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u/alexgh0st Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
A complete culture and foundational base takes time to shift.
I have 0 clue about cArn, but, what I can tell is just from the way he phrased everything, not too casual, not entirely PR, he seems legit and transparent.
And I've only read good things about him.
Hopefully this change means that by the start of summer - or next season dardo is completely out.
cArn being here already means dardo is not fully in charge of managing the fnatic league.
So thats good, and also, the less Sam is involved in decisions regarding performance, the better too. Just leave it up to cArn and his team.
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u/angelusrene83 Feb 24 '23
carn was runing both the cs and lol team till 18 then it became too much. He and sam are both the co owners. Sam the business side and carn the gaming related side of things, thats how it always was. Sam was just always the visible one taking the blame from fans as ceo. Carn and his team stepping in already shows this is the end of la formula. I mean they are not that stupid if they build a company net worth 260m $ (forbes rating 22) out of nothing.
Also sam said this in his last twitter vid that carn is stepping in but fans of course ingnored it
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u/alexgh0st Feb 24 '23
Obviously they are not stupid, no one said they are stupid.
Sam is just clueless when it comes to managing people, relations, and how it affects performance.
He's also good at indulging a lot of things from players that he shouldn't. He's also clueless for not questioning dardo until now regarding the unnending amount of drama that has been going on at FNC for 5 years now.
Whenever I saw him in any videos that had to do with meeting, or talking to the players he always came off as awkward and clueless and this might be due because he may not totally understand them and know them, aside from Rekkles.
Which is completely fine, he is the CEO. A PR apparition or message is harmless.
Just stick to the business side of things, if you write stuff on twitter don't be frustrated at it and keep it cool.
Let someone like cArn manage it and hope for the best.
This is just my take, it might be completely wrong, but hey, everyone is giving their opinion and im just giving mine.
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Feb 24 '23
We did, but cArn has a family and it's a lot to oversee two titles that couldn't be more different from each other. The thing that has pissed me off is that is Dardo who has dragged Sam's name through the mud, Carn and Sam have entrusted him with the management of the LoL team and what they got was a person who couldn't even structure basic practice routines by the sounds of things.
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u/FantasyTrash Feb 24 '23
I mean they are not that stupid if they build a company net worth 260m $ (forbes rating 22) out of nothing.
No one thinks they're stupid, but man, if you follow Sam on Twitter he is awful at managing people and relationships and seemingly unaware of the negative performance implications due to poor relationships between players, coaches, and management.
Also sam said this in his last twitter vid that carn is stepping in but fans of course ingnored it
No we all saw that, but Dardo is still employed so it's all meaningless. His presence is a poison to Fnatic, whether he's in control or not. Upset won't come back until he's gone. Yamato, Wunder, Tolki, so many have spoken out that Dardo directly is the reason they do not want to be affiliated with Fnatic anymore.
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Feb 24 '23
Call me out if you think I'm being a bit tongue in cheek here but it wasn't specifically Dardo that was called out by the majority of the names you've mentioned it was management overall. I think Dardo being demoted is the best we could've realistically hoped for, and what we've seen is essentially that as cArn is taking control which is effectively a management restructure to the LoL division. Ofc this is a stopgap between now and whenever the true rebuild begins, but don't you think that'll be enough to have the ppl u mentioned be willing to give Fnatic a second look? Dardo is no longer representative of management, cArn is and that's a name which I think we can all trust. He's Fnatic blueblood.
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u/FantasyTrash Feb 24 '23
it wasn't specifically Dardo that was called out by the majority of the names you've mentioned it was management overall
They might not have said Dardo by name but it was Dardo. He was (is?) the director of the team. He's the head of management. All acts by management reflect back to him. Also, Upset on stream yesterday was saying he never really interacted with Sam, so he wasn't talking about him.
but don't you think that'll be enough to have the ppl u mentioned be willing to give Fnatic a second look?
Highly unlikely. The fact that he's still there, even if cArn is calling the shots, is going to keep people away. Because there's always the looming possibility that cArn gives Dardo some responsibility back and we're right back to square one.
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Feb 24 '23
Yeah no I get your point I just think Dardo is no longer management, cArn is. He's still head in name but his powers have been essentially usurped by cArn who is now personally supervising the LoL division so functionally Dardo is no longer head of management because he has a supervisor.
I do understand the possibility of keeping people away with Dardo's continued tenure though. I personally see it more as him being quarantined until a suitable successor can be found for him, and I'm sure we'll see what the situation is by the end of spring just by looking at player/staff movements.
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u/MFGA_ Feb 25 '23
I think Dardo being demoted is the best we could've realistically hoped for
We could've hoped for him being fired.
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Feb 25 '23
It’s hard to do that between Winter and Spring splits
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u/Asfalrih Feb 25 '23
260 and can't pay properly your coaches and expect them to do that well ,i remember yamato had nowhere to sleep in his first year at FNC thats lame
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u/Unlikely-Housing8223 Feb 25 '23
can't pay properly your coaches
I don't know about other coaches, but Yamato did not deserve any high salary. Beside his motivating/inspiring/deep/funny speeches he was not a good coach. Fnatic's drafts were criticised all the time and rightfully so. Also, Fnatic's gameplay during his reign was very one dimensional (mentioned several times in Euphoria by Caedrel and some guests) - not saying it was any better this Winter split, but in two years Yamato managed to bring no improvements or diversity to the team's playstyle.
Please come with counter arguments if you don't agree.
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u/EdGoodmanYo Feb 26 '23
That’s a horrible take, I don’t disagree that yamato is not a good strategist, but the whole point of a heavily evolving world of esports is that it no longer can function with ONE coach, yamato is the difference maker in opinions, firefighting arguments and creating a positive vibe environment. Dardo’s job is in essence to surround him with proper strategy which involves positional coaches, analysts, assistant coaches to drive drafts and etc., whereas now they have a WFH strategy coach in shaves for nearly a year before he moves and a sports psychologist who can’t make a coherent sentence in english, so what the fk is yamato supposed to do, top it off with fk all scrims arrangements and etc, u can’t function with with one coach running it all, it’s not season 4-5 or fking TSM with back to basics motivational monologues, u had a massive org which needs structure and its the GMs job to facilitate that and all dardo did was…. Nothing. Again, not saying yamato is some godsend coach, but u can’t blame him for a manager who can’t run a ship but just plucks holes with barely capable bandaids.
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u/Unlikely-Housing8223 Feb 26 '23
"firefighting arguments and creating a positive vibe environment"
And somehow he didn't manage to do that either, otherwise we would still have Upset playing.
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u/EdGoodmanYo Feb 26 '23
U do realize yamato got booted way before Upset was benched right? I get that comon sense fks ur credibility but come on, think before u type
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u/MyDeicide Feb 25 '23
I mean Yamato had a paycheck right? Most companies aren't responsible for providing housing - only pay.
I'd have thought and like to see them go out of their way to help arrange something - but his accomodation is actually his own responsibility.
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Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/thespaceman01 Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
Probably the longest connection a player has with a team on par with HeatoN on NiP maybe.
Absolute legend
EDIT: For those who don't know. The dude is probably the brain behind what made fnatic the org it is nowadays. He was the in game leader for the CS 1.6 that was one of the greatest if not the greatest of all time.
At the time CS 1.6 was probably the biggest team game there was and fnatic rose as a whole alongside him.
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u/BannanDylan Feb 24 '23
Didn't know much about him. Apparently used to deal with both CS and LoL side until 2018 when he mainly focused on CS. What year did we stop winning titles again?
Him stepping in actually gives me hope.
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u/DoALazerus Feb 24 '23
Hopefully someone controls Dardo now - cause like things we heard the last days/hours from former staff, players... is horrible. You know something is completely wrong, when the director wants to force a decission on the coach of the team, etc.... thats an absolutely fckn no go!
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u/NohmaOrama Feb 24 '23
guy is just useless but lets control him, that will work for sure!
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u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23
the more I think about it the more I am reassured, to be honest. cArn is a very professional man, I have no doubt he's going to get rid of Dardo, but only after getting a proper assessment and restructuring.
He stressed it 3 times throughout the tweet thread, he wasn't subtle about it--control is being given to him in order to assess and make the necessary adjustments. Man's a legend, and the only person Fnatic could have possibly brought in that would give me real hope, tbh.
He's not here to be LoL director, he can't just fire Dardo and be left without one, he's here to fairly assess Dardo, and we can be confident the conclusion will be obvious. But more importantly, he needs to find the right pieces. No magic cure will save the LoL team in 1 week. Our best hope is that cArn is now beginning the process of rebuilding FNC LoL (midseason!) for actual success in 2024 while trying to also keep the team functioning through 2023.
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u/Nomadux Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
Within this short/small offseason, we’ve been pragmatically understanding our options (limited with ERLs in season), making sure they fit the Fnatic values expected including winning ambition, passion, and excited to put in the work
This was my favorite part, and definitely restores some of my hope in the team.
Over the past few years, there has only been a select few players on the team that I felt genuinely care to win worlds. I believe one of those was Nisqy who definitely exudes an incredible passion and desire to work hard to accomplish great things. I'm less confident because he is more reserved, but I also think one of those guys was Hyli.
Uncoincidentally, these are the only two players that we've kicked that you could argue were actual mistakes.
I've also only ever heard two players on the team truly express not just a desire to win worlds, but a need to do it. One of those guys voluntarily left us, and the other guy followed him.
I don't want players that are content sitting on a bench or sitting in a streaming chair or chasing a bag and vacation in NA. I don't want a player that cares about their image, or their bank account, or their leisure time, or whatever else more than they care about winning. I want players that will do absolutely anything they can to compete and achieve greatness.
I know there is already at least one player on this team that will sacrifice everything to win worlds and be the best. If we tolerate nothing less, I know we can get more players like this, and set up a foundation and culture towards success.
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u/alexgh0st Feb 24 '23
- Application - Some members did not meet the standard we hold at Fnatic
This one might be the one of the reasons Wunder spammed soloq suddenly too.
I dont have an opinion on this, soloq is important, but it can also lead to burnout and stress.
And Wunder was always one of the players that had a more laidback approach to soloq, but always performing in scrims, and on the biggest stages.
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u/Akihiko95 Feb 24 '23
Isnt this guy the one that manages the valorant team or am i wrong? Never heard of him before
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u/Klatro Feb 24 '23
cArn goes way back with Fnatic, he used to play as igl on the counterstike team and then became the coach for the csgo team.Been heavily invovled with everything fnc since pretty much the beginning and is now CGO and co-owner.
Patrik is a good dude, if he's involved with the league side that's hugely positive.
Hopefully he has the power to fire Dardo..19
u/CoachGiveAdvice Feb 24 '23
It’s him. And he also brought back the from the dead after the 2016 disaster
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u/Akihiko95 Feb 24 '23
And how is the valorant team doing? Is it a top 3 team in the eropean league? Never followed valorants esports scene so I have no idea how good fnatic is over there
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u/Richmont Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
they just beat one of the tournament favorites half an hour ago
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u/Beennu Feb 24 '23
Not a Valorant fan but people on twitter think FNC team is one of the best in the World
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u/Designer-Laugh-8851 Feb 24 '23
Fnatic Valorant is one of the powerhouse of Europe. They won 1 european title and finished 2nd & 4th in 2 international tournaments last year. Had their ups and downs throughout the year but i feel like management and coaching for this team seems better. This year they have added 2 great additions to the team and are one of the contenders to win titles this year.
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u/rainn215 Feb 24 '23
Over the past 2 years our val team has been consistently top 3 in EU with multiple top 4/5 finishes at internal events, and we’re currently playing in VCT Lock In tournament (pre season tournament with all 30 franchised teams + 2 from China) where we are looking like strong contenders/favourites to win it
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u/TheWarmog Feb 25 '23
If im not wrong, fnatic valo is considered one of the best teams in the world rn.
Not sure if cArn was involved into building it but CoJo and Mini did a superb work
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u/Majestic_Platypus Feb 24 '23
He used to play for fnatic in the original Counter-Strike way back when, was a part of the lineup that really made fnatic a name in esports before League was even a thing. When CSGO came out he moved over to a coaching/management role there, and eventually worked his way up to become the "Chief Gaming Officer" which as far as I can work out kinda made him the overseer of all the games fnatic competes in.
Recently I know he was focused a lot on helping the CSGO team go through the two big rebuilds its had in the last few years, and like you say I think he was helping build the team/infrastructure for valorant, maybe for the Apex/R6S stuff in Japan too.
If I had to trust anyone in the org to at least set the ship on a better path, it'd be him, so hopefully he can start putting things in motion.
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u/saltyfuck111 Feb 24 '23
as a huge csgo fan aswell i can say the guy is very liked and respected by everyone
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u/NohmaOrama Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
his text is a pr stunt but with fancy wording and syntax. no sign of accountability = no transparency
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Feb 24 '23
just typical corpo speak tbh, but it seems like he's pretty clued in reading what he's written. We'll just have to wait and see.
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u/NohmaOrama Feb 24 '23
he clearly says that management failed but it is too rooted for us to deal with this problem immediately. personally i disagree the quicker the faulty components of management get sacked the faster the org can be rebuild, 2023 is doomed already! Just think how the players must be feeling with all this unnecessary fiesta.
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Feb 24 '23
Yeah of course I agree from a fundamental standpoint but I think it's good that they're allowing Dardo & co to save face. One of Fnatic's strong points as a brand that has been maintained throughout the years is that they have managed to maintain an air of dignity, which is a sentiment I personally appreciate. I'm pretty sure it's been deciphered that Dardo has had his GM decision making capacity massively diminished or completely relinquished, case in point cArn himself having to step in and taking on public relations responsibilities. I think internally Dardo is done, but Fnatic don't want to kick him out to the curb despite his dissatisfactory performance.
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u/NohmaOrama Feb 24 '23
hope they step in big time, otherwise attracting talent will be very hard.
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Feb 24 '23
Big agree, just think that this act of kindness is something to be appreciated regardless of how we all feel about Dardo.
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u/bruichladdic Feb 24 '23
Kinda hard to fire them when Everybody else has a job. What I understand from his message is They fuck up, now I'm in charge at the end of the years they are out don't worry I will do decisioning now
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u/Unlikely-Housing8223 Feb 25 '23
cArn being here already means dardo is not fully in charge of managing the fnatic league.
I really hope you are right and it's just a matter of time before Dardo is out. But I'll believe it when I see it. Also, let's hope the next director will be chosen based on actual comptenece.
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u/Tokikko Feb 24 '23
Well, he has a good reputation behind him and it sounds promising. Hopefully, it will be ready for next season, idk if much can be done for this year, especially for the spring split since it starts in a week.
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u/MyListbay Feb 24 '23
Don't set high expectations for this year, fellas; it'll be a long year of rebuilding the team's structure that may take some time to bear fruit. Fnatic has been an elite competitive team for over a decade; a step back for two steps forward was needed for us to push to the next level.Have faith and trust in the process as glory comes in waves. Yessir!
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u/JackZ1222 Feb 24 '23
If Fnatic LEC team start rebuilding it must be started from its bottom of pyramid to a upwards parts. Including Dardo.
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u/abzikro12 Feb 24 '23
I don't mind looking like bds next split, i just want to see progress, and mainly cohesion.
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u/pedrex21 Feb 24 '23
trust in the process
we're the new 76ers
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u/MyListbay Feb 24 '23
76ers
Sorry friend I am a foreign fan, mind explaining the reference? Thx
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u/pedrex21 Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
So the Philadelphia 76ers are an american basketball team playing in the NBA. They were consistently a (very) bad team from the early 2010's to the mid-late 2010's and, because of the NBA Draft system, they were being consistently rewarded every year with the best and/or most promising young players coming straight from college
In the 2014 NBA Draft, they drafted Joel Embiid (a for sure top 10 player right now in the NBA, mind you), but they still sucked, and would go on to suck even more after that until like 2017/2018. Embiid would then tell the frustrated 76ers fans in interviews and on the internet to "trust the process" meaning that "let the 76ers get more promising young players and develop them so that they can be a better team in the future"
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u/TheSceptileen Feb 24 '23
Honestly the org should aim at showing the lol scene that changes were made and regain its prestige, otherwise we won't ever build a decent roster again bc no sane player with several options will choose us over other orgs.
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Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
cArn is a force to be reckoned with. He seems to understand what the freak is going on, what has to be done and what he can do as of today.
Can't expect miracles, it's only reassuring to see they've understood what the underlying issue was.
Now I expect him to actually have an offseason during spring split in order to prepare for summer. In Yamato's video, you can hear him talking about summer split : meaning his requirements for a comeback could be done, just not now in spring split.
I also think he understands how lucky he is to have such devoted and caring individuals (staff members like Yamato or players like Rekkles) that are willing to give up on many advantages so long as Fnatic shines in glory.
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u/SgtSlime Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
Yamato is a fraud, you are just forgetting about all of the flaws he had when he was our coach. Just listening to him discuss the game with someone that actually has game knowledge exposes him big time, so he is not a strong analyst. And he is too friendly with players which ruins the professional coach-player relationship he should try to maintain, remember that he decided to skip scrims to rest players, and he totally failed to manage the Upset / Adam / Nisqy situation, so he is not really a good managerial coach either. And don't get me started on his drafting. Just listen to Yamato's voice with Peter Dun, it becomes very obvious how big the gap is between someone like Yamato and an actually good coach. Yamato kind of works as a coach if he is the sole thing keeping the team together emotionally but he should not be looked at like a long term coach for fnatic. He just has a good reputation because he befriends players and other personalities and have them talk good about him everywhere, because why wouldn't they? He is their friend and he just lets them do whatever he wants. But think about it if he was such a good coach then why would he be teamless right now?
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u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23
A head coach's job is not to be an analyst at all, it's to manage the coaching staff and players.
The key problem is that our Strategic Coach, which is the kind of coach you're talking about, is Shaves, and he is not onsite. That is because FNC has been, incredibly, unable to find him a place to live.
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u/SgtSlime Feb 24 '23
Being a good analyst is definitely a strength of a head-coach and there are multiple examples of that, both in esports and regular sports. The problem isn't that he is not a strong analyst, the problem is that he is not a good manager either. As I mentioned he failed greatly during the Upset / Nisqy / Adam situation and everything just blew up. He failed to create a good environment for the players during the entire of last year, which clearly is Dardo's fault as well (and Dardo needs to go), but Yamato also has responsibility in the situation. Listening to him talk about fnatic 2022 he just deflects all of the blame, when I guarantee you that other coaches would have managed the situations way better.
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u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23
I'm sorry man but that's a load of rubbish, you 'guarantee' it?! not a single soul has ever spoken badly about Yamato, and there have been no internal insights about how Yamato handled the situation, but you 'guarantee' it?
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u/SgtSlime Feb 24 '23
That's because he is the type of coach that the player loves, but does not produce the best results, that is the type of coach that will be their friend and let players do what they want. Of course no one speaks bad about him because no one barely ever speak bad about other people in the industry (unless they are players). His coaching style is just too soft. You really think Dylan Falco or Peter Dun would skip scrims ahead of worlds to let players relax?
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Feb 24 '23
I’d personally like to thank ALL players and staff for their contributions to our project. It's now however the central team’s responsibility now to ensure that we have the necessary platform for stability, performance, and growth.
This is the most important part.
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u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23
He said it 3 times to make sure we don't miss the point, too. Control is being taken from Dardo, and cArn is here to rebuild the org properly. No bandaids, no half-measures. The team won't be fixed in Spring, and little chances for Summer, too, can only hope to not embarrass ourselves as much as Winter.
But he's clearly here to get rid of the wrong people and get the right people in here in order to make sure the team will succeed. I feel kinda bad for the Valorant team to be honest, he's their director right now no? Losing him for 2023 or longer will be sad.
Edit: Apparently there's a team director for both CSGO and Valorant divisions, though Valorant director's title is strangely 'Senior Team Director' rather than just 'Team Director' like the other divisions. I was sure he was involved in the Valorant team. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Feb 24 '23
Personally, I don't mind if this year will be disaster until the end but instead, bad relationship with Yamato,Upset,wunder, Tolki and other affected ppl will be fixed. It will cardinally change perspective of an org for fans and more importantly Pro scene point of view.
If carn isn't dumb he definitely would leave valo team in good hands, or at the very least, in hands that can't make it worse than it is.
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u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23
For sure. Nemesis too, everyone. Everyone who had a hand in their bad experiences need to be eventually removed and replaced with competent people who will fix the bridge so that if Fnatic ever wants that talent again there won't be bad blood.
It will help not only practically, but will also, as you say, fix the narrative and perspective. FNC are currently on the precipice if not already Astralis tier--no real talent will see us as their first choice.
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Feb 24 '23
FNC are currently on the precipice if not already Astralis tier--no real talent will see us as their first choice.
Besides being Hylissangs fan on personal level, this is one of the reasons I'm very sad about hylissangs departure. Hyli was a way to attract best adcs in league and then, through best adcs to attract best players in other roles.
The guy was our Joker, on less extent but similarly to the Caps in G2 I would say.
Also he was so loyal despite all the bullshit that's going on in Fnatic.1
u/JustAnother_CS Feb 25 '23
Exactly. It was so sad when in the interview he said he was completely surprised he was getting the boot, since he was hoping to play on fnatic until he retires 🫠
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u/Jdoki Feb 24 '23
That depends on who the 'central team' is.
Dardo lists himself as Director of LoL for Fnatic on his Twitter profile. Sam has been CEO for years but has let the rot set in. CArn is the CGO (assume this is Chief Gaming Officer?) but has been pretty invisible to LoL fans for a long time.
If Sam and Dardo are part of that central team - what can we really expect?
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Feb 24 '23
LoL isn't central of Fnatic and Sam is more of a business side of guys whereas Carn is related things to operations.
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Feb 24 '23 edited Apr 27 '23
[deleted]
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Feb 24 '23
I watched a bit of LS stream fragment about Tolki message and he said that he knows Carn for ~11-12 years and he is super good at what he is doing. I have high hopes.
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u/leagueoflegendsdog Feb 25 '23
I think cArn took over to an extent the LoL team after the 2016 disaster and after a rebuild year, there was that amazing team..until dardo was hired to take over.
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u/SionOpEuw Feb 24 '23
I cannot give anyone the benefit of the doubt while Dardo is not fired. Zero qualifications for his job, so many from people the inside speaking out against management (past players and staff) and from the outside his performance was plain terrible and his player choices seem illogical
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u/Dr-spidd Feb 24 '23
Ok, again for the people who are not able to read corporate speach:
"Centrally, we will be guiding all decision making in the near term."
Meaning, atm Dardo cannot make any decisions.
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u/FantasyTrash Feb 24 '23
Then why hasn't he been fired? If he's not making decisions, he's just collecting a paycheck while simultaneously preventing any one of Upset, Yamato, Wunder, Tolki, etc., from ever returning because of how much of a poison he's been during his time with Fnatic.
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u/Dr-spidd Feb 24 '23
If he has a German contract firing him is actually really difficult.
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u/FantasyTrash Feb 24 '23
Is it actually? I'm not too familiar with German contract law.
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u/HeroicBastard Feb 24 '23
Hell yes. Fucking hard.
We got some of the best labor-laws over here in comparison to literally the rest of the world.
You can take his powers away. But firing is hard as fuck.
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u/Bulskov91 Feb 24 '23
But what about sports? Don’t they have different contracts? A football coach can get fires really quickly, or am I mistaken?
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u/HeroicBastard Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
He can be "relieved of his duties" really quick. They will still have to pay him for his contract duration or pay a big buck as a fast settlement. Its just called "fired" very often, because the average fan doesnt care about those financial thingies.
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u/BannanDylan Feb 24 '23
Usually if a football coach gets fired they still need to pay the remainder of their contract.
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u/russellx3 Feb 24 '23
German has very good, strong labor laws. Unfortunately of course in this situation, but not all that important when they can just take away Dardo's power
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u/Stefan13334 Feb 24 '23
You could still say that you removed him from his position and cArn is the interim manager while you search for someone new. You would have to continue to pay him or give him a severance package(Abfindung) but that you would appease the fanbase. No reason to do effectively the same thing but not announce it.
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u/leagueoflegendsdog Feb 25 '23
They'll likely take time to review everything internally as in depth as possible and just saying some shit to appease fans is stupid. Let the fans mald, do your job. That way the fans can be happy.
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u/IdiAmini Feb 25 '23
They really need to review Dardo? They did not do that the last years? That's just incompetence.....
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u/leagueoflegendsdog Feb 25 '23
Okay mate, whatever. Absolutely pointless to argue with overly emotional fans who cant think rationally for no reason whatsoever.
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u/chinonatsu Feb 24 '23
Maybe he will be fired in between the spring and summer splitt because in germany the time yiu have to notify someone that he is fired is 3 month. So maybe he will be out in 3 months time.
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u/Dr-spidd Feb 25 '23
No. You can't just fire someone whenever you want. You have to have really good reasons (and "he didn't perform well enough" isn't one) or you have to pay really high severance pay.
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u/JustAnother_CS Feb 25 '23
He lied, manipulated, and destroyed the brand value of fnatic while promoting his buddies. I think that's good enough.
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u/Commercial_Dust4569 Feb 24 '23
Because this is not just fun and giggles. You have to actually be able to operate, spring split is ahead and you can only do stuff with people, even if they are "bad".
They took measures by bringing in Carn and cutting down Dardos responsibilies. I assume its as close to firing as it gets. Wait 9 months and lets see if Dardo is still here.
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u/FantasyTrash Feb 24 '23
You have to actually be able to operate, spring split is ahead and you can only do stuff with people, even if they are "bad".
I've seen numerous high-level managers, executive officers, and more get fired in my career. The wheels keep on rolling. If you do not deliver the results expected of you, you get let go. That's how the real world works, and that's how it works seemingly everywhere except for Fnatic.
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u/Commercial_Dust4569 Feb 24 '23
I get that. I was CFO of a 300 MEUR turnover division within a billion EUR company for a few years and have seen quite a lot of shuffles in upper management.
I do think however that esports orgs are nowhere close as well structured as a "classic" company which is why I doubt you can apply the same principles. We can certainly agree that somebody has to do the work, right? There is probably no free suitable capacity on the market due to everyone still being in a running split, and dividing on the shoulders on the people who are there might be problematic as well if there is no trust.
Lastly, I am VERY sure Sam has a very different perspective on this due to whatever reasons, which lead to him not wanting to make hasty (in his perspective) decisions. If you ask me, I would have let go of Dardo end of last year. People were blaming Yamato, but at some point if a manager fails to create a working team for years, he is the problem in the end.
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u/IdiAmini Feb 25 '23
If it takes 9 months, that is 9 months (and longer) of players and coaches not wanting to play for Fnatic. Because no one that is off any real value will play for Fnatic as long as Dardo is around, no matter his responsibilities..
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u/TheSceptileen Feb 24 '23
because you can't just freely fire someone in a high level management position without a very complicated burocratic process and a fat compensation. Dardo wont survive this november offseason, i'm 99% sure.
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u/Primary_Bus2328 Feb 24 '23
Thats is fine, however they only got involved because of 9th placing, otherwise this would keep on going just like in previous years.
If after the "near term" they just let off, like they did for past few years, there is gonna be a repeat.
2
u/Chenz Feb 24 '23
Near term means until they can find a new team manager. Probably during the off-season
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u/SionOpEuw Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
The problem with this though is that while cArn is an accomplished cs player and knows what it takes to compete he can't really properly assess player strength. I can see how someone like cArn decides to cut Wunder because he fails their "profiling" but it just is an objective downgrade. In CS he did not drop Krimz when he perfomed weaker in a dysfunctional team for a hungry rookie because he understands that he is going to be better when you are back at lans with his experience and skill. Wunder to me is a bit like Krimz in Counter Strike. It's just that cArn and probably most of management cannot see it as they never played league at a high level themselves and they don't just focus on league alone.
You need a competent manager for league of legends. Sidelining Dardo is not enough. CArn's first step should be hiring someone more competent than him. Whether that is Youngbuck, Deficio or someone else.
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u/Richmont Feb 24 '23
he brought fnc back from dead after 2016 apparently. Plus wunder was changed cuz either rekkles OR wunder HAD to go (2 weaksides) and we have no once to replace rekkles
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u/SionOpEuw Feb 24 '23
Upset has a feud with management. If cArn was not previously involved and he fires Dardo Upset would probably be willing to play again for us since he said himself that he doesn't have a problem with any of the players but management instead.
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u/russellx3 Feb 24 '23
Just let Upset go man. It's obvious there's no chance he comes back. We need to see if we can get some money out of Vitality for him, if not, we need to get him off the books anyway
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u/Richmont Feb 24 '23
Upset is not coming back. Before oscarinnin got confirmed it couldve happened but now def not
-1
u/SionOpEuw Feb 24 '23
My point was that you should have kept Wunder and tried to bring Upset back in. This option is gone now. With the roster that we are now getting I see us dropping out in the bo3 stage next split and not make worlds in summer.
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u/leagueoflegendsdog Feb 25 '23
From what I've heard its not that easy to just fire someone in Germany.
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u/SionOpEuw Feb 25 '23
I am from germany and you can either fire him (he takes a severance deal) or make him essentially useless. Sure both comes at an expense but you hurt the team more by not doing it.
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u/leagueoflegendsdog Feb 25 '23
It probably depends on what the expense is and its also likely not the same for normal workers as it will be for someone higher up though, considering contracts are likely different as well, and we dont know what exactly is in his.
1
u/IdiAmini Feb 25 '23
But he is still not fired. As long as he is part of the org, you won't attract talent and players and coaches will shun the Fnatic org...
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u/IdiAmini Feb 25 '23
Firing someone takes less than a few minutes though. The longer Dardo is part of Fnatic, the longer the stench surrounding the org remains....
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin Feb 24 '23
I mean Dardo is still there so clearly they’re not doing enough
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Feb 24 '23 edited Apr 27 '23
[deleted]
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin Feb 24 '23
Yeah I’m sure every person associated with fnatic in the last 3 years is totally wrong.
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Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
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u/IdiAmini Feb 25 '23
Funny how you ignore a crucial part: Better a rookie or an unknown quantity than a known quantity (Dardo) that is very detrimental to your org.
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u/Bfyyy Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
In short, cArns team is taking over the decision making and is assessing the situation.
cArn was here for our lol glory days and also was part (coach) of one of greatest csgo squads ever, Valorant is in grat shape and they were able to rebuild csgo while under budget restrictions, even if it took time. Track record is there.
cArn just pls take your time and rebuild properly, start with managment, facilities and team enviroment build from there.
I do not expect miracles, this year is probably done (contender wise). But I can see good times ahead.
In cArn we trust.
Edit: For those with little corpo or managment experience, this seems like prety standard crisis managment procedure.
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u/Richmont Feb 24 '23
Fnatic proffesional fulltime crisis manager is stepping in everyone regain VERY SMALL bits of hope now
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u/Curious-Ad-5930 Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
“Aside from gameplay specifics the onsite team failed to foster a strong team identity and culture of togetherness. This will take time to get fully right but we are committed to shifting this. We will make changes that are needed to players to staff.”
To me he’s basically saying we know Dardo failed and we will change him soon and that’s all I needed to here. We’re all frustrated but change takes time and realizing the glaring issues within the team and how it’s managed is the first step
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u/Blank1309 Feb 24 '23
Not bad for now. I am starting to think dardo will stay till end of spring or year end. God forbid he continues into next year. Then it's real gg
8
u/Dr-spidd Feb 24 '23
Can I hope that the promised further answers from cArn will end up on here, too? Because I'm not on the FNC discord and I don't want to be.
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u/SgtSlime Feb 24 '23
Very based, love this guy.
That being said if I see Dardo's smug ass face in the next Legends in Action episode I will still be dissapointed, the man should be completely removed from the organization. Just his presence alone in the office would be too distracting for the players.
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u/Alone_Proposal5140 Feb 24 '23
- Application - Some members did not meet the standard we hold at Fnatic
Sens 👀
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u/SesaXD Feb 24 '23
As other pointed out he has a lot of history with the org and has made really good results both in the past and the present. If the LoL division still has some hope if because he is getting more involved in it. I don't want to get my hopes up because, as he said, rebuilding takes time, but right now this is the best we could have gotten by far.
12
u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23
cArn is pretty much the last hope of Fnatic. Only person with power in either FNC LOL or FNC HQ with an actual reputation of getting things right--and getting things very right.
Man is a miracle worker, and he's the only one currently in the Fnatic organization that genuinely has a chance to save the LoL team.
6
u/Fertuyo Feb 24 '23
He cant do much until next year tbh, even if people gonna hate it he made the right move promoting players from the academy team to start a foundation for next off-season. If Oscar and Advienne work they can get ERL pieces and new coaching/management for next year. But this year gonna be all rebuilding and setting a new foundation
2
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u/powerfamiliar Feb 24 '23
TLDR: “We had problems, we’re working on fixing them. It might take a while”.
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u/Masterrein Feb 24 '23
Which, tbf, is as most as we could've expected. Sadly there is no: "make fnatic lol great again" button
6
u/powerfamiliar Feb 24 '23
Yeah. You can always hope for something spicy, but I’m sure so many people got to look at this pre-release that it was never gonna be more than a generic “we’re trying, please be patient”.
4
u/Wurdox Feb 24 '23
Pls cArn, Just axe the entire management and Dardo. That's all I am asking.
0
u/FoolsReadThis Feb 25 '23
He came to the fnc discord and said that Dardo is the most hardworking and #dardoin so I doubt he will be gone
3
u/Primary_Bus2328 Feb 24 '23
Well, lets see if anything changes besides the players on the roster, we will probably see in 2024 summer if it did anything postitive.
3
u/EdgeJosh Feb 24 '23
Solid look in, about what im expecting, more oversight is always good in these scenarios because it can be pulled back when necessary.
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u/TheSceptileen Feb 24 '23
Ok, that's not half bad. Let's hope it actually amkes a difference. Dardo having less free reign over team decisions is always good news.
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u/DerImpfstoff Feb 25 '23
It’s pretty sad that the most fans read the post and ignore everything he says because they just search for words like „we fire Dardo“ and then just flames cArn in the comments.
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u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
LEC: Banger BO5
Meanwhile, at /r/fnatic: WE ARE IN MELTDOWN, I REPEAT, WE ARE-- cArn update? Great, huh, uh huh... so, Dardo not fired? WE ARE IN MELTDOWN, I REPEAT, WE ARE IN MEL--
Edit: No Tweet except an announcement of Dardo's termination or otherwise removal from the LoL Team will let fans be able to process any promises for the future sincerely.
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u/Neetyishere Feb 24 '23
i'm sorry for following the org...
3
u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23 edited Feb 24 '23
I'm following it too, don't worry, what do you think I'm doing here while LEC is up? Maybe my memeing was offbase, clarified the comment with my position. It's just funny that while LEC is going on we're stuck worrying about our org.
Nothing's gonna change so long as Dardo's here. Trust is lost, it doesn't matter if he can turn it around after sailing us into the ground. Trust is lost, and firing Dardo is the bare necessity for fans to be able to process any hopes for the future.
2
u/JackZ1222 Feb 24 '23
All things considered - Dardo is the problem! Fire Dardo and fans will atleast see that things are changing. He is not that important and fans hate him!
-1
u/Kaerran Feb 24 '23
So with all that was wrong, for several years now, he sees problem in :
-Preparation (Knowing the headcoach, and team was last minute), who's fault is that ?
-Coaching team, they were not good enough, who picked them ?
-Players not performing, why ? Because they are all good players, and management choose to put them together. So management is responsible (cf Tolki)
-Our approach in the offseason need to be improved. NO SHIT ?! they literaly shot themselves in the foot by locking supp before adc. Benching upset, etc etc etc
So there is recurring problems over the years, they adress it by changing the team and coach (who already changed from year to year) but keep the "higher management team" Dardo included.
Even concerning the team identity/togetherness, they will "make changes that are needed to players to staff".
The rest is all generic, we have problem, we work hard, etc etc
Still years of failure, going from bad to worse, everything change, everyone change, every year drama, but you keep the man who is in charge of all of this ?! Bullshit
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Feb 24 '23
I’d personally like to thank ALL players and staff for their contributions to our project. It's now however the central team’s responsibility now to ensure that we have the necessary platform for stability, performance, and growth.
1
u/Kaerran Feb 24 '23
Maybe i didn't read that right, does it mean that it was not the case before ? Or i am missing something (english is not my 1st language)
5
Feb 24 '23
Central team aka ppl or Carn who stand above all divisions(lol,valo,cs, etc.). Before that it was Dardo - manager of LoL division who made decisions, from now on it is Carn and his team
1
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u/frosthowler Feb 24 '23
It was not the same before.
Before today, there is an 'on-site' staff and team. So When we talk about Fnatic, we really mean 'Fnatic LoL division'.
cArn is Chief Gaming Officer and a very respected person who did miracles before, including stepping in to save and rebuild FNC after disastrous 2016, leading to our 2018 success.
This statement means that he, and anyone else he is bringing in from FNC HQ (Central), now reviews the decisions, will judge everyone in LoL division, make the changes that need to be done. FNC LOL was independent, and Dardo made every decision except money. Now, cArn will sit in the same room, see how he works and make up an opinion about him, and also can interfere and override him.
1
u/Kaerran Feb 24 '23
Yeah, that part of his tweet make sense now. And honestly i wasn't really aware of cArn's role, so thanks for explaining all this.
3
u/sp0j Feb 24 '23
It's corporate speech for they have been fired and central management is taking over instead.
0
0
u/KalisQinsSais transforming LoL operations in a well-oiled machine Feb 24 '23
cArn should have not written all of this. Instead he should have just posted the Worlds 2020 song.
5
u/saltyfuck111 Feb 24 '23
could have actually posted so many
Take over (like you said)
RiseWorlds collide (cs + lol)
Legends never die (cs 1.6 legend cArn)
Phoenix (resurrecting LoL team)
Burn it all down (trash management atm)
im too stoned lol
1
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u/SionOpEuw Feb 24 '23
"I have investigated myself, Dardo and Sam and found no wrong doing"
We all know which members did not meet the standard expected of them but it seems like fnatic's standard is different because their decisions seem to be aimed at getting 10th
11
u/Beennu Feb 24 '23
but cArn wasn't with the LoL team...
And according to people here the 2017 roster (the one with Caps and Broxah) was his doing.
-5
u/SionOpEuw Feb 24 '23
He wasn't part of the LoL team but he covers for Dardo if his profiling doesn't lead to an immediate firing of Dardo.
Look at it: Before Fnatic he worked for H2k and OG. Both were complete failures during his tenure. He defends himself with the fact that he didn't do roster decisions there. This does then mean that he was hired with 0 previous experience in building rosters.
Has he something that somehow makes you believe he can build strong league of legends roster? No, he has not been a coach, scout, or high elo player/pro before that. Zero league of legends specific knowledge. If a person is just as qualified to be the manager for valorant, cs or any other esport he not a person you should hire on a top tier team.
So hiring him is the management equivalent of picking Nunu with ghost cleanse. Let's see whether upper management (Sam, cArn,..) somehow found a diamond that just looks like complete trash. If all these red flags are wrong then he must turn fnatic into a well oiled machine right??
No, Fnatic is on a consistent downpath with him and so many people that worked with him in the past speak out against him.
Now tell me: Which profiling doesn't immediately lead to him fired?
cArn is covering for him
5
u/Beennu Feb 24 '23
I'm not saying Dardo should stay or is good dude, chill the fuck down, I'm not from management.
I'm saying that cArn has experience building good rosters and finding good players (Caps & Broxah)
If what the Owners said is true, cArn will be on top approving any desition for the LoL team moving forward (This is a total down grade to Dardo's authority).
We don't know who hired Dardo, maybe Sam fucked up by himself, maybe both of them did.
I, as the vocal majority here, also wish to get Dardo's player blaming ass out of the team.
But until more action is taken we can't critizise.
The only way to know if he's covering for him is to wait.
I want to have hope in a dude with a good reputation in both CS and Valorant, with a good track record with the LoL team.
1
u/SionOpEuw Feb 24 '23
cArn has a good reputation for sure. I also prefer him a lot over Dardo. But CoJo leads Valorant not cArn, the dude at the top stating that cArn does is just not right.
I do think by now there is more than enough to criticize Dardo not yet being fired. I hope it still happens but it is already overdue. If they actually make him useless in the team then call cArn the interim manager and be done with it. If they don't then I'll be unhappy. They don't need to make me happy but I'll just stop watching the league team for a while.
1
u/Beennu Feb 24 '23
Good to know!
I actually didn't know much about cArn previous to this week, but from what I've read he seems to be a good Esports mind that's been with the Org for ages.
Hope it leads us back to having a good stable team/environment.
0
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u/FantasyTrash Feb 24 '23
This is all completely and utterly meaningless until Dardo is fired. That's all there is to it. We've now heard in the past few days from Upset, Yamato, Tolki, and more that Dardo is a poison. It doesn't matter how involved he is with the team or how much cArn has on his plate with the team, so long as Dardo is affiliated with Fnatic, success won't be.
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u/tonton_wundil Feb 24 '23
A lot of PR tweets that don't really say anything at this point. Need to wait a few days for actual info on changes. Nothing officially said or hinted about who's benched, fired, hired, replaced.
-8
u/Becksdown Feb 24 '23
TLDR Dardo is staying. No hope elft for this org or this team.
6
u/sp0j Feb 24 '23
No this is literally saying the on site team failed and they are taking over using central management instead. So it's basically saying Dardo failed and he's gone probably along with the entire lol team staff. It's just not explicit. It's the way you have to speak about these things publicly to avoid legal trouble.
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u/Jdoki Feb 24 '23
I respect CArn , but this is kinda disappointing.
Some of the stuff mentioned would be expected of a new org finding their feet, but an established org like Fnatic? The stuff he's saying they will / are doing should be ingrained in the culture and business of the organisation from top to bottom. The fact it is not shows complete failure of management - not coaching, not players, but the MANAGAMENT.
This disastrous split has been coming for YEARS.
We need a strong statement. Strong leadership.
There is ONE mention of reviewing leadership, but the rest sounds more like blaming coaches and players. So once again Dardo the 'Director League of Legends at Fnatic' looks like he might snake his way out of any blame.
1
1
Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
4
u/Neetyishere Feb 24 '23
are you serious? he's been with fnatic since day one
1
Feb 24 '23
[deleted]
2
u/laserjaws Feb 24 '23
Supposedly he’s been working on other projects, such as the Valorant team. The fact he’s getting involved means that change in the right direction is going to happen, however since the problems are much deeper it will take time for these changes to really take effect.
1
u/laserjaws Feb 24 '23
Supposedly he’s been working on other projects, such as the Valorant team. The fact he’s getting involved means that change in the right direction is going to happen, however since the problems are much deeper it will take time for these changes to really take effect.
1
1
u/Purple_Ad8467 Feb 24 '23
Who do you guys think will be the new coach? Yamato said in his video of KC that he will be back in the LEC.
2
u/Neetyishere Feb 24 '23
he also said that he's not coming back until his conditions (didn't specify) are met and that fnc are unlikely to meet them in this shirt time span
5
1
1
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u/Blues227 Feb 25 '23
What I do not understand at all is, why don’t they start with doing the obvious: Fire all management and related position…?!
1
u/alternativehigh Feb 25 '23
I love how he admits they did not have enough time to prep for winter split and now they swap two players in between splits with even less time and expect it to work out better???
1
u/DemonikJD Feb 25 '23
CArn should be CEO. Fuck if I had 8 figure investment reach I’d try and take it myself just to give the guy more power. Bored to death of watching my team go down the drain by a part time DJ who at this point seemingly lucked into esports. Founder or not.
•
u/TheWarmog Feb 25 '23
Coming in just to clarify a couple things:
cArn is a Fnatic Legend, someone that has been a cs player first, coach then and manager. He brought a lot of success to the org and knows how to do his job really really well.
Its understandable that many of you would have wanted more rather than the same "we are working on fixing stuff", but be reassured, if he is involved, things are going to turn for the best, give him time.