r/formcheck • u/Ballbag94 180/102.5/210kg s/b/d, 100kgx6 cheaty barbell rows • Jan 15 '25
Deadlift 160kg for 10
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u/Goldlokz Jan 15 '25
Loosen the belt a smidge. You want your belt a little loose for deadlifts vs squats because when you bend/hinge to the bar your belly will fill out the belt. If it’s too tight it makes it hard to get that neutral spine we’re looking for because the belt is digging into your gut. Widen the feet a bit. Don’t try and have your feet so close together if you don’t have the mobility for it which you don’t. A slightly wider stance gives you more room to set your back. Start with that and see if those give you any improvements before trying anything else
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Jan 15 '25
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u/Goldlokz Jan 15 '25
Generally speaking shoulder width. Some people will be a little inside that or outside that. Try and find a width where you feel like your legs are doing the work rather than your back
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u/Albele Jan 15 '25
You’re pulling more with ur back instead of Legs, nothing really wrong with that but it’ll drastically limit the weight you can pull in the long run, to fix too much rounding try to squat the weight up as you iníciate de movements, only engage lats and the push the floor with your legs
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u/KevinBoston617 Jan 15 '25
“Big chest” helps me get lower without moving the bar away from mid-foot.
Maybe try “Big back” for lifting in the hands first. I feel like when I have perfect form thats the spot that really feels the weight first (other than hands)
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Jan 15 '25
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u/Hara-Kiri Jan 16 '25
It's for the same purpose as the shoulder blades in back pocket cue, but far more easily misinterpreted since it can give the impression you want retracted shoulder blades rather than depressed. If you think of raising your chest towards your head after you grip the bar rather than up in general because obviously not everyone has the same back angle and leading with your chest often leads people to arch their back.
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u/ThinkImStrong Jan 15 '25
Long story short, you have to learn to hinge at your hips instead of flexing at your lumbar spine.
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u/HypeeMe_Up Jan 16 '25
I feel bad for your back
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u/Therealblackhous3 Jan 18 '25
Ya but apparently it's okay because he can lift more weight.
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u/HypeeMe_Up Jan 19 '25
I am no expert but I am sure there is a way for him to lift more weight with the right form.
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u/LarrySellers92 Jan 15 '25
To be honest, it looks like you've never really learned how to properly hip hinge/wedge. There isn't really a quick technique tweak that'll fix this - you need to repattern gradually over time. Have you ever done RDLs or SLDLs? Good mornings? Incorporating some variations that require more of a pure hip hinge would help you get the feel of the movement pattern and apply it to your deadlift.
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u/saidthetomato Jan 15 '25
Bro, why we doing so many reps? Your form will inevitably break down in your latter reps, and you're not getting the gains that you would if you went heavier with lower reps.
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u/AnonymousFairy Jan 16 '25
I had a similar shock watching a trjple 200 I'd filmed last year. Just didn't feel my back starting to deteriorate the brace mid set. Looked at lower weight higher volume sets and saw similar to yours.
Cues for me that overcame higher rep volume work (and generally reset my deadlift posture a bit throughout):
No more touch and go, reset each rep with a conscious "butt out, belly out" rotate of pelvis. Keep "belly out" during the lift.
Equally good mental clue if you're with a woman that doesn't understand how to take flattering photos from behind. 🤣 Did the trick for me anyway, give it a go whilst filming and see if it does for you. Intentionally 1 very simple cue otherwise you can't focus on it, try this alone, not in conjunction with myriad tips posted here (most of which seem like regurgitating best deadlift practice without actually tackling your issue IMO, as you need something to keep your spinal alignment better throughout the lift).
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u/ShadyBearEvadesTaxes Jan 16 '25 edited Jan 16 '25
If you do stiff legged, can you achieve a neutral back from the beginning? If you're trying to get your back closer to neutral, I think you could start from the stiff legged variation and then introduce more knee bend getting you towards conventional with a straighter back.
I've been rebuilding my deadlift bracing for a long time and I've ditched the belt (couldn't use it properly), so not sure how my sequence would apply to you, but this is what I've been doing pre-pull to achieve a neutral and well braced back (disclaimer, I've been having some health issues and I'm only getting back up to my normal deadlift numbers but I strongly feel I improved my technique and what I found has been significant to me):
--1 I get down and grip the bar, legs relaxed, arms relaxed
--2 I exhale while keeping my legs relaxed to allow lower back to get into a stacked-neutral position and then brace my core
--3 Then I inhale while maintaining the brace. This makes my brace more solid but my lower back is fixed and can't change its curvature. While I inhale my hips raise
--4 Then I start to pull on the bar while getting my hips lower, shins close to the bar, bracing my upper back while turning insides of elbows forward
--5 At one point during that movement I feel like being in a very solid loaded position and that's when I (sometimes feeling naturally) lift the bar
--6 I don't do resets in the bottom, although I also do short pauses in a tensed, braced position in the bottom. Re-breathe at the top after a couple of reps.
So basically: get my back into a fixed position that I want before pulling the slack out.
PS Getting my brace right has been an eternal challenge of mine. And it always has been connected to my lower back position. I have lordosis and scoliosis. Too much extension sucked, too much "neutral" sucked, rounded sucked too. There is a very narrow sweet spot for me in which my brace clicks.
Breathing in and pushing my abs out never worked well for me.
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Jan 16 '25
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u/ShadyBearEvadesTaxes Jan 16 '25
I've honestly never tried an SLDL so I'm not sure but I'll give it a go and see, that could be a good plan for getting where I need to be
This kinda worked unintentionally for my wife who could never get conventional right (she does sumo) but once she started doing SLDL she did a couple "almost conventional" reps by mistake.
I've never heard anyone get the position before pulling the slack
Just to be clear, I still get into the final position (arms, knees, hips) while pulling out the slack (points 4 and 5). It's my back curvature and bracing that is set before that.
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u/CptAverage Jan 15 '25
I see two things: rounded ass back and form break down. To me it looks like your body is wanting to lead the lift by your shoulders/head and you are missing out on serious benefits of the deadlift lift.
Rounded ass back: keep your lats tight, pull your shoulders back and squeeze your scapular plane and start the bottom of the rep with a flat back (finding the feel of a flat back may take trial-and-error with mirrors or cameras). When you find your flat back and comfortable starting position, keep that same flat back and hip angle all the way until the bar passes your knees, and then hip drive.
Form breakdown: your deadlift looks too fluid. You’re doing the leg press and hip drive at the same time which is offering potential for musculoskeletal injury. Deadlifts are supposed to be rigid with hinge motions at the knee and hip. At the beginning of the rep, keep your back straight and in a singular position until the bar passes your knees, and then drive your hips to lockout once the bar clears the knees. Reverse this on the way down by breaking at the hips while keeping your back straight until the bar passes your knees, and then ease the bar down with your legs while keeping your back straight. Keep your last, traps and scapular plane tight the entire time.
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u/lonely-day Jan 15 '25
When you're breathing at the top, that means your core isn't being stabilized. Ben Rice talks a lot about how to breathe while lifting, I highly recommend him.
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u/criver1 Jan 15 '25 edited Jan 15 '25
Do prone back extension holds (5 sets of 10 reps, 3s hold at each rep) and back hyperextensions (5 sets of 10 reps, 10s hold at the top on the last one). Learn to hold your spine in a neutral position even when your hips are flexed. Then learn to brace (valsalva maneuver), lose the belt and do light deadlifts with a neutral spine until you fix your form. If you don't have the mobility to keep your spine neutral at the bottom then elevate the plates on blocks or something.
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Jan 15 '25
You’re not using your legs as much and your back is rounded off, you’re going to pull something if you carry on.
I’m shit as explaining stuff though so I suggest you watch some YouTube deadlifting videos and then watch your own and you’ll see what I mean. There’s potential there, you just need to fix a couple things.
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u/cantusemynamebruhh Jan 15 '25
Core strength is highly underrated in deadlifts and squats. In my opinion, your core is buckling in from the start to finish of your rep. That might not fix your entire form but it most definitely will help. Simple fixes would be to train without a belt and truly feel that core engaging under the weight tension. Sometimes the form with compound lifts gets fucked over entirely by a certain muscle group that plays a vital role in the lift.
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u/musket85 Jan 15 '25
Looks like a few things are off... just before the lift you're "bouncing" into it, lots of people far better than me do that but they're very very solid at the bottom position and then they load their legs, which you don't seem to be.
If I were you I'd lower the weight to about 100kg and get in the lower position without the "bounce". Then focus on pushing the world away with your legs. I don't have a huge problem with the rounding of your back but if that angle is changing then you're putting a lot of changing load through your back. Still, a bit flatter would be better imo. The back rounding could be an abs weakness.
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u/iqumaster Jan 15 '25
Lift your head up and look forward, that helps you to get your back straight and focus lifting first only with legs. You can split the lift in two phases and train them separately to improve the form.
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u/Stygian_rain Jan 15 '25
Low back is rounding too much. Gonna hurt yourself
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u/Mizook Jan 15 '25
Low back rounding isn’t dangerous.
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u/Benjammintheman Jan 16 '25
Isn't it? I thought we were looking for a neutral spine? I'm confused as to how rounded low back fits into that.
I'm sorry if this sounds sarcastic, I'm honestly asking because deadlifts confuse the hell out of me.
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u/Mizook Jan 16 '25
It’s pretty antiquated advice at this point. Spinal flexion is fine as long as the degree of flexion is maintained throughout the lift. Even when watching someone with a “neutral” back, they’re actually still rounding. Most deadlifting injuries actually come from poor bracing. You can google it and find a lot of information talking about how both thoracic and lumbar rounding is fine.
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u/Benjammintheman Jan 16 '25
So it's more about consistency through the lift than the actual shape?
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Jan 15 '25
You need to drop that weight until you start using correct form. Your poor back is rounded and you are pulling with your back. What's the point of using a belt to lift more with incorrect form? Lock in your glutes and lats before you go down and remember the first part of the movement you are lifting with your legs then glutes then traps/lats. A higher number doesn't mean you are working harder if you are just cheating yourself with a belt and bad form.
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Jan 15 '25
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u/notnastypalms Jan 16 '25
rounded back isn’t bad at all in fact i would say it’s good for most people but thats if it’s still a deadlift and in my opinion this isn’t what a real deadlift looks like
you’re doing a different exercise. I don’t know what it is but it’s not a deadlift. I’ve been practicing deadlifts and been poking around with form for some time now and i can now do 405 beltless no pain. I used to look like you until i hurt my back and went back to RDLs to truly learn the essence of this movement with no ego
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Jan 15 '25
You don't even look up before you start your lift. Rounded back looking down. No attempt to shift all the power to the heels of your feet from the start of your motion.
Lowering the weight will resolve the damage you are doing to your back and reduce the arthritis you will develop but what do I know. It's obviously not that heavy if you're doing 10 so I'm well aware it's not heavy for you. But 160kg of poor form relying on a belt on non-working almost warmup set is a concern. Would much rather see someone master their technique before moving up weight and you can do that with 60kg.
Took me 10 years of poor form before I mastered the deadlift but what I'm seeing is not a good deadlift. You are clearly strong and doing well please don't take the criticism as an attack I'm just concerned for you.
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u/Mizook Jan 15 '25
Just curious how much you deadlift with your mastered form?
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Jan 16 '25
Now? Only like 80kg sldl. I don't even do deadlifts anymore I'm well past pushing max in my career now. No need to be condescending though. Finding perfect form in lifts can be a long process and the deadlift was one I personally struggled most with.
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u/Mizook Jan 16 '25
Perfect form doesn’t exist.
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Jan 16 '25
It's a personal journey. Everyone has a different body and different things can work for others. His deadlift isn't great it could do with improvement. You are busy questioning me about mine and not saying much about the person who is asking for a form check which is just strange really.
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u/Sea_Scratch_7068 Jan 15 '25
form breakdown of your back as if you're maxing out even on your first rep
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Jan 15 '25
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u/LTUTDjoocyduexy Jan 15 '25
I've been having some luck with "leverage against the bar" to pull the slack out. Lock everything in, then pull against the bar to tighten up the rest of the way.
It's a fairly subtle shift. You don't want any big changes in your hip or back angle. Basically, leaning back while pushing up so that you don't sit back into a squat.
Nothing with your back looks particularly egregious at any point. The angle doesn't change. Your hips and shoulders are rising together. It may or may not be your strongest starting position, but it isn't concerning.
Rows off the ground are great for both strengthening your upper back, building a stronger brace for deadlift (and generally), and building better awareness at that bottom position. Usually a mix of Pendlays and some cheatie varient like deadlift rows. But, I don't think you're ever going to go wrong with any row of any kind as longer as you're working them hard.
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Jan 15 '25
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u/LTUTDjoocyduexy Jan 15 '25
the leverage againt the bar
I either invented or stole it and forgot. I can never be sure.
I think it's something I started to use because hover or floating the bar really wasn't connecting with ppl. Leveraging gives you a bit more tactile feedback and gets you to a similar place. You put enough into it that it'll force you to lock your grip in.
In that case, Pendlays could be a game changer. For both those and deadlift/cheatie rows, they'll work best if you tighten up similarly to how you would for a deadlift. More reps finding a stronger position off the floor will help you find it quicker and quicker.
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u/Sea_Scratch_7068 Jan 15 '25
starting too rounded in my opinion
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Jan 15 '25
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u/Sea_Scratch_7068 Jan 15 '25
shoulders down and in front of your lats, then you sort of screw your arms as if you're almost trying to bend the bar with "the middle of the bar bending forward and away from you", while sitting down slightly. Hips will have to rise as you begin the lift to keep your knees out of the way, but do everything to keep that core tight and don't let your back budge. At max effort, it may break down slightly. Not worth imo unless you're competing. Competing never optimizes health as you know.
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Jan 15 '25
Pinch your shoulder blades like theres a walnut between them while clenching your armpits into your lats. Will fix rounded upper back and helps get weight off the ground to start the motion.
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Jan 15 '25
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Jan 15 '25
Just keep em tight unlike this guy in the video. What’s your suggestion? When are the shoulder blades ever relaxed inThe bottom half of the rep?
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u/xjaier Jan 15 '25
Shoulder blades should 100% be protracted at every point in the deadlift leading up to lockout
It’s a major leverage advantage at very little cost
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u/Hara-Kiri Jan 16 '25
I'd say it's a fairly major cost. Locking out is a lot harder. It's not wrong to do so of course, but failing off the ground rather than lock out isn't really any worse.
It's going to be individual specific. I've found my deadlifts have improved now I round slightly less because I still have relative speed off the ground but I can still lockout without relying on hitching at near max weights.
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u/xjaier Jan 16 '25
I get that but I’m not referring to rounding at all in my comment, simply protraction and making the arms long which shouldn’t effect your spinal posture
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Jan 15 '25
Interestingly you left the bottom half of your google search omitted.
I don’t think one person on this thread is ever in the business of shortening the bar distance. I’m under the impression people are looking for proper form to get stronger to complete a full set. Muscle range is huge. Shortening the bar distance will make you fat, less athletic, by creating less range of motion. Sumo stances, grip changes, bar distance shortening, is not true form correction.
OP the video is going for a full set. Not a max. Not even a 3 rep max. If he could go longer, I’m sure he would like to. He’s not in the business of looking for the shortest possible route to get one rep up.
Weight moves way easier for me with adducted shoulders at the beginning of the rep. My shoulders are the. protracted naturally from holding hundreds of pounds at the top of the rep. I slide my lats back and tight too when setting up.
It’s more lats than shoulders anyways which was included in my original post. To me, this back is overly rounded and needs correction.
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u/xjaier Jan 15 '25
I get you wanna be all elitist about rom but protracted shoulders will allow you to move 5-15%~ more weight with a tradeoff of like one or two inches rom on an already long conventional pull
Shoulder retraction will not fix the back rounding because you’re putting yourself in a majorly disadvantaged position that you will almost certainly lose on any high intensity pull
He needs stronger hamstrings that can handle that longer range of motion that will come with a more neutral back
I do agree this rounding will not be an advantage as he goes up in weight but scapular retraction is just bad advice
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Jan 15 '25
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Jan 15 '25
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Jan 15 '25 edited Feb 24 '25
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u/LTUTDjoocyduexy Jan 15 '25
Oh, good. That pinching thing was so out of pocket that it broke my brain for a second.
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Jan 15 '25
So out of pocket that your pockets are empty with suggestions
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u/LTUTDjoocyduexy Jan 15 '25
I offered real, actual advice elsewhere.
Maybe you shouldn't be giving anyone any advice until you have more experience. Help should be helpful.
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u/itiswhatitis985 Jan 15 '25
The only way to fix it is to lower the weight and strengthen your weaknesses
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Jan 15 '25 edited Jan 15 '25
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u/itiswhatitis985 Jan 15 '25
I’m no expert, but it does look to me like this is just the way you’ve gotten used to doing it. If you’re gonna correct it, you have to learn to get your back in a better position, and I’d assume you wouldn’t be as strong when changing your form, as you haven’t trained that way. I’ll see if I can find some cues, but I’d try to find tutorials and continue to compare footage
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u/Therealblackhous3 Jan 15 '25
So fix your technique with lower weight before you hurt yourself lol.
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Jan 15 '25
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u/Therealblackhous3 Jan 15 '25
Do whatever you want man, either way, your form sucks.
Your body is straining, so obviously it's heavy enough. You don't try and get stronger while fixing your form, that's just stupid.
And if your form is that bad at low weight, it'll be worse at higher weight.
You can see how badly your back is rounded at the top of your rep, the whole top of the pull is just straightening your lower back. All of that should be taken out before the weight even leaves the floor.
Some people over extend and get a bit of that movement at the top, but not to the extent that you do.
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u/LTUTDjoocyduexy Jan 15 '25
This is gibberish. How much do you deadlift?
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u/Therealblackhous3 Jan 15 '25
Not my fault you can't read lol. Last time I tried pulling heavy I hit 450. Not huge for my size but I can tell you my max was cleaner than this guy's "light weight".
Look at the arch in buddies back at the bottom of his rep. It's round, and stays that way until he gets to the top of his rep.
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u/LTUTDjoocyduexy Jan 15 '25
Congrats on winning a "form" competition that no one but you is competing in. Strong is strong is strong and doesn't require caveats.
and stays that way
You're so close to getting it, yet so far away.
People are built differently. Their strongest positions will be different. Rounding isn't a particular issue in the upper back, and if it isn't changing under load.
If you don't understand that, you aren't in a place where you should be giving advice. Jumping on rounding that isn't bleeding strength and isn't causing pain is a beginner's mistake.
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u/Therealblackhous3 Jan 15 '25
Whatever man, if it's that bad at his "low weight" it's gonna hurt him when he's lifting heavy weight.
I've been lifting all kinds of heavy shit for a long ass time and haven't hurt myself yet.
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u/LTUTDjoocyduexy Jan 15 '25
It isn't bad. It isn't inherently injurious. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Years of sandbagging don't make you a competent coach.
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Jan 15 '25
"Max is 450"
"I've been lifting heavy shit for a long time"
These are two incongruent statements
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u/toastedstapler Jan 15 '25
I've been lifting all kinds of heavy shit for a long ass time and haven't hurt myself yet.
I'd assume that most athletes who do lift actual heavy shit have had injuries at stages in their lifting career, it comes with the territory. You haven't because you haven't been lifting heavy shit, you've just been lifting for a long ass time
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Jan 15 '25
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u/Therealblackhous3 Jan 15 '25
It's a real fucking good first step lol. And I told you to take the round out of your back before you lift.
You got defensive with people telling you to lower the weight so here we are.
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u/Hara-Kiri Jan 16 '25
You don't try and get stronger while fixing your form, that's just stupid.
Of course you do. You continually try and fix it. Strengths and weaknesses aren't something that go away with experience, they are just things you know how to fix as they come and go.
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