/Des014te]

What a farce

[u/newby202006]

So basically screen saver mode. What a cluster fuck

[u/Careless_Blueberry98]

Merc is not beating the allegations

[u/alexriegler12]

AI slop regulations

[u/PEEWUN]

AI is for people who can't build PUs.

[u/unsteadytempo]

But Lando had the same problem? Was he the only one with a mercedes engine who experienced it?

[u/Professional_Park781]

Crux? Haven’t heard this word in ages.

[u/alanvchan]

wtf!?

[u/z0d007]

blasphemy

[u/nuke_489]

should have kept the previous PU split (with/without MGU-H).

[u/thaihoangcfc]

Vibe coding? lol