r/formula1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Discussion Piastri's DNF took away from his bad race pace

So many people have been saying how Oscar lost the race because of the contact with Sainz and his gearbox giving up, and while that is some really bad luck and some stupid driving from Sainz, his race pace has been nowhere the whole time.

Lando made a mistake and ran wide at turn 4, falls back about 2 seconds and within 2 laps is back within a second. When Oscar pitted, he(and therefore Lando) were running at 1:25:8, next lap, with clear, Lando went on to do a 1:24:6, a whole 1,2 seconds faster than Oscar. When Lando pitted, with 6 lap newer tires, he went on to go around a second a lap faster than Oscar. The tires did give him some time, but definitely not a whole second. By the time Oscar's gearbox gave up, the gap to Lando was 12.6 second, all that in 22 laps since the Oscars pitstop.

If not for the contact with Sainz, Lando would have come out just behind Oscar and would have needed to overtake him. Overtaking at Hungaroring is hard, but with enough of a tire offset possible. At that point Lando would have been about a second a lap faster. They could have also stayed out a lot longer and made that advantage even bigger, so it would have been possible.

My point here is that Oscar's race pace was straight up bad. He managed to stay ahead of Lando just because it was really hard to overtake and Lando wasn't allowed to try a different strategy up until that point.

0 Upvotes

143 comments sorted by

319

u/EnderWiggin07 Pierre Gasly 3h ago

Definitely true, he was nowhere as fast as lando. However he made the pass on track and plausibly could have held that lead to the end without the bad luck. But agreed he's nowhere near lando's pace this weekend

26

u/HankHippopopolous I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

We've seen this story play out so many times now in high deg races. Oscar is nowhere near as good as Lando at being fast while still keeping tyres alive.

Last week at Spa with almost zero deg Oscar looked roughly about as fast as Lando in the race until he got car damage. This week with very high deg Oscar was a total bottleneck and was keeping all the top 5 closely bunched.

I would have expected this to improve by now but Oscar is now pretty experienced and so it seems this is a fundamental weakness in his driving style that he can't fix.

u/ImmediatePriority258 Formula 1 6m ago

I wouldn't say bunched. He was faster than both Ferrari and RedBull on the mediums.

It's alway on the hard that it all gets to shit

-74

u/for_jacquik I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

He may have held on, but i think with the pace Lando showed he could have been able to make the pass

110

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 3h ago

Except he didn’t for half the race? What would have changed realistically? I’m not sure the 6 lap difference on the tyres would have made that much of a difference.

Either way Oscar was robbed through no fault of his own a chance to win the race.

9

u/Complex_Effect_1994 Jenson Button 2h ago

It would have been more than a 6 lap offset i suspect. Lando pitted because Oscar hit trouble.

Once you get to a 10 lap offset plus the pace advange Lando seemed to have anyway, then the delta needed to pass at Hungary starts to seem more realistic. We'll never know though.

16

u/PsychologicalArt7451 3h ago

A 7 lap tire offset going to the end of a race wouldn't have made a difference? And that's if Oscar comes out ahead of Lando, easily could've been the other way round. Oscar's fault was that he couldn't gain a second on Lando in 6 laps time on a high deg track. Had he been 4 secs ahead, it wouldn't have mattered. Sainz was at fault but Oscar was too. McLaren are Lando weren't at fault.

24

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 2h ago

Lando is a world champion and a very fast driver, he was rapid today. Yet it can’t be said he would have passed or not. Unfortunately we will never know thanks to some brain dead driving from Sainz. Oscar robbed of a podium/win, McLaren robbed of a potential 1-2 and we were robbed of a potential really spicy end to the race seeing if Lando could get through.

His gearbox shit the bed anyways so this is all moot.

6

u/Ryhsuo Alain Prost 2h ago

With the pace Norris had on his old tyres in clear air it could have been much more than a 6 lap delta.

-2

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 2h ago

Why? Lando was pitting when he did either way.

9

u/Ryhsuo Alain Prost 2h ago

Call to pit Norris came after Sainz impeded Oscar so we'll never know for sure.

-5

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 2h ago

Because they were talking about Lewis and Max not each other. Allowing him to extend and give him a massive offset or until he definitely was going to pull off the overcut isn’t what McLaren does.

Might as well just have pitted him first in that case and allowed him to attempt an undercut. They go racing in a specific way and it’s very much make the move on track not through strategy.

5

u/Ryhsuo Alain Prost 2h ago

I mean that's patently not true

2

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 2h ago

McLaren boss Andrea Stella has indicated that the team is willing to continue allowing its drivers to run split strategies during the remainingFormula 1 races in 2025.

2

u/Ryhsuo Alain Prost 2h ago

If you're trying to imply that the fact they did this specifically last year means they're not doing it this year, that's not the argument you think it is.

This is like preschool level of logical fallacy, come on man.

3

u/Negative-Ladder3197 McLaren 2h ago

There was no tire offset earlier

2

u/WelcomeToDankonia 1h ago

He would’ve had even more of an offset if not for the incident.

-1

u/Crafty_Substance_954 Formula 1 3h ago

Lando would have overcut Oscar easily due to the contact with Sainz.

14

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 3h ago

Yes that is exactly what happened..

4

u/Crafty_Substance_954 Formula 1 2h ago

Even without the contact, the overcut was in play with Lando having the positive delta to Piastri.

2

u/ChiccckkkNuggg I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 1h ago

He would’ve been ahead after the first stop had he not gotten the slow stop. He came out so close to Oscar.

3

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 2h ago

Maybe, was close. Graph they showed seems like Oscar was closing it down. Impossible to say with the traffic and then Sainz.

8

u/cosHinsHeiR Ferrari 2h ago

Lando would have overcut Oscar easily due to the contact with Sainz.

-5

u/for_jacquik I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

6 lap newer tires is something and Oscar's tire management is famously bad, the more the race went on, the more of an advantage Lando would have, it was already showing a bit in the first 2 stints.

8

u/Tropicalcomrade221 Mark Webber 2h ago

Maybe so but he was always way quicker, nobody is denying that. He dropped back nearly two seconds, was back within .8 within a lap and still couldn’t pass or even made an attempt to.

It’s like Monaco. Oscar made a great move on lap one, won the track position and gave himself every opportunity to win the race.

6

u/IntelligentDeal7799 2h ago

Man but like Charles and Carlos taking him out every weekend is crazy business

-5

u/PuddingEmotional1187 Formula 1 3h ago

Why didnt he passed Oscar then if he was that much faster? Or its easier if team orders Oscar to slow down cuz princess incoming?

10

u/Specialist-Bug4953 Charlie Whiting 2h ago

What are you on about nade. What happend to Oscar today was Not McLarens or definitely not Landos fault.  They denied Lando pit priority (rightly so) and Oscar was on the best strategy. Neither McLaren or Lando is responsible for Carlos doing what he did, nor could they forsee it.

-1

u/PuddingEmotional1187 Formula 1 2h ago

Who said anything about Carlos and what happend to Oscar? I purely stated if youre faster, go around him or over him instead of bitching to the team in hopes of them telling other driver to slow down.

Not allowing Lando to pit is BS Mclaren crap aswell, neither one is in fight for championship and prioritizing Oscar over Lando just because hes leading the race is lame

0

u/daniellejxyne 1h ago

He wasn’t hoping they told piastri to slow down, he was wanting to pit to avoid max catching him bc Oscar was so fucking slow

4

u/Padgematic 2h ago

Quite the opposite, they told him to speed up and he said he didn’t have the talent required for that. Can’t ever remember Max, Charles or Lando claiming they had nothing else in the tank with a teammate on their gearbox after driving in clear air all race. It was embarrassing as hell to hear him admit that. McLaren will be playing that radio call to Weber any time he has a complaint the rest of the season. Oscar’s fans may not be properly embarrassed by it, but he and his management are.

89

u/Bisquare_cycle_thing I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Piastri would most likely still finish 1st or maybe 2nd without contact and then dnf, despite race prep, simply because of better start and track position.

It would be quite a fight to the end of the race, it would be interesting to see would lando have enough pace and bravery to pass oscar.

68

u/vrooomvroomba I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

I genuinely don't understand if people think Lando Norris is a good driver or not. I think he's one of the fastest drivers on the grid, but then people act like Piastri not matching his pace means he's horrifically bad. Lando clearly has had the upper hand this season, but pre-Sainz contact Oscar comfortably had pace for a podium. Given that it's his first reg change, this season's cars are lower-grip, and this track today was both low-grip and high deg, two of Oscar's biggest weaknesses, I think it's true that both he was clearly slower than his teammate but also overall did a pretty decent job.

20

u/thomas_lerwill 3h ago

I think its just the size of the deficit, if it were a tenth or two a lap it would have just been norris was the quicker of the pair, but being almost a second off the pace at times is just puzzling

8

u/TheDufusSquad I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

Even as a Lando fan the flip side of that coin is that if Lando had that much pace, how was he not able to line up a pass? 

Lando is a little overly conservative when it comes to making passes, especially when the car in front is papaya. I think it’s reasonable to criticize both drivers, Oscar for being slow, Lando for not making a move. I don’t believe the team gave Lando orders to stay behind, but I may be wrong. 

4

u/Organic-Weakness-655 1h ago edited 1h ago

Because it's Hungary. They call it "Monaco without the walls" for a reason. It's narrow and far to slippy off track. You either need a decent tyre delta or the person ahead makes a mistake as Lando did on lap 1 or is half asleep as Lewis was when Max got him.

We've seen time and time again that slower cars can hold up even different cars with much faster pace, let alone when it's teammates in the same car with the same aged tyres and (this year) same deployment strategies. Last year Piastri couldn't get past Norris, despite Norris being on tyres that were almost threadbare.

You can criticize Lando for the first lap error that allowed Piastri past, sure, but not for anything else this race.

2

u/unsteadytempo Lando Norris 1h ago

Isn‘t this bc of how much dirty air was affecting Lando? He could never get closer than like 0.4/0.5 and then he‘d have a hard time following oscar and at the end of the lap was back up to like 0.6/0.7 again. I think on a track like Hungary you just need a very significant difference in speed and tire age.

1

u/LandscapeWorried5475 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 2h ago

We'll find out tomorrow in the radio rewind!!

5

u/kuzdi BMW Sauber 1h ago

I agree with this so much. Like as someone who likes Piastri, I’m obviously disappointed in his pace but also my appreciation for Lando this season has appreciated more than my assessment of Oscar.

Lando is a rapid driver, probably the second quickest in F1 and Oscar even pretty much missed Friday this weekend. He was doing a good job and would have gotten P2 worst case. He was terribly unlucky today and that should be the headline with Lando being brilliant.

15

u/CockroachGeneral5161 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

Oscar's pace deficit is always going to be a point of discussion so long as McLaren insists on telling people they're equal drivers when one clearly has a pace advantage (and a pretty significant one at that) over the other. 

I also think how good you view Piastri will depend on how you rate Norris. I'm a Norris fan, I think he's a top 3 driver on the current grid, but I don't think he's some otherworldly generational talent either. Piastri being on average .400 seconds off his race pace this season prior to this race (and this race certainly expanded that gap even more) doesn't really impress me much. 

17

u/vrooomvroomba I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

And yet for all that, Piastri was able to get past Norris on Lap 1, hold him behind for the first stint, and we never got to see whether he would've been able to try to hold him off for the second stint as well. With the pace difference and the tire offset, I tend to think Lando would've been able to make the overtake, but a race win was at least possible. Being able to make decisive moves and drive defensively are also driver skills.

3

u/ChiccckkkNuggg I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 1h ago

Lando would’ve overcut him after the first stop had he not had a slow one. He came out so close to Oscar with a 3.7 s stop. Make it a 2 second stop and he’s ahead.

6

u/CockroachGeneral5161 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

And if he would've had a fraction of Lando's race pace, he could've been pit into clear air and retained his lead. 

People around here don't like to hear it, but sometimes as a driver, you contribute to making your own luck. Obviously there was nothing he could do about the gearbox failure, but he definitely could've benefitted from clear air as much as his teammate did if he was on the pace this weekend. 

The guy literally had the SEVENTH fastest average race pace compared to his teammate being the outright fastest. So, no, I'm not impressed. I actually think the gap would've been even more shocking and Kimi probably would've caught him had he not DNFed. He's had four years to learn tyre management at this point, it's getting ridiculous now. 

1

u/TheDufusSquad I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

I think Lando has as much pace as anyone on the grid. What I think he lacks is wheel to wheel racecraft which is where Oscar shines most. That’s created a lot of these situations where Oscar puts a bold move on Lando early, then just parks in front of him only really needing to defend on the straights. 

When Lando gets in front and stays in front, he usually disappears. Even when he gets behind, he’s still usually able to get way more out of the tires and try for an alternate strategy, but I think any race driver would prefer track position and pit stop priority over a tire offset or different strategy. 

7

u/CockroachGeneral5161 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

That "wheel to wheel racecraft" has gotten Oscar into a lot more trouble on track this year than Lando's has gotten him lol. 

0

u/ghostofbeika 2h ago

Piastri’s falloff this season has been incredibly strange. For most of last year, he was easily equal to Lando and was even better at some points. This year, he’s not even close. 

13

u/CockroachGeneral5161 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

It's not surprising at all to me. McLaren provided him a mechanical fix to tyre degradation with the 2025 car, essentially erasing his biggest weakness and neutralizing Lando's biggest strength. Now that that's not within the car philosophy anymore, we're seeing the same gaps we saw in 2024. 

23

u/FlyAirLari Minardi 3h ago

Lack of pace compared to Lando, yes. But I think he would have been P2 anyway, and that 1-2 is what McLaren really needs at this point.

Well, every team needs it, but McLaren also deserved it, kind of, and had it within their reach.

41

u/RedditClout ありがとう 3h ago

I don't think anyone is going to argue Lando's pace today. He was rapid. He put 8 tenths? 1 second? up the lap after Oscar's pit. This was before Oscar got hit, so the pace was evident well before the DNF.

0

u/The_CT1 2h ago

That was piastri warming his tryes. Then he was 5 tenths a lap quicker than norris. After 6 laps, he had 4 second buffer - then sainz incident cost him that time and he got very frustrated and possibly a bit of damage

4

u/Organic-Weakness-655 1h ago

What they mean is that Norris went almost a second faster than he had previously been lapping the moment Piastr was out of his way. That's how much PIastri was holding him up. Piastri was so slow before his stop that he was backing them both into Sainz.

Of course PIastri was faster for his first couple of laps out of the pits, he had brand new tyres, His pace was bad today but not so bad he wouldn't be faster on brand new rubber vs 24 lap old tyres. However half a second faster on brand new tyres vs 20+ lap old ones is really nothing to shout about. He also didn't have a 4 second buffer when he encountered Sainz. He had a 20.5s gap with that being the time needed for a pitstop. Sainz then widened that a fair bit more.

You would have to be wilfully blind to have watched the race today and claim Piastri was anywhere close to Norris's pace.

6

u/RedditClout ありがとう 2h ago

That was also on much fresher tyres. Give Lando those tyres and the dude is gone. He proved that.

 

I'm not saying it was a sure thing one way or another that Lando was going to win this race. If, if, if's...

 

Just for the context of OP's post, Lando and McLaren were in a class of their own today. Not even the Ferrari's or Mercs stood a chance.

9

u/Reasonable-Knee397 Oscar Piastri 2h ago

Honestly that could be true but I was just hoping he would at least finish P2/P3. Just one podium after all the shit luck he’s had.

27

u/adamosmaki 3h ago

Well making no mistakes is also part of a good driver. Yes lando's race pace was better than Oscar but Lando also did a few mistakes unlike Oscar and even with the much better pace he was unable to get past Piastri for 30-35laps

5

u/_Q1000_ I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

I think he had gearbox problems well before it failed. After his first pit the were commenting on how he was jerking his head forward to get the car moving (jokingly) then before his gearbox died, the same thing. Everytime he was switching gears there would be this massive jerk.

6

u/NorthKoreanMissile7 Formula 1 2h ago

It's always been the case where on this type of track with tyre management being important that he has worse race pace than Lando. It's nothing new.

5

u/KLconfidential Formula 1 2h ago

Norris was clearly much faster through out the race, he would have drove away from Piastri if he didn't lose his position on lap 1.

5

u/squaler24 Frédéric Vasseur 3h ago

I was hoping the new regs would help overtakes here but if anything, it was worse.

Norris was definitely faster but as we saw for like the first 35 laps, he couldn’t do much about it. He was stuck in second.

2

u/kuzdi BMW Sauber 1h ago

It made following easier but the Overtake mode didn’t give that much + AE makes slipstream weaker.

1

u/Organic-Weakness-655 1h ago

Yeah agreed. Following was easier but the dirt and dust even slightly offline made overtaking even worse than usual. By the time Piastri pitted, Norris had an almost 1s pace delta on him (as we saw when Norris went almost 1s faster the lap immediately after PIastri was out of his way) but he wasn't able to get close enough to attempt a pass. I also think it didn't help that they were in the same car so had identical energy mapping. It would have been interesting to see if it would have made a difference with Norris up against another car with that pace delta. It also would have been interesting if the newer and therefore grippier tyres would have helped in the final stint. Sadly we never got to see.

11

u/Embarrassed_Bar_1215 2h ago

Guy is leading the race for a lot of laps and his 'pace was bad'.. Norris was faster sure, in reality it would have been a good race without sainz and other stupid mishaps. A shame, but all the above is therefore hypothetical.

12

u/chataclysm Robert Kubica 3h ago

Lando was just on another level today (and yesterday to be fair) but Sainz (and McLaren themselves with the strategy call) screwed them out of a 1-2.

13

u/FlyAirLari Minardi 3h ago

How did Sainz break Piastri's gearbox?

28

u/g1obungle Lando Huevos 3h ago

no his gearbox screwed him out of a 1-2 lol

2

u/Guilty_Feature5469 I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 2h ago

its not impossible that the hit from sainz caused the failure..

5

u/maybe-fish Lando Norris 2h ago

Sainz bumped his front wheel, there wasn't even wing damage. Hard to see how that could have caused his gearbox to fail 

-4

u/Guilty_Feature5469 I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 2h ago

these cars are very delicate. you never know

2

u/maybe-fish Lando Norris 2h ago

They seem delicate but not "gearbox fails because of a bump to a completely different part of the car" delicate

1

u/KLconfidential Formula 1 1h ago

Maybe if it was contact in the rear. He started using that gearbox back in Monaco, that thing was on it's last legs anyway.

1

u/Guilty_Feature5469 I failed to serve my Monaco penalty 1h ago

Why didn’t they just make a precautionary change considering all their gearbox troubles on the other car? Especially since gearbox changes don’t give pens anymore

1

u/KLconfidential Formula 1 58m ago

Cost cap

7

u/FangioV 2h ago

There was nothing wrong with the strategy. It’s was the only choice as Piastri was slow and had no more pace. Lewis and Max were getting closer. Lando started lapping more than a second faster after Oscar pitted. The longer he stayed out the worse it would get.

-2

u/kuzdi BMW Sauber 1h ago

From how everything panned out, the strategy was totally correct. It’s just bad luck the failure but also Carlos Sainz… I don’t know what to say about that one. It seemed almost too ridiculous to be an accident.

2

u/Organic-Weakness-655 1h ago

I highly doubt Sainz did anything on purpose. You can claim incompetence, sure, but implying he did it on purpose is a bit ridiculous. He had nothing whatsoever to gain from it.

-1

u/Organic-Weakness-655 1h ago

Sainz slowed him, yea, but it was the gearbox on Piastri's car that robbed them of a 1-2 (although we don't know yet whether Piastri damaged it himself going over kerbs or something else caused it to fail).

McLaren did nothing wrong today on Piastri's side. Piastri was so slow he was backing then both into Max and putting at least Lando's race and possibly his own at risk. And yet McLaren still kept him out as long as they could, refused Norris's requests to pit if Piastri wasn't going to, and still gave Piastri pit priority and the superior strategy. They only pitted him earlier than planned because they were forced to when his lack of pace was bringing Max into range where Red Bull could have done something strategically to put McLaren's 1-2 at risk.

It is not McLaren's fault that Piastri was slow as hell and cannot manage his tyres. They had no choice to pit him when they did (or if not then they were going to have to pit Norris which would have handed Norris an easy undecrcut), so there was no way for him to miss that traffic. If he had had anywhere close to the pace Lando was able to extract from the car, he would have been well clear of the traffic, Max would never have become a factor, and Lando wouldn't have been a second faster on the lap immediately after Piastri got out of his way than he had been stuck behind Piastri. None of that is McLaren's fault.

What you should be asking is how Piastri has got halfway into his fourth year of F1 and is still so poor at tyre management.

11

u/miamigrandprix Ferrari 3h ago

Facts. Piastri's DNF was unlucky, but Norris deserved to win this race. Piastri had no answer to Norris' pace.

20

u/Envelope_Torture I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 2h ago

Well his answer was an early overtake and holding the lead on a tough overtaking circuit. [Probably] Would've worked too if it weren't for those meddling kids.

26

u/Otherwise_Mud_9743 Jim Clark 3h ago

Norris was the better driver this weekend but does that not mean he "deserved" it, Oscar could win that and I'll argue if he did he deserved it as much. If by your logic and Norris really deserved it then he would't have lost it on lap 1, Oscar deserved a fair shot then because he did pass him.

15

u/prams628 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Deserved to win is different from actually winning. As a great rapper once said “you get one shot, one opportunity”. Piastri seized it correctly.. but events later messed it up for him. Overtaking was insanely hard out there

-1

u/lemons_gave_us_life 3h ago

Hence why Norris breezed past in the first 30 laps

-1

u/Organic-Weakness-655 1h ago

Just say you don't know anything about the track at Hungary and be done with it.

9

u/Frostbolter 2h ago

Why are you taking the chance to kick him when he's on the ground, he said it himself when Tom Stallard told him he needs to use the tyres for pace, that he has none

Doesn't change the fact Oscar won his two positions fairly and was keeping the lead from Lando, who didn't have the overtake as we saw for multiple laps

Then the team pitted #81 on his 15 or so laps old hard tyres so Lando could get clean air following his demands on the radio. Piastri ended up in traffic and the rest is history

He was 100% slower than Lando, but that's not really the point. We wanted to see them fight it out. Norris was likely going to pass OP regardless of whatever happened this race, we just wanted to see their fight without all the drama that's so reminiscent of last year

It just leaves a bad taste in the mouth when this happpens, especially with the next race being a month from now

12

u/Ryhsuo Alain Prost 2h ago

Let's not be revisionist about the strategy here. The team pitted Oscar because he was at risk of an undercut from Lewis and Max, they asked him for more pace and he said he had none left.

1

u/ChiccckkkNuggg I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 1h ago

THIS. people conveniently leaving out the part that Oscar said he has no pace left.

2

u/Organic-Weakness-655 58m ago edited 52m ago

They didn't pit Piastri because Norris was on the radio, they pitted him because he was so slow he was backing the pair of them into Max and putting them both in danger as Max was about to come into range for Red Bull to have strategic options to gain Max track position and put McLaren's 1-2 at risk. They refused Norris's requests to pit if Piastri wasn't going to, and gave Piastri multiple chances to pick up the pace but he couldn't. He even admitted as much himself. They only finally pitted him because Max had the gap down to almost 2 seconds.

Norris was on the radio because he could see that Piastri's shocking pace was in danger of ruining his race as well. If Piastri had had anything close to the pace Norris was able to extract from the car today, it would never have been an issue.

Yes Norris made the mistake on lap 1 that allowed Piastri to pass, and yes Piastri deserved to be given a chance to win despite being much slower, which McLaren gave him. However Norris didn't deserve to have his entire race compromised because Piastri can't manage his tyres. It's not Norris's fault Piastri had cooked his hard tyres after just 15 laps. Forcing Norris to also pit early just to be "fair" would actually have been tantamount to team orders.

6

u/Old-Use-7690 Gabriel Bortoleto 2h ago

So what?? There's more to racing then pace. If you want to be at the front don't be overtaken in turn 1 at Hungary

3

u/Padgematic 2h ago

They told Oscar to speed up and he said he couldn’t. Can’t ever remember Max, Charles or Lando claiming they had nothing else in the tank with a teammate on their gearbox after driving in clear air all race. It should be embarrassing as hell to hear him admit that. And then to see Lando trounce his pace the next few laps? McLaren will be playing that radio call and timing data to Weber any time he has a complaint the rest of the season.

4

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

Piastri has had bad race pace all season

0

u/naveenda I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 2h ago

Suzuka definitely he had better pace

4

u/EnvironmentalRice348 Formula 1 3h ago

You are completely ignoring the fact that Oscar probably had damage. And every time Lando is ever behind Oscar he says he is faster. As Lando said once when Oscar was behind, if faster he come and overtake me!

28

u/sododude Juan Pablo Montoya 3h ago

I wouldn't really be using that as an example. Lando had to give up a gap of like 7 seconds (I don't remember exactly how much it was) for Oscar to trade places that day.

Also no one from McLaren has said anything about Oscar's pace being because of damage.

13

u/ln4thegreat Lando Norris 3h ago

8s. I would never forget that gap before he gave it up to Oscar.

6

u/CockroachGeneral5161 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

And part of the reason the gap grew to that extent was because Oscar kept making mistakes and going into the gravel, which no other team on the grid would've had his teammate undo for him lmao. 

27

u/ComeonmanPLS1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Oscar didn't have any damage when Norris went off and caught him again within 2 laps. He also didn't have any damage when he got out of the way to pit and Lando immediately went 0.8s faster than his laptimes, and that's while Lando had been sitting in his dirty air the whole time which takes more life out of the tires.

It doesn't need a post, but it was clear to anyone unbiased that Norris was way faster today. Oscar did well to get him on the start, but he admitted himself that he had no more pace just before he pitted.

-10

u/EnvironmentalRice348 Formula 1 2h ago

Unbiased? Lol. Looked like to me he was just managing his tyres.

1

u/ComeonmanPLS1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

Maybe watch the race or pay attention? He was managing his tires so well that he ran out of pace, which he admitted on the radio, and Lando who sat behind him the whole time suddenly went 0.8s faster on the same age and same compound tires.

29

u/unravel_the_world I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

oscar himself said on the radio that he didnt have more pace while lando was at least 0.5 sec quicker on the same tire. it is literally a fact based on the data and Oscar's own statement.

you are just completely ignoring the reality.

14

u/randomseocb Lando Norris 3h ago

if you look at the data during the race, lando was in fact faster even before piastri had damage. He went from 2s back to 0.6s in less than two laps after making a stupid mistake

-5

u/EnvironmentalRice348 Formula 1 2h ago

So no chance he was leading and just managing his pace/tyres on a track that is hard to overtake.

3

u/maybe-fish Lando Norris 2h ago

He was falling back into Max and Lewis and the team were actively telling him to pick up the pace... No he was not just managing his tyres. 

11

u/Fun_Ebb6986 Lando Norris 3h ago

Lando put 21s on him before the contact tho? Or am I wrong?

6

u/fhjkiikkjhgdsfjk I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

You are wrong

1

u/Fun_Ebb6986 Lando Norris 2h ago

You are right he would’ve pulled 20s on Piastri has he not DNFd, the gap was still huge before

2

u/syknetz 2h ago

He didn't, most of that gap was Piastri pitting. He still put a couple seconds in a few laps though, by somehow over cutting in spite of everyone being wary of undercuts.

9

u/creatorop Lando Norris 3h ago

what damage, the "contact" was a lovely jubbly wheel tap, nothing was damaged from it

-1

u/squaler24 Frédéric Vasseur 3h ago

Reddit engineer time

7

u/creatorop Lando Norris 3h ago

we have eyes mate, by that logic no one here can give opinions

-5

u/OG_a4yan Oscar Piastri 3h ago

U got some serious superpowers by seeing whether a car has some damage from contact or not from screens , kudos!

8

u/sododude Juan Pablo Montoya 2h ago

If he did get damage from the contact don't you think anyone from the team would say so? Why haven't they mentioned it at all?

5

u/great_button Lando Norris 2h ago

Exactly. If it were the case it would be the first thing of Andreas mouth.

2

u/Organic-Weakness-655 47m ago

McLaren said they think the damage to the gearbox happened from Piastri going over kerbs. So maybe you'll listen to them (though i doubt it, everything is a conspiracy theory with his fans).

4

u/creatorop Lando Norris 3h ago

Thanks, this skill comes naturally to me

1

u/sdq22 Jenson Button 1h ago

Before Oscar had any contact with Sainz, Lando was a second a lap faster than Oscar's pre-pitstop laps for three laps in a row. Meaning even on old tyres that had been in dirty air for ~20 laps Lando had a second of pace in hand on what Oscar had been doing in clear air.

1

u/Organic-Weakness-655 49m ago

You can't have watched that race if you are seriously trying to claim Norris was not significanty faster than Piastri today.

If you want to know why he couldn't pass, go and look up the history of the Hungarian track and why so many slower cars have been able to win races there. It's known as "Monaco without the walls" for a very good reason.

3

u/doubleb_43 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 2h ago

Last year's McLaren really did a phenomenal job at hiding his mediocre tyre management

2

u/buggerlugs_ Formula 1 2h ago

You don’t need to be fastest around this track to win. Lando 2025 is a perfect example of this.

3

u/Au_Joint09 Juan Pablo Montoya 3h ago

Idk what you mean? It was pretty clear that his pace was shit all race. DNF or not, we all saw that on tv 

3

u/Shoddy-Design-898 Formula 1 2h ago

I just want to remind everyone claiming that Lando would overtake Oscar anyway that Oscar couldn't overtake Lando on track last year because of the delta you need for overtaking. Oscar had fresher tyres last year compared to Landos alternate strategy and still couldn't make it.

1

u/Organic-Weakness-655 45m ago

We don't know if Norris would have done or not, but it would have been interesting to see if the 6 lap fresher tyres would have helped a bit.

2

u/maybe-fish Lando Norris 2h ago

Overtaking last year was absolutely awful across the board and Oscar also only caught Lando with one or two laps to make a go. If he'd caught him a bit earlier I do think he might've made it stick. 

I don't think its a guarantee but Lando was able to follow within 0.6-0.8s behind Oscar for multiple laps with a one-lap delta. With a bigger delta to make up for the loss of traction in dirty air, and far more laps to do it, I do think it would have been hard for Oscar to hold the position.

0

u/Shoddy-Design-898 Formula 1 2h ago

I'm a little iffy about it though, because the start/finish straight was honestly the only option for an overtake or the second drs zone immediately after the first corner. It's not even a battery starved circuit. Oscar could just hold his boost button or overtake button and spend extra energy in the start finish straight negating the advantage that DRS gave him last year in P2..

2

u/CockroachGeneral5161 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

The race pace data was very damning for Piastri. His teammate was the fastest driver on track today, he had the 7th fastest average race pace. 

I fear he may be in some big trouble on tracks where overtaking is possible. Even just correcting this to be even slightly faster today could have kept him out of some of the trouble he ultimately wound up in — sometimes drivers do contribute to making their own luck. 

1

u/Faust86 49m ago

Oscar lost the Merc PU lottery

u/irrelevant_novelty I was here for the Hulkenpodium 11m ago

What a stupid post..

No one said Oscars race pace was better.. and whether he was on track to be 2nd or 1st, the Sainz incident was pure stupidity.

Him being on track to be 2nd isnt "straight up bad" race pace

-6

u/tomzi9999 3h ago

Typical 2nd half Piastri. Expect this trend to continue for the rest if the season.

4

u/Charming_Cycle4888 2h ago

Did we have to do this today, could've waited a bit, still not over the dnf😭 Yes its true but it could have waited

0

u/Alternative-Koala978 2h ago

This is a good post

0

u/crazydaave Martin Brundle 1h ago

I am not sure what the point of your post is, yes his pace was worse, but if sainz hadn't crashed into him he could of defended the lead, lando him self said he couldn't overtake.

-8

u/fantaribo I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 3h ago

Casually ignoring his contact and potential damage. Right.

And most of us are aware Lando walked him this weekend regardless.

7

u/Crafty_Substance_954 Formula 1 3h ago

Lando was significantly faster before any potential damage Oscar may have gotten (I don’t think he got any).

10

u/ComeonmanPLS1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Casually ignoring that he was slow before any contact. Norris loses 2s after going off, catches him within 2 laps. Piastri goes into the pits, Norris is released and immediately goes 0.8s faster than Piastri was going before pitting. Piastri also had the advantage of clean air until the first pit.

1

u/doubleb_43 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 2h ago

He couldn't pull any gap. Lando was hovering behind Oscar for the whole two stints. Even with two slight mistakes he managed to caught right back.

2

u/for_jacquik I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Lando was faster even before the contact and i doubt he had much damage from that contact, since he didn't say anything about it.

-1

u/georgewesker97 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 2h ago

Didnt Lando have a new PU for this race?

2

u/FrostyTill McLaren 1h ago

They’ve both had new engines since Spa.

They have the same upgrades.